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Growing concern over availability of XCD (older style) and New V lenses
- Thread starter Paul2660
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MGrayson
Subscriber and Workshop Member
An excellent reason to buy into a system only when it does what you want it to do and not before. I have all the X lenses I want, and if the line is discontinued tomorrow, I will shoot happily with it for some time to come. As for Hasselblad's imminent demise, they survived the Stellar. Doesn't mean they're immortal, but they've lived through worse than this.
I strongly hope they get their act together with respect to the dealers. I've had a very hard time getting support for anything I've purchased directly from Hasselblad or Leica, and very good support from the dealers from whom I purchased their products.
Matt
I bought the 38 and 55 together with the X2D soon after launch. When I went to visit my Hasselblad dealer in Vienna last month, on an unrelated matter, he had a new 90 available which I could buy if I'd wanted to (I did not since have the 80 already). Did not realise the lenses were in such short supply.
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
Its kind of brazen (Hasselblad DJI online shop contact section), basically dealers should do first line customer support and handholding for technical nature things and ONLY if you cannot find any answer, etc, if its something completely different ... you should check FAQ first, website, etc. and then you MAY contact them.
If they manipulate supply chain to maximize profits and then on TOP send customers to dealers for the "annoying part" (technical product info) while having no problems with the "fun part" (1 day shipping here on our website) its kind of revolting.
The dealer I spoke to said literally they do no marketing for Hasselblad anymore based on the supply chain issue and prefer selling Fuji stuff as a result.
That's such a dumb move from Hasselblad. The way to do it is to run the webshop in parallel, do zero marketing for it and send inventory as a priority to the dealer network. In return, dealers show them they do marketing things (events, website content, youtube videos) and everyone would benefit.
The strategy seems to be to send new product to youtube influencers and channels and hope that's enough to care for the big dealers (B&H) and sell online.
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sjg284
Active member
Leica at least took some sort of middle ground approach where they partnered with / bought out? some of the big dealers in major US cities, continued to supply the independent dealers, and then finally spun up their own e-commerce website. I still end up buying most of my Leica through my local independent dealer.
It's hard to determine if the dealer/direct issue is intentional or simply a result of incompetence on the part of DJI/HB. In reviewing the dealers on the HB website, there are 6 listed for the entire US, yet we know there are many more than that. Whereas, the listed dealer count in the UK - a country 1/5th the population of the US - is 25. One can easily theorize that DJI is looking to maximize profits and eliminate the middle man. If that's a corporate decision, then why so many UK dealers? Perhaps, as is often the case, reality is a bit of both.
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
Leica took a very differentiated approach looking at each city individually. In major cities they run their own show on top of maybe a "Leica corner" in existing dealer shops and in minor locations they either did JVs or settled for the "Leica corner". In some cases, when they had multiple dealers in one minor location – e.g. Constance or Stuttgart – they made an offer for a new shop to be run by the existing dealer but with a rather onerous profit split.
One dealer I spoke to in one of these contested minor cities told me that the offer was not attractive, so they let the other dealer run the new local Leica shop, but then Leica takes a lot of the profits which come out of it.
One dealer I spoke to in one of these contested minor cities told me that the offer was not attractive, so they let the other dealer run the new local Leica shop, but then Leica takes a lot of the profits which come out of it.
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Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
My understanding of the current market dynamics are that all players (incl. P1) are focusing on increasing sales in the US as EU is hammered economically and US is the easiest to gain leverage (ie fulfilling growth targets this year) out of given size and structure of the market with a few key cities and rich areas you need to cover + combined with the sheer amount of potential customers.
I think some managers are convinced that all you need is youtube and IG/TikTok presence and a sleek webshop + B&H type megastores these days ... I mean when the new Hasselblad stuff comes out you have even a "The Verge" review of it, including a dozen Youtube reports on day of launch. Some managers seem to think classic distribution networks are less important it seems.
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sjg284
Active member
I've complained about this elsewhere but its a shame that we've completely lost professional camera review sites.
That is, written word reviews, with numerical ratings across multiple categories, plus a-vs-b side by side compares to other products.
It's now a niche, but a niche you could probably get people paying $100/year for. There's plenty of guys doing glorified blogs without reviews and collecting decent money via Patreon, etc.
Instead we have YouTube reviewers who love every product they get sent to them by manufacturers, especially if they get a free trip out of it.
You really have to read between the lines to even hear a few cons.
That is, written word reviews, with numerical ratings across multiple categories, plus a-vs-b side by side compares to other products.
It's now a niche, but a niche you could probably get people paying $100/year for. There's plenty of guys doing glorified blogs without reviews and collecting decent money via Patreon, etc.
Instead we have YouTube reviewers who love every product they get sent to them by manufacturers, especially if they get a free trip out of it.
You really have to read between the lines to even hear a few cons.
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
Its horrible, fully agree. And even the influencer thing they optimize. Have you seen the million SL3 reviews at launch? Everyone was flown in to the same location, then shoved into this car museum and then maybe a bit of a walkabout in Wetzlar or around the campus. The result is like the phone reviews when the new Iphone comes out. You have Marques and the other influencers and all say the same and then it comes down to entertainment factor and how well the sound clips are cut into the video effects of the review. It all becomes one sauce.
On the SL3: And once you've been flown in – you are not gonna be critical ofc. Its not like a manufacturer will tell you anything about "You cannot do this or say this", but effectively what will happen is that if you posted a scathing review of a feature you'd get blacklisted for the next launch event.
There's only Diglloyd left ... he's not getting flown in anywhere.
On the SL3: And once you've been flown in – you are not gonna be critical ofc. Its not like a manufacturer will tell you anything about "You cannot do this or say this", but effectively what will happen is that if you posted a scathing review of a feature you'd get blacklisted for the next launch event.
There's only Diglloyd left ... he's not getting flown in anywhere.
sjg284
Active member
SL3 thing was ridiculous.
I think what was telling was despite the generally puffy reviews you had petapixel dumping on the AF & battery, and even good old Jono had a lot of hemming & hawing in his write-up on the AF.
It's fine if SL3 AF is not up to Sony/Canon/Nikon standards. But then don't pump how much PDAF has improved the AF.
I'm still left wondering just how good/bad it is.
Sometimes we talk about Leica SL AF in terms of being X years behind Sony, but if it never converges.. and there's use cases that it can never satisfy, then I don't think that's the correct framing.
I think what was telling was despite the generally puffy reviews you had petapixel dumping on the AF & battery, and even good old Jono had a lot of hemming & hawing in his write-up on the AF.
It's fine if SL3 AF is not up to Sony/Canon/Nikon standards. But then don't pump how much PDAF has improved the AF.
I'm still left wondering just how good/bad it is.
Sometimes we talk about Leica SL AF in terms of being X years behind Sony, but if it never converges.. and there's use cases that it can never satisfy, then I don't think that's the correct framing.
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
In any case. Going back to the topic at hand – looks like Hasselblad / DJI is playing dirty with the small independent dealers.
1-day (or 20 days) shipping in web shop and prolonged (sometime in May) / unknown delivery times on the dealer side is a strategic move and "unfair".
Creates lost business for independents, advantages the big shops and ultimately Hassy / DJI who push customer education to the dealers.
Wonder if they make changes. Its almost like with cinema movies. If you can stream it on Apple TV simultaneously to a cinema release, smaller cinema operators will suffer.
1-day (or 20 days) shipping in web shop and prolonged (sometime in May) / unknown delivery times on the dealer side is a strategic move and "unfair".
Creates lost business for independents, advantages the big shops and ultimately Hassy / DJI who push customer education to the dealers.
Wonder if they make changes. Its almost like with cinema movies. If you can stream it on Apple TV simultaneously to a cinema release, smaller cinema operators will suffer.
Even though I generally do not agree to Paul's assumption that Hasselblad is now chinese and DJI, I do agree with him that recently, DJI seems to have taken over a significant command over the distribution of HB products. Just look at all those DJI/HB prestige stores in China, other far east countries, and now one in Germany. Even B&H has a significant drone compartment, and I wonder if this is the reason why they will get HB products in preference. Meanwhile, back in Göteborg, it seems as if Hasselblad is unsure what to do about their dealer list. This is a weird situation when considering that HB apparently can sell more stuff than they can produce. Why would DJI try so hard to improve on this when even now, they cannot meet demand?
Personally, I would have no problem with an internet based direct distribution system, provided that it is globally, and includes swift returns and repairs. And that the marketing is top notch so as to reach the target clients worldwide. But for now, none of this is existent.
It really seems as if would be advisable for dealers to become DJI drone dealers, in order to get into a better position to actually get HB products. Crazy, when you think about it.
Personally, I would have no problem with an internet based direct distribution system, provided that it is globally, and includes swift returns and repairs. And that the marketing is top notch so as to reach the target clients worldwide. But for now, none of this is existent.
It really seems as if would be advisable for dealers to become DJI drone dealers, in order to get into a better position to actually get HB products. Crazy, when you think about it.
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
I missed that there's a DJI / Hasselblad store now in Germany. But you are right, here's the launch video from a few months ago. They mention it is the first (in a shopping mall, sandwiched between the Body Shop and Levis), so more may come. I also saw that there's now one in Munich, although not sure if there's a Hasselblad section in the back already. Wouldn't be surprised to see a rollout in London, Berlin, Paris, Rome, etc.
A young influencer type with a Fuji rangefinder camera around his neck is lauding the store as a dream place to nerd out on gear. Seems like the concept is to be a carbon copy of the Apple store's design with grey, wood elements. They just copied Apple's approach to the T.
The Hasselblad corner comes at the end of the store behind the drone section.
Seeing this, the strategy and consumer focus becomes clearer and clearer. This is not the kind of store where you discuss Rodenstock or SK glass compatibility with the CFV100c. The twenty something underpaid sales clerk probably never heard of Schneider Kreuznach lenses. Similar to Leica, the prosumers walks in here to buy a premium compact camera, similarly like you'd buy an M.
It looks more like a place where you grab the Hasselblad product and a drone before your next travel trip after having seen the youtube review and the young sales person has received a crash course on the photo product range a week before starting.
Next step is to fully integrate drones / camera sales in self-branded stores in key locations; the Moon landing is featured as a nice brand asset in the back.
Also looks like DJI is in the driver seat given the stores are called DJI / Hasselblad and drones are front and centre towards the steet. Even the product info tables with modular pricing options look like iPhone pricing signs in Apple stores where you see the different pricing tiers sorted by storage tier. Quite brazen copying there.
The female store rep that's interviewed mentions that they have representatives from DJI management present - no mention of anyone from Hasselblad out of Sweden. All employees, even those at the back standing in the Hasselblad corner, wear DJI branded polos. Sometimes, with store-in-store, you will have clerks wearing shirts with different brands to signal who to talk to, but looks like the Hasselblad world is now fully integrated into the DJI world in terms of the employees and sales concept in the store.
People featured in the store are video production company owners and the female store rep also mentions they have invited a lot of influencers.
Independent legacy Hasselblad dealers in such a constellation are of course welcome to place orders of their customers - so they are a sort of "nice to have" in the overall strategy , but that's it. The writing is on the wall of whats next and where the focus lies.
From this perspective it looks like DJI wants to fully own the physical sales channel like Leica, go full on consumer, and only refrains from stepping on toes where market power is still seen as too strong - e.g. B&H. The smaller protagonists are slowly squeezed out via supply chain manipulation.
That's a rather big shift and nothing short of an existential threat to the classic pro independent dealer segment and DJI comes full circle with its acquisition and re-positioning of Hasselblad as a lifestyle luxury camera brand in the style of Leica. There was a time where you needed to make an appointment with a specialist dealer outside the city to get shown a H system if you wanted to see one in action; now you grab a camera on Saturday at your local mall in between a Starbucks break and some strolling clothes shops.
I've owned a H system back in the late 2000s and the sales rep personally drove to my home to give me a multi-hour introduction into my newly acquired H50 camera system. That now looks like a distant memory from a different era (same sales rep went on to work for P1, got fired last year, and now sells solar panels).
The only thing we as customers can do is directly support CI and the likes and not buy from the webshop or walk-in shop in the next mall. I will never. buy anything in an apple-esque setting where the employee has no clue about what they are selling and where I am on top upsold on a 800 buck drone that gets replaced next year with the next gen model anyhow.
Sadly, this is precisely what I expected to happen once DJI acquired Hasselblad.
Given P1's price point and them being a B2B player first its unlikely that we'll ever see a P1 store besides a Levi's store.
A young influencer type with a Fuji rangefinder camera around his neck is lauding the store as a dream place to nerd out on gear. Seems like the concept is to be a carbon copy of the Apple store's design with grey, wood elements. They just copied Apple's approach to the T.
The Hasselblad corner comes at the end of the store behind the drone section.
Seeing this, the strategy and consumer focus becomes clearer and clearer. This is not the kind of store where you discuss Rodenstock or SK glass compatibility with the CFV100c. The twenty something underpaid sales clerk probably never heard of Schneider Kreuznach lenses. Similar to Leica, the prosumers walks in here to buy a premium compact camera, similarly like you'd buy an M.
It looks more like a place where you grab the Hasselblad product and a drone before your next travel trip after having seen the youtube review and the young sales person has received a crash course on the photo product range a week before starting.
Next step is to fully integrate drones / camera sales in self-branded stores in key locations; the Moon landing is featured as a nice brand asset in the back.
Also looks like DJI is in the driver seat given the stores are called DJI / Hasselblad and drones are front and centre towards the steet. Even the product info tables with modular pricing options look like iPhone pricing signs in Apple stores where you see the different pricing tiers sorted by storage tier. Quite brazen copying there.
The female store rep that's interviewed mentions that they have representatives from DJI management present - no mention of anyone from Hasselblad out of Sweden. All employees, even those at the back standing in the Hasselblad corner, wear DJI branded polos. Sometimes, with store-in-store, you will have clerks wearing shirts with different brands to signal who to talk to, but looks like the Hasselblad world is now fully integrated into the DJI world in terms of the employees and sales concept in the store.
People featured in the store are video production company owners and the female store rep also mentions they have invited a lot of influencers.
Independent legacy Hasselblad dealers in such a constellation are of course welcome to place orders of their customers - so they are a sort of "nice to have" in the overall strategy , but that's it. The writing is on the wall of whats next and where the focus lies.
From this perspective it looks like DJI wants to fully own the physical sales channel like Leica, go full on consumer, and only refrains from stepping on toes where market power is still seen as too strong - e.g. B&H. The smaller protagonists are slowly squeezed out via supply chain manipulation.
That's a rather big shift and nothing short of an existential threat to the classic pro independent dealer segment and DJI comes full circle with its acquisition and re-positioning of Hasselblad as a lifestyle luxury camera brand in the style of Leica. There was a time where you needed to make an appointment with a specialist dealer outside the city to get shown a H system if you wanted to see one in action; now you grab a camera on Saturday at your local mall in between a Starbucks break and some strolling clothes shops.
I've owned a H system back in the late 2000s and the sales rep personally drove to my home to give me a multi-hour introduction into my newly acquired H50 camera system. That now looks like a distant memory from a different era (same sales rep went on to work for P1, got fired last year, and now sells solar panels).
The only thing we as customers can do is directly support CI and the likes and not buy from the webshop or walk-in shop in the next mall. I will never. buy anything in an apple-esque setting where the employee has no clue about what they are selling and where I am on top upsold on a 800 buck drone that gets replaced next year with the next gen model anyhow.
Sadly, this is precisely what I expected to happen once DJI acquired Hasselblad.
Given P1's price point and them being a B2B player first its unlikely that we'll ever see a P1 store besides a Levi's store.
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There is already one in Birmingham (England not Alabama).
It will be a real shame if the future of the brand is to be something sold only through these kind of shops and/or online but it does appear to be heading that way.
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
Oh ... so it seems like I missed a DJI's European store rollout starting end of last year. Insane. Indeed a big store in Birmingham ... opened in Sep. '23. So they starting doing this end of last year which explains why they are in parallel slowly chocking supply for independents where they need to share a profit cut. They ofc also need to drive business into their own stores where they can cross-sell drones and to pay for the rents, etc.
In Switzerland I think this would qualify as a breach of competition law if you can demonstrate that they purposefully choke supply to gain market share despite having contracts in place with stores for delivery. Especially if the supplying to third parties also happens in an inequal manner – e.g. B&H not being affected due to market power.
Phase also did that with the X shutters back when they launched the XT. For more than two years your only option to get X shutters was with their XT lenses which had a severe impact on tech cam sales of Arca / Alpa.
I now get why the dealer I spoke to almost had a boycotting / really angry tone towards Hasselblad. He said straight up that they don't push them anymore after this new strategy was put in place, focusing on Fuji and CaNikon instead given the illoyal behaviour of DJI vs. sometimes decades old dealer relationships.
Sad, but entirely predictable from DJI.
In Switzerland I think this would qualify as a breach of competition law if you can demonstrate that they purposefully choke supply to gain market share despite having contracts in place with stores for delivery. Especially if the supplying to third parties also happens in an inequal manner – e.g. B&H not being affected due to market power.
Phase also did that with the X shutters back when they launched the XT. For more than two years your only option to get X shutters was with their XT lenses which had a severe impact on tech cam sales of Arca / Alpa.
I now get why the dealer I spoke to almost had a boycotting / really angry tone towards Hasselblad. He said straight up that they don't push them anymore after this new strategy was put in place, focusing on Fuji and CaNikon instead given the illoyal behaviour of DJI vs. sometimes decades old dealer relationships.
Sad, but entirely predictable from DJI.
found it. They state 2 more to come this year, London, Regent street, and Manchester, Market street.
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