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IQ3 80 vs 60

Just sold my IQ4 150 back and looking to go back to CCD since I've always been a CCD boy. Anyone have any example photos between the 60 and the 80? I used to shoot a p65+ for many years and absolutely loved it.

Looking for the back that looks the most natural. Looking to do artwork, long exposures may be somewhat longer sometimes, so that is why I would consider the 3 80 and not the 2 80.

Any comments or comparisons would be great!
 

JeffK

Well-known member
I’ve heard the 80 has more colour cast issues. Since you loved the p65 try and find one
 

Alkibiades

Active member
80 MP backs have much stronger color cast than 60MP backs becouse they have microlenses. If you want to use schneider wide lenses like 28xl or 35 xl the 60MP will be the choice.
I still own a Leaf 80 MP back and like very much the neutral colors.
it is not the best back for long exposures, maybe 60MP are doing better. My old 39 MP back have great results with longer exposures and have the same pixel density like the 60 MP back ( different chip size).
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Neither back is going to be good for longer exposures, than around 30 seconds maybe 1 minute. That may be long enough.

The IQ160, has the same sensor as the P65+, so results should be the same, however I would stay with the IQ160 for the better LCD, (ability to see the image after the shot).
Live view will be next to useless, unless indoors and under very limited lighting. See the IQ380 Live View post in this forum. Same things apply.

I used both the IQ160 and IQ180, never saw much color cast issues on the 180 with tech lenses on center, when shifted yes. But same as the IQ160, both need strong LCC corrections.

Paul
 
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Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
The 60mp and 80mp digital backs from Phase One initially provided good quality long exposure for one to two minutes. This changed for the 60mp model with the IQ260, which allows that same quality for much longer periods of time (at least 30-40 minutes). The 80mp models did not acquire this ability until the IQ380.

So when it comes to long exposure, for best results:

IQ160 - one to two minutes max
IQ260/IQ360 - much longer, 30-40 minutes or more
IQ180/280 - one to two minutes max
IQ380 - much longer, 20-30 minutes or more

As always with long exposure, YMMV (depending upon ambient temps, etc).


Steve Hendrix/CI
 

Alkibiades

Active member
I use my CCD back only in good and controled light, not too dark and not too much contrast. In this condition the CCD backs are really very good.
At low ligt and night shots any Sony Cmos back is simply superior.
 

Ray Harrison

Well-known member
Steve published an article over at Capture Integration you may find interesting, at least as far as long exposure might be concerned. It’s a longer form version of what he noted above.

 

Paul2660

Well-known member
As I one time owner owner of a IQ260, I can clearly state that I found mine would not do very good at the longer exposures past 2 -3 minutes. Maybe in the dead of winter it might make 15 minutes. But I quickly realized that it was not going provide the results I had hoped for.

The 30 minute results were nothing like the files from the P45+ Which IMO is really the only CCD back that can handle a long exposure and give a useable result.

Paul
 

tcdeveau

Well-known member
Long exposure and CCDs is definitely a “YMMV” situation. I was always happy with the results I got from the H4D-40, I used the 256 sec max shutter speed frequently (yes yes apples and oranges with HB and P1, I know).
 

huyu

Active member
Sorry for newbie question. Do you need a special ND filter to do this kind of long exposure (let's say 10-20mins) -- The max ND filter is only 10stop? For example in daylight conditions, I exposure a scene with ISO 64, F8, 1/10 secs. Put ND 10stop on, then the speed would be somewhere around 100secs?
Or the back can handle itself?
 

JeffK

Well-known member
Sorry for newbie question. Do you need a special ND filter to do this kind of long exposure (let's say 10-20mins) -- The max ND filter is only 10stop? For example in daylight conditions, I exposure a scene with ISO 64, F8, 1/10 secs. Put ND 10stop on, then the speed would be somewhere around 100secs?
Or the back can handle itself?
you can buy up to 22 stop I think. I've got 3,6,10,15. And you can stack them too. When you buy an ND filter there's usually a card that shows you what you should adjust your exposure to based on the number of stops. There's also long exposure apps you can download. LEE filters makes a free app.

On the IQ3 and IQ4, there's a setting to enter in your ND filter value and the back will adjust the exposure for that. Less necessary on the IQ4 if you're using frame averaging.
 

chrismuc

Member
Hmm, I had the P65+ and I have the IQ180. I find the two Dalsa sensors very similar in any respect, and with both, the maximum exposure time is IMO 8 seconds at base ISO, above the file quality deteriorates on pixel level, doesn’t make much sense to use it. Day and night difference to CMOS.
 

huyu

Active member
you can buy up to 22 stop I think. I've got 3,6,10,15. And you can stack them too. When you buy an ND filter there's usually a card that shows you what you should adjust your exposure to based on the number of stops. There's also long exposure apps you can download. LEE filters makes a free app.

On the IQ3 and IQ4, there's a setting to enter in your ND filter value and the back will adjust the exposure for that. Less necessary on the IQ4 if you're using frame averaging.
Thanks for the info. But when you add too many filters then the quality might be reduced? I've never taken any longer than 30sec. And only seen images that are about 180-200sec max. Also wonder how you keep the battery surviving such long?
 

JeffK

Well-known member
Thanks for the info. But when you add too many filters then the quality might be reduced? I've never taken any longer than 30sec. And only seen images that are about 180-200sec max. Also wonder how you keep the battery surviving such long?
start with freshly charged batteries.
 

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
Long exposure and CCDs is definitely a “YMMV” situation. I was always happy with the results I got from the H4D-40, I used the 256 sec max shutter speed frequently (yes yes apples and oranges with HB and P1, I know).
I would agree with this. The newer cmos sensors will produce much cleaner long exposures. But often, the degree of acceptable detail and noise/grain in a photographic image will vary, user to user, scene to scene, condition to condition. In my view, the IQ260 and IQ380 produce images at longer exposures that are acceptable in some situations, again depending upon your tolerance for present noise/grain and desire for absolute detail.

In the right circumstances they can produce usable images, in the very least they are much more usable than any other pre-cmos IQ generation digital backs. I would add that, per Paul's notation, P45+ images also have to be in that same category as modern cmos, in terms of noise free long exposures - extraordinary. Every digital back model has their own assembly of strengths and weaknesses.


Steve Hendrix/CI
 
And to be fair, the IQ-260 was launched in March 2013 - almost 10 years ago. Assuming back today operates to the exact specs as it did the day it left factory, my personal standard for what a clean long exposure today vs what my standard was 9 years ago has changed considerably.
 

JeffK

Well-known member
@huyu totally fine to use multiple filters. There may vignette issues if you’re using circular filters. I regularly have 3x100mm square filters on. ND, ND grad, yellow or orange - when shooting with the achromatic.
 

huyu

Active member
out of topic but anyone has the heat issue on CCD back? My 380 gets hot after 4-50 shots (tethered shooting)...well, hotter than my IQ100 as usual...
 
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