Panasonic G9

[raist3d]

That was a strange review. They keep listing all the areas where the G9 is superior to the E-M1 II, only to conclude with "Ultimately, we gave the EM-1 II a gold award, but the G9 walks home with a silver. Here's why: though the two are equally competitive, the Panasonic is playing catch-up to a camera released more than a year ago. And just being competitive is not enough to earn our top mark. But it is still certainly worth your consideration."

Yup, I called them on it actually. Their reply was that they consider both the time the camera is introduced to the market as an innovator and something else I forgot. My big issue is that if the camera competitor around is say, the D500, I can understand, but that's not how they explained their non-gold rating. I mentioned several important areas the G9 clearly beats the EM1 MKII and gave the example that someone buying a camera today, would look at an EM1 MKII with a gold award, but the G9 without... and that just doesn't make sense. The market hasn't changed that much and the G9 is cheaper.

I get a feeling that since the GH5 received a gold award, and the GH5s probably will too, they can't give too many golds to an outsider company like Panasonic. It's like these "Car of the Year" articles that some motoring magazines have, where the top prizes are always distributed evenly between the large manufacturers :ROTFL:

I told them the GH5s will probably receive a silver if not resuscitated Copper award - because clearly it's a camera "catching up" to the GH5/A7sII, "only 10 megapixels," - 14bit raw (again, "catching up") and no IBIS! :ROTF:

Oh well... it's the advertisers who pay for the fun, so I guess they should have a saying too. Just don't try to believe that these reviews are unbiased. They rarely are.

Not that I care. I used to be the guy with that Citroën that reviewers warned you about, and the only time I had a Mercedes Benz were when one tipped over in the Swedish moose test. It was a briliant car, at least for me, and I didn't encounter a single moose

- Ricardo

 

[raist3d]

Is the XT-2 considered as the major threat to the CL?

No, that would probably be an X-E3 or Xpro-2. But to be honest, they are in different market tiers, imho, just by the price alone. I think Leica realizes they got a kind of low volume customer going and a solid market there, so why try to get out of their profitable niche.

- Ricardo

 

[raist3d]

@Jono - everything I have read so far and seen so far of the G9 is that this is going to be indeed a truly fantastic camera. The only reason I am not buying one is that I want small.

In the ideal world, Panasonic would release a "GM9" packing as much as they could from that model into a GM5 size, but unfortunately, this is not happening :-(

A good source pointed to me they are going off models of the GH5 (notice G9 and GH5s) because, fairly enough, the GH5 has been such a big success for them, while the GM5 sold below expectations and I wonder where the GX85 falls.

It's painful to me because I would pick a "GM9" over anything else. Love the size for street photography. But if I was shooting weddings regularly, I would def. go for the G9. As much as I like the feature set and also speed of the EM1 MKII, Olympus is due for a major re-work for their UI.

- Ricardo

 

[biglouis]

Received my G9 on Tuesday. Had only one day of decent weather to shoot with.

I am planning on creating a short review.

LouisB

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

@Jono - everything I have read so far and seen so far of the G9 is that this is going to be indeed a truly fantastic camera. The only reason I am not buying one is that I want small.

In the ideal world, Panasonic would release a "GM9" packing as much as they could from that model into a GM5 size, but unfortunately, this is not happening :-(

A good source pointed to me they are going off models of the GH5 (notice G9 and GH5s) because, fairly enough, the GH5 has been such a big success for them, while the GM5 sold below expectations and I wonder where the GX85 falls.

It's painful to me because I would pick a "GM9" over anything else. Love the size for street photography. But if I was shooting weddings regularly, I would def. go for the G9. As much as I like the feature set and also speed of the EM1 MKII, Olympus is due for a major re-work for their UI.

- Ricardo

I'm totally with you on the GM9. I used the GM5 today at an event, for stills and video. The quality is so good that I consider buying another one, despite the high prices they sell for now.

You bought the GX850, didn't you. How is your experience with that camera?

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

The Panasonic 20mm F1.7 does not focus well on my OMD EM5 MKII and PenF if you do a single shutter actuation to capture (i..e press fully to AF-take shot). I have to do a half press first, wait for it to focus and then press fully to capture the shot.

The OMD EM5 MKII has a better rate if I fully press the shot with the PenF almost always missing the focus in some way even in good light. From what I have read, the PenF and OMD EM5 MKII are not the only Olympuses with this issue, and it's about time Olympus sorts this out. I haven't tried the EM1 MKII so maybe they fixed it on that model.

- Ricardo

I thought the 20mm f/1.7, at least the first generation, focused slowly with more or less any camera. It was more or less the first m4/3 prime, wasn't it?

 

[raist3d]

I thought the 20mm f/1.7, at least the first generation, focused slowly with more or less any camera. It was more or less the first m4/3 prime, wasn't it?

It was and the mark I and Mark II versions still focus slow. But the issue is not the slow focus, but the fact that these Olympus camera miss focus. Two different things.

- Ricardo

 

[raist3d]

I'm totally with you on the GM9. I used the GM5 today at an event, for stills and video. The quality is so good that I consider buying another one, despite the high prices they sell for now.

You bought the GX850, didn't you. How is your experience with that camera?

The GX850 is nice. It's fast. No AA. Has one feature the GM5 doesn't have which is ability to hold exposure by holding a button and continue auto-metering when released. This allows you to control exposure quickly. The GM5 doesn't have this (though could easily be added with a firmware upgrade).

My issue with both though is- no 20 MP PenF/GX8 sensor. That sensor has a something nice. The online photographer has pointed it out like 4-6 times by now, and I will have to agree

- Ricardo

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

The GX850 is nice. It's fast. No AA. Has one feature the GM5 doesn't have which is ability to hold exposure by holding a button and continue auto-metering when released. This allows you to control exposure quickly. The GM5 doesn't have this (though could easily be added with a firmware upgrade).

My issue with both though is- no 20 MP PenF/GX8 sensor. That sensor has a something nice. The online photographer has pointed it out like 4-6 times by now, and I will have to agree

- Ricardo

I think it was the dpr review that said that the wheel on the back and some other adjustment dial turn too easily, and sometimes by mistake. Have you had any problems with that?

 

[raist3d]

I think it was the dpr review that said that the wheel on the back and some other adjustment dial turn too easily, and sometimes by mistake. Have you had any problems with that?

Not particularly but....

After a short amount of months the GX850 wheel seems to have gotten dirty and now turning it does a "stutter." I had this happen on my GM5 but only after over a year to two of ownership. My Nikon 1 J4 never ever hard this problem, so this is clearly a build issue.

I do put the cameras in my pocket so pocket lint may not help, but again the Nikon 1 J4 never had this problem with its wheel.

On GX850 vs GM5 - I just like small and the GM5 is simply smaller. I do like tilt-articulated LCD's though. GX850 still has the extra "crisp" due to lack of AA.

Again- I wish for a GM9 so bad. I am cursed- I like small. :-(

- Ricardo

 

[jonoslack]

Okay - not much yet but here is a start

G9 12-60​

 

[jonoslack]

and a couple more with the 12-60
first two at 3200 ISO

 

[jonoslack]

One thing with Fuji though is AF will vary depending on the lens used. The new smaller primes are faster than say the bigger old primes. Still, to my surprise, I have been able to shoot in CDAF with the XF35 F1.4 which is one of the first three primes/lenses in the system.

I will say though the AF is definitively faster than the Leica CL, though I wouldn't call the Leica CL AF slow per se.



- Ricardo

Hi Ricardo
I shot the CL side by side with the X-T2 for 3 weeks in Crete (new 50 f2 and the 12-55 f2.8 zoom and 18-56 and 23 f2 on the CL) I thought that the CL was faster focusing - which really surprised me.

best

 

[jonoslack]

@Jono - everything I have read so far and seen so far of the G9 is that this is going to be indeed a truly fantastic camera. The only reason I am not buying one is that I want small.

In the ideal world, Panasonic would release a "GM9" packing as much as they could from that model into a GM5 size, but unfortunately, this is not happening :-(

A good source pointed to me they are going off models of the GH5 (notice G9 and GH5s) because, fairly enough, the GH5 has been such a big success for them, while the GM5 sold below expectations and I wonder where the GX85 falls.

It's painful to me because I would pick a "GM9" over anything else. Love the size for street photography. But if I was shooting weddings regularly, I would def. go for the G9. As much as I like the feature set and also speed of the EM1 MKII, Olympus is due for a major re-work for their UI.

- Ricardo

HI Ricardo
I can quite see your point - although in the last few days carrying the G9 around in one hand it doesn't feel large (and certainly not heavy).

I thought the dPreview rating pretty odd as well, I think that they've rather gone off the rails in terms of reviews generally - having had an EM1mkii, just off the top of my head:
G9 EVF is vastly superior
G9 focus joystick is a huge improvement over fiddling with the wheel (even if it could be faster)
G9 UI is in a different league from the Olympus

. . . and these are the sort of things which change a good camera into a great one.

best
Jono

 

[iiiNelson]

Hi Ricardo
I shot the CL side by side with the X-T2 for 3 weeks in Crete (new 50 f2 and the 12-55 f2.8 zoom and 18-56 and 23 f2 on the CL) I thought that the CL was faster focusing - which really surprised me.

best

Sort of OT again but why didn’t you test the 18-55/2.8-4 and the 23/2 Fuji along side the CL? Seems like the more natural comparison to me.

 

[jonoslack]

Sort of OT again but why didn’t you test the 18-55/2.8-4 and the 23/2 Fuji along side the CL? Seems like the more natural comparison to me.

Because I was expecting to keep the Fuji, and those were the lenses which seemed to be the best for my purposes.
To be honest it had never occurred to me that the Fuji wouldn't be much quicker than the CL - hence the surprise.

 

[Vivek]

I am not surprised. Leica has always come out on top and for very good reasons!

 

[raist3d]

Hi Ricardo
I shot the CL side by side with the X-T2 for 3 weeks in Crete (new 50 f2 and the 12-55 f2.8 zoom and 18-56 and 23 f2 on the CL) I thought that the CL was faster focusing - which really surprised me.

best

I shot the X-E3 side to side with the CL, and that was not my experience. Also the X-E3 can track with AF-C, I don't think the CL will have the same luck (no phase detection). Finally most reviews of the X-E3 have pointed out how fast the autofocus is, while the CL the AF speed has been described as not slow, but not as fast as better APS-C contemporaries.

One thing to keep in mind- a new firmware upgrade has come out for the X-T2 to make its AFC better, as the X-E3 introduced the latest algorithms for Fuji cameras.

Important caveat also on the comparison you made- I have noticed telephoto lenses in general, are trickier to AF than shorter lenses. And lenses with slower apertures tend to "focus better" because you have a less thin DOF plane.

I was using the CL with the new 18 prime, so I also needed to check a couple of other lenses, but my XF 27 F2.8 / X-E3 was clearly beating it.

- Ricardo

 

[raist3d]

HI Ricardo
I can quite see your point - although in the last few days carrying the G9 around in one hand it doesn't feel large (and certainly not heavy).

There is simply no comparison here The GM5 fits in a jacket pocket with a small Panny or Olympus prime without thinking about it. The G9 just doesn't do that

That said, yes, in its class the G9 is not bad per se, but it's decidedly bigger than the GM5, GX85, GX850. And that's fine. Unfortunately that's what I want for my street work. If I was shooting weddings regularly, I would def. have pre-ordered the G9 by now

This is the main reason I am sitting with an X-E3 now (though I get an extra bump up in IQ and Fuji lenses are great). But ultimately I see I prefer small. The minute a GM9 is announced, I am back. Even Fuji X-E3 with the new Fuji primes feels a bit bigger than a GM5 with the m43rds primes, except with the XF27 F2.8 which makes it a bit "Ricoh GRish."

I thought the dPreview rating pretty odd as well, I think that they've rather gone off the rails in terms of reviews generally - having had an EM1mkii, just off the top of my head:
G9 EVF is vastly superior
G9 focus joystick is a huge improvement over fiddling with the wheel (even if it could be faster)
G9 UI is in a different league from the Olympus

. . . and these are the sort of things which change a good camera into a great one.

best
Jono

Let's add a bit more to that too - Dual true UHS-II speed ports. AFC to full f20fps. Super resolution to 80 MP. IBIS to 6.5 stops. Vastly superior video of any camera in that price range. Cheaper! Honestly I don't get it.

What you said of the UI which I whole heartedly agree with to me is reason alone (in fact a key reason I have had such a love/hate relationship with the PenF).

Not that an EM1 MKII is a bad camera per se (well I have my UI issues), but I just can't understand why the G9 didn't get their Gold.


- Ricardo

 

[iiiNelson]

Because I was expecting to keep the Fuji, and those were the lenses which seemed to be the best for my purposes.
To be honest it had never occurred to me that the Fuji wouldn't be much quicker than the CL - hence the surprise.

Got it and understood. Thanks for the info.

I go back and forth on the 18-55mm + 16mm v. the 16-55mm lens myself. I also go back and forth with the 1.f/4 v f/2 versions of the 23 and 35. I’d love the speed but I lean towards not wanting to give up the WR, faster AF performance, or increased contrast in rendering.

Ehhh... I’ll probably just wait to see what comes of the X-H1... but the G9 does look unexpectedly good and I still have my G1... night and day difference in performance.