It is Finally Here, 907x 100c

[mristuccia]

I have just checked the size of an FFF file against its DNG export done through Phocus:

FFF file size: 81.3 MB
DNG file size: 73.1 MB

A demosaiced file is at least three times bigger, as there are 3 x 16-bit color words per pixel instead of only one. The exported TIFF 16 bit is in fact around 300MB.
So I'm inclined to think that the DNG export is still non demosaiced, so it is a true RAW file.

P.S.
I've also checked with RawTherapee on the demosaicing menu, when choosing "None (show sensor pattern)" it shows the pattern.

 

[tenmangu81]

For sure it's not a demosaiced file, but the information it contains is biased with respect to the .fff file. I frankly don't know what cooking Phocus is doing through the DNG conversion.

 

[anyone]

Is it just me, or do really all Youtube reviews about the CFV100c miss the point of really looking into the qualities of the digital back and instead look at the bundle of 907x+CFV100c as a standalone camera?

I mean, no real adaptation test with V lenses, nobody with a Cambo/ Alpa/ Linhof/ Arca system shifting, ... ? Maybe I'm representing a niche audience, but who would buy the bundle for the 907x camera experience.

Maybe let's just call it advertising instead of review.

Edit: I would like to correct my statement above: I'm actually currently thinking of whether the 907x CAN be a viable camera option on its own, so I'm happy to read about this experience as well. My point was that I was guessing that most people would buy the combo to get a capable digital back and the 907x comes on top. I didn't mean to bash the users of 907x as a camera.

 

[wattsy]

Maybe I'm representing a niche audience, but who would buy the bundle for the 907x camera experience.

I bought the 907x with 50MP back for that "camera experience". I could have bought the slightly cheaper X1D II instead but specifically wanted the 907x and back because of the waist level style LCD screen and the absence of an EVF. I'm very happy with the camera and had no idea I was doing anything weird or niche.

 

[guphotography]

Is it just me, or do really all Youtube reviews about the CFV100c miss the point of really looking into the qualities of the digital back and instead look at the bundle of 907x+CFV100c as a standalone camera?

I mean, no real adaptation test with V lenses, nobody with a Cambo/ Alpa/ Linhof/ Arca system shifting, ... ? Maybe I'm representing a niche audience, but who would buy the bundle for the 907x camera experience.

Maybe let's just call it advertising instead of review.

Jack of all cameras couldn't possibly know more than what they are paid to know.

 

[anyone]

I bought the 907x with 50MP back for that "camera experience". I could have bought the slightly cheaper X1D II instead but specifically wanted the 907x and back because of the waist level style LCD screen and the absence of an EVF. I'm very happy with the camera and had no idea I was doing anything weird or niche.

I guess I was a little too much in the own, tech camera niche, no offense

 

[richardman]

Most of the reviewers do not use the V cameras, and as a 203FE + II 50C user, I doubt that combo would be much improved by using the 100C back. In fact, may bring more frustration. So the future of the 907X IS going to be for people who want the smallest MF camera but with limitation of no-IBIS and other things. The tech camera users will do their own experiments anyway. One of the tech camera lens could easily be more expensive than the new back, and it's not like there are overwhelming number of choice of digital backs for them, so...

 

[Jager]

Certainly there is an enormous amount of educational and entertaining content on YouTube. But I think most "content creators" there - like social media in general - are very focused on clicks and likes and just being noticed. They've monetized their channel and they're looking for the quickest bang-for-the-buck they can achieve. Deep dives and esoteric edge case explorations are out.

I'm a little hesitant to say it, because there are a number of YouTube channels I like... but there's something of an inverse relationship between the amount of time and effort that goes into producing videos for the public and the actual, artistic work that those authors put out. A cynic might say you can be a good "content creator" or you can be a good photographer/artist. But probably not both.

As for the 907x, I can say that using it in its native form - the back, the body, and an XCD lens - is an utter delight!

 

[tcdeveau]

For a MF camera like this, I’d trust the opinion of users here (and our forum sponsor ) more than any YouTube reviewer personally, unless they’ve used tech cams (or even know what an Alpa or Cambo is).

I stopped watching YouTube “reviews” a long time ago….agree there’s a lot of good content on YouTube but camera “reviews” are definitely not anything I go to YouTube for.

I guess I’m lucky CI headquarters is a 20 min drive from my house too, but I’ve been through enough camera systems that I’ve got a good idea at this point whether or not a given camera will work for me.

I’ve been looking to upgrade my X1D but haven’t done enough shooting the last year to justify it, maybe next year is the year.

 

[P. Chong]

when I wrote my review of the 907/CFV II 50C, I used it with the 503 and with HC lenses via the XH Adapter. Apparently Hb is not happy with the review, and did not offer to send the new camera. Even though I did a follow up with the Alpa STC Silver Edition (Alpa sourced) which is a package with the STC and CFV II 50C back (well actually the 907/CFV as Hb does not sell the back on its own).

Is it just me, or do really all Youtube reviews about the CFV100c miss the point of really looking into the qualities of the digital back and instead look at the bundle of 907x+CFV100c as a standalone camera?

I mean, no real adaptation test with V lenses, nobody with a Cambo/ Alpa/ Linhof/ Arca system shifting, ... ? Maybe I'm representing a niche audience, but who would buy the bundle for the 907x camera experience.

Maybe let's just call it advertising instead of review.

 

[P. Chong]

Agree. Look up the Kai review of Alpa…what a joke.

For a MF camera like this, I’d trust the opinion of users here (and our forum sponsor ) more than any YouTube reviewer personally, unless they’ve used tech cams (or even know what an Alpa or Cambo is).

I stopped watching YouTube “reviews” a long time ago….agree there’s a lot of good content on YouTube but camera “reviews” are definitely not anything I go to YouTube for.

I guess I’m lucky CI headquarters is a 20 min drive from my house too, but I’ve been through enough camera systems that I’ve got a good idea at this point whether or not a given camera will work for me.

I’ve been looking to upgrade my X1D but haven’t done enough shooting the last year to justify it, maybe next year is the year.

 

[jng]

Agree. Look up the Kai review of Alpa…what a joke.

Indeed, his reviews are pure - or more accurately, puerile - entertainment. I'm not even sure that Kai takes himself seriously!

John

 

[Digitalcameraman]

That is correct.

Phase One owns that technology and how they developed it, so I do not expect any of these other medium format manufactures to offer it. Wish they would, it is two great features. It does require a lot of power and processing internal to the back.

It's my understanding that the X2D 100C has no:

- two exposure (highlight, shadow) averaging, like IQ4's Dual EXP+, and

- long exposure shot averaging, like IQ4's automatic frame averaging.

Assume also out of luck here for the CFV-100C.

 

[ThdeDude]

Phase One owns that technology

Even if they have a patent on it, patents expire and then the technology that was patented and disclosed is freely available.

 

[buildbot]

That is correct.

Phase One owns that technology and how they developed it, so I do not expect any of these other medium format manufactures to offer it. Wish they would, it is two great features. It does require a lot of power and processing internal to the back.

Anyone have the patent? I actually have not found any for frame averaging (so far).

 

[BillyBagel]

trade secret versus patent?

 

[leejo]

Is it just me, or do really all Youtube reviews about the CFV100c miss the point of really looking into the qualities of the digital back and instead look at the bundle of 907x+CFV100c as a standalone camera?

Other replies above have covered it - Hasselblad's marketing department have sent the 907x/CFV 100c combo to channels optimising for clicks and have got reviews of the camera out in front of a collective audience in the millions (possibly tens of millions). I'm not convinced you can effectively review this camera (or any camera for that matter) without using it out in the field for several months, minimum, but anyway.

I think there's one channel I've seen that has been using the previous version extensively in their work so can express informed opinions on it, and they had a whinge about how poorly the viewing figures for their review video were because all the other channels were rushing out their own reviews after the embargo was lifted. This is the brave new world of technology news and reviews. I saw a "long term" review video recently of something - how "long term"? One month. One. Month. Come on!

As i've said before somewhere else - anyone seriously thinking of dropping money on this thing isn't going to be swung one way or another by a bunch of YouTube technologists (note: "technologists", not "photographers"). Also I think it's pretty telling that Hasselblad didn't send a V body to use in combination with the back to any of the reviewers despite this being a big part of the allure of the thing.

Anyone using this combo with a tech camera is out there making work, not making videos for YouTube.

 

[f8orbust]

Anyone have the patent? I actually have not found any for frame averaging (so far).

Is it even worth patenting? The result is just an in-camera equivalent of what you can get via PS's 'stacked images > smart object > stack mode > mean (or median)' workflow - people have been doing it that way in PS for years, and I believe even many smart phones offer it as well.

 

[MGrayson]

Is it even worth patenting? It's just an in-camera application of PS's 'stacked images > smart object > stack mode > mean (or median)' workflow - people have been doing it that way in PS for years, and I believe even many smart phones offer it as well.

Stacking the images after capturing them all would be way too memory and data intensive. The images can be averaged very simply as each frame is captured. Simple per pixel, but there are a lot of pixels. The hardware implementation might be clever.

 

[Godfrey]

...
I'm not convinced you can effectively review this camera (or any camera for that matter) without using it out in the field for several months, minimum, but anyway.
{... snip ...}

I've been saying this for years, and is why I only look at on-line reviews for entertainment. It's the rare reviewer that I consider to actually have anything of value to say. Nothing tells me much about a camera other than using it myself for a few months.

I've been using my 907x/CFVII 50c "Moon edition" since 2020, both by itself as a standalone camera and in conjunction with my Hasselblad 500CM bodies and lenses. I bought it because it extends the usefulness of my Hasselblad V system into the digital capture era and because it has capabilities that complement the V system (like AF, auto exposure, etc) for when that's useful. I don't have any notion of using the back with a technical camera as I don't do that kind of photography enough to make the investment.

I've been completely satisfied that it does everything I wanted to do with it when I bought it very nicely indeed, and I suspect the 100 mpixel version does the same. I just don't know that it's actually worthwhile for me to spend another $8000+ to get that doubling of pixel resolution (about 35% linear resolution gain; it would take about 200 Mpixels to double the linear resolution of the CFVII 50c), I don't really use it enough for that or need that additional resolution edge.

G