Digital medium format in 2024 – it's not dead!

[Paul Spinnler]

Ok, so we are closing in towards the end of the year.

Time to summarize what's coming in 2024 and analyze what this means for the high-end medium format market:

Phase One:
+ 70 XT tilt was just announced with MK II shutter assembly and 5 degrees of tilt (vs. 3 degrees on the 32, 40, 50 tilt XT variants)
+ 90 XT would be the next natural announcement, I would think sometime beg. of next year
+ XT XL fully integrated large tech shift cam (my hope is 22.5mm left and right, my hunch is 18mm left and right as to be differentiated from the Cambo product line – would be a shame)
+ XC – standalone availability as soon as China sales taper off
+ Digital back – probably 2025 due to lack of new sensors; XT XL, 70 and 90 should give P1 a good cadence for the year
+ Plus variant a possbility, but I would assume they'll aim for an IQ5, ideally with higher DR, better I/O, battery, on-board processing
+ XF: Let's just hope it is not discontinued

Hasselblad:
+ New 100 megapixel V mount back at an affordable price point – this should be a boon for Alpa and other open tech cam manufacturers

Arca:
+ There's this new compact mini-bellows camera – unsure about the value proposition
+ Mostly sees itself as an accessories manufacturer with main focus on tripod heads

Alpa:
+ Continued focus on expanding media presence and focused on new Hassy back (their IG is alive and they send out demo kits to youtubers, see the latest Peter McKinnon feature for example)
+ Focus on luxury segment - highest end tools and workmanship for a select clientele which appreciates beautiful cameras; you pay for a camera and a beautiful object

Linhof:
+ Is owned by one of the wealthiest Munich based real estate owners, so they'll continue to be here, but no innovations expected; still wouldn't wait forever to order a MT3000, there are no guarantees ...

Cambo:
+ No new developments beside JV with P1; they have the broadest manufacturing capabilities for tech cam stuff, including a whole range of helicals!

Sinar:
+ Still alive – selling new and refurbished P3s!

xxxxx Crop segment xxxxx:

Leica:
+ S4 in development, expected in 2025. First new medium format system since HX ...
+ "Ultimate Leica" – compatible with all lens families, M, SL, S vintage, and S next gen all in one body

Fuji:
+ Cementing the lead in crop MF and MF if you consider absolute sales volumes. Workflow, workflow, workflow. Best way to move up the ladder from Sony and CaNikon, price-wise outright affordable compared to the traditional tech cam approach

xxxxx Lenses xxxxx

Rodenstock:
+ No new lenses given lack of market viability; there's a 25mm 90IC lens in the drawer and at one point ruminations about an 70-SW, but would not expect anything to materialize

*****
Lens prices

1. Rodie HR: lenses have increased in price and used market is dry; ie people are holding onto their lenses still = stable prices
2. SK: Magic four expected to increase as economy improves given rarity; non-magic-four slightly lower in price, e.g. 47 digitar or rarely used teles

Nothing beats Rodie HR and SK late stage lenses in terms of high resolution and large image circle; even Fuji T/S has IC of 80 only. Interestingly enough, Rodie HR lenses are very rare on eBay still unlike the prior gen sironar digitals, for example.

There is no alternative to these lenses if you want to achieve the highest resolution imagery today incl. ability to shift and stitch large images for fine art applications.

*****

So this leaves us with P1 holding the torch, followed by Hassy's new back which is expected to drive sales of non P1 tech cams. Lens prices stable given lack of alternatives and continually increasing production costs.

It is a nice glimmer of hope that P1 is still investing in photography.

Fingers crossed for an IQ5!

 

[epforever]

Plus Leica is working on a mirrorless version of the S system (as you well know), and the S3 -- my main professional workhorse now -- is simply incredible. I find the difference between it and FF 35mm to be night and day.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Ah you are right. Yes, the S4 is in full development. It will be the latest new medium format digital lens linuep to come to market. I am hoping for APO summicrons and one Summilux type of lens, ideally 65mm so we can have that environmental portraiture end-all lens.

The S4 is also a 2025 thing in my understanding.

Meaning next year we'll just have the SL3 and some limited edition Leica cameras ofc. (think a Q3 in silver, etc.)

SL3 is the M11 sensor with some AF tricks from the latest Panasonic bodies which should help the SL overcome its weak spot of not being good in the AF department.

 

[alextsayun]

And what about Fuji GFX 100II ?

 

[Paul Spinnler]

The Fuji is out already and clearly is the market leader in DMF. I was looking at this more from the classical tech cam perspective, but you are right in the sense that it needs to be mentioned that Fuji is cementing its market leading position in the crop segment due to the combination of useability, price and innovative offerings like the tilt shift lenses.

In doing that it impacted the classic tech cam combo whereby a lot of pros are just priced out and or prefer the Fuji for workflow alone or appreciate the mere fact that the new Fuji has AF and is fast.

Personally nothing for me, but I understand the ratio of sold Fuji to P1 systems is in the high double digits to one …

This leaves the classical segment with digital backs, large stitching reserves, slow workflow and LCC need to the enthusiasts, fine art photographers and traditionally schooled high end commercial, especially architectural, photographers.

Ie those who don’t mind a slower approach and come from maybe a large format background (“4x5 days”) where shifting and tilting is second nature. In this way one can maybe distinguish architectural from fashion and other product photographers where I would think that primarily the first group stays loyal to the tech cam approach. People shooting people will be very enticed to drop the XF for a more modern Fuji, I guess.

This all said, the grand daddy of digital medium format, P1, is still doing new products, so that’s very encouraging!

 

[Ben730]

This leaves the classical segment with digital backs, large stitching reserves, slow workflow and LCC need to the enthusiasts, fine art photographers and traditionally schooled high end commercial, especially architectural, photographers.

Why do you think the workflow with a tech cam is slow?
Architecture/Interior, for example, is certainly not faster with a Fuji GFX + 30 T/S than with a Cambo WRS.
I can choose between Fuji and Cambo, I own both systems.

When it comes to speed in architectural/interior photography, I prefer the Cambo.

-If you know how, the LCC process is a very short thing and you can do it with one hand.
-I have to focus once a day because I almost always use the hyperfocal distance.
-The spirit levels on my WRS are accurate, so I don't have to readjust them in post-processing.
-The horizontal and vertical shift is independent, so I don't have to look for a compromise by rotating the lens.
-The Cambo WRS is quite small and handy compared to Fuji + T/S.
-I prefer the screen of the newer P1 backs over the Fuji.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Ben – its market facts. Don't confuse this with your own preferences. They are irrelevant when it comes to the market reality.

All tech cam sales and Rodenstock HR lens sales are down because of a change in market demand that's also to do with substitutes from the likes of Fuji.

Every single dealer I speak to ordered a ton of Fuji cameras on Day One of the release. They ordered them into stock to sell through. Fuji T/S with C1 correction is good enough for most applications short of fine art.

Ask CI how many they ordered and the conversations they are having with the "pros" – they revolve around workflow, total system cost, etc.

The classical tech camera is receding and nowhere selling as much as it used to ten years ago.

I personally couldn't touch a Fuji, but the reality is that for most pros this is a great and efficient solution.

Case in point can be seen in the forum, even. Diggles had the best of the best glass and sold everything to move to Fuji.

 

[jotloob]

Paul
can you please give more info about the ARCA SWISS new compact mini-bellows camera ? ? ?
I searched the net but could not find anyhing .
Thank you .

 

[DNN]

Lets not forget that Fuji announced the new GF 500mm is coming (soon?)
Don

 

[Paul Spinnler]

New camera from Arca Swiss: the Pico

Was at the Photo Salon in Geneva earlier today, and spied this new camera from Arca Swiss. The prototype showed a modified Canon 24 TSE and GFX. The lens has its Shift element removed and placed on the rear standard. Tilt remains on the Canon lens. I forget if there is an additional tilt...

www.getdpi.com

Here you go

 

[JeffK]

@Paul Spinnler – Thanks for all the work in gathering that info for an end of year post. All the best over the holidays.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Who said I am on holidays

 

[daz7]

I just wish for the Sinar to resurrect with a 100mp multishot backlit sensor, output to the harddrive direct, and a hdmi connector for external screens. Yaaas.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Well on Sinar. MacConsult, a Munich based IT service and consultancy firm, bought their inventory as the owner is also very much into photography and it is now run as a side business with low overhead from within MacConsult.

They have manufacturing agreements with Swiss firms to produce and service all P3 components and the camera which is nice. They also have, believe it or not, the Leica S007 sensor back thingie in stock!

Its like 6k or so ... and has the Leica CMOS color science. But that's about it.

P3 is awesome as a macro setup. Added Sinar info on top.

 

[4x5Australian]

Why do you think the workflow with a tech cam is slow?
Architecture/Interior, for example, is certainly not faster with a Fuji GFX + 30 T/S than with a Cambo WRS.
I can choose between Fuji and Cambo, I own both systems.

When it comes to speed in architectural/interior photography, I prefer the Cambo.

-If you know how, the LCC process is a very short thing and you can do it with one hand.
-I have to focus once a day because I almost always use the hyperfocal distance.
-The spirit levels on my WRS are accurate, so I don't have to readjust them in post-processing.
-The horizontal and vertical shift is independent, so I don't have to look for a compromise by rotating the lens.
-The Cambo WRS is quite small and handy compared to Fuji + T/S.
-I prefer the screen of the newer P1 backs over the Fuji.

Everything that @Ben730 said is true for me, too!

 

[4x5Australian]

Ben – its market facts. Don't confuse this with your own preferences. They are irrelevant when it comes to the market reality.

All tech cam sales and Rodenstock HR lens sales are down because of a change in market demand that's also to do with substitutes from the likes of Fuji.

Every single dealer I speak to ordered a ton of Fuji cameras on Day One of the release. They ordered them into stock to sell through. Fuji T/S with C1 correction is good enough for most applications short of fine art.

Ask CI how many they ordered and the conversations they are having with the "pros" – they revolve around workflow, total system cost, etc.

The classical tech camera is receding and nowhere selling as much as it used to ten years ago.

I personally couldn't touch a Fuji, but the reality is that for most pros this is a great and efficient solution.

Case in point can be seen in the forum, even. Diggles had the best of the best glass and sold everything to move to Fuji.

The market sales, IMO, reflect the up-front difference in purchase prices and, crucially, the general lack of awareness of the all-round advantages and benefits of technical cameras.

Rod

 

[diggles]

Once you become proficient with a system, your pace of work can vary, be it fast or slow, regardless of whether you're using a tech cam or a Fuji camera with TS lenses. It depends on the task at hand.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

The market sales, IMO, reflect the up-front difference in purchase prices and, crucially, the general lack of awareness of the all-round advantages and benefits of technical cameras.

Rod

Fuji is nothing for me and tech cam beats it any day of the week.

It is probably a combination of a generational shift and the steep entry price of new gear. Rodenstock HR new prices are too high and the younger generation doesnt have the film photography background, I guess.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Isn't it nice to see that Phase is still alive and bringing out new products?

70 XT tilt, 90 XT tilt to come and then XT XL hopefully soon enough?

 

[4x5Australian]

It is probably a combination of a generational shift and the steep entry price of new gear. Rodenstock HR new prices are too high and the younger generation doesn't have the film photography background, I guess.

Who needs new gear? Much of my technical camera kit was bought used.

As has been discussed recently, the Schneider Apo-Digitar 5.6/35XL, Apo-Digitar 5.6/47XL, and Rodenstock Grandagon-N 4.5/60mm are very good lower-cost alternatives to those new lenses.

Technical cameras – getting started. wide-angle lenses and color cast | The GetDPI Photography Forum

And there are many capable lenses of longer focal length.

It seems to me that there is a substantial cohort of photographers familiar and fluent with 4x5 cameras who are, as I was, of the mistaken belief that technical cameras and digital backs are far too complicated and expensive to even consider purchasing, who would benefit from being introduced to some of the older digital backs. Film prices continue to rise, and many photographers would appreciate being shown that they can use the same approach and movements with a digital back that now costs less than $5,000, or even half that.

Here's a recent demonstration of how capable older gear can be: Architectural photography by Randhir Singh was exhibited last year at the Museum of Modern Art in New York. Singh photographs using an Arca-Swiss Rm3di, Schneider lenses and 39Mp P45+ back.

Project of Independence by Randhir Singh - DT Photo (photo-digitaltransitions.com)

The Project of Independence - Randhir Singh

Rod