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It is Finally Here, 907x 100c

J

Jager

Member
Yeah, no, the PDAF focus aid available when using CFV-100C -> 907x -> XCD lens does NOT work when using CFV-100C -> 907x -> XV Adapter -> V-System Lens.

As @Godfrey notes, the XV Adapter is nothing more than a tube with appropriate mounts at either end to bridge the 907x body and a V-System lens. There is no electronic linkage.
 
buildbot

buildbot

Well-known member
FloatingLens said:
Hi all,

thanks, I think we are talking two different things. To avoid misunderstandings: the X2D and 907x introduced a new round-shaped focus aid [1], which I reckon works PDAF based (because the 50c‘s don‘t have it).
My old Contax 645 has a similar old-school focus confirmation indicator, which works with adapted lenses below f5.6 just as well - so my take is, the Hasselblad feature could very well work without electric contacts and adapted optics or even technical cameras. Then again, I would not be surprised if that’s the case only in 907x mode and not with the CFV standalone. Any thoughts?

-Johannes

[1] X2D 100c User Manual https://cdn.hasselblad.com/manuals/X2D_100C_User_Manual/User_Manual/X2D_100C_User_Manual_v1.4_EN.pdf page 60 of 132
Click to expand...
Same for the Mamiya bodies, and the XF - they’ll still tell you the (possibly wrong, for adapted lens) direction to turn the lens to reach focus and have a confirm when in focus for any lens. I actually don’t know of any mirrorless body that provides that feature?!
 
Godfrey

Godfrey

Well-known member
FloatingLens said:
Hi all,

thanks, I think we are talking two different things. To avoid misunderstandings: the X2D and 907x introduced a new round-shaped focus aid [1], which I reckon works PDAF based (because the 50c‘s don‘t have it).
My old Contax 645 has a similar old-school focus confirmation indicator, which works with adapted lenses below f5.6 just as well - so my take is, the Hasselblad feature could very well work without electric contacts and adapted optics or even technical cameras. Then again, I would not be surprised if that’s the case only in 907x mode and not with the CFV standalone. Any thoughts?

-Johannes

[1] X2D 100c User Manual https://cdn.hasselblad.com/manuals/X2D_100C_User_Manual/User_Manual/X2D_100C_User_Manual_v1.4_EN.pdf page 60 of 132
Click to expand...
Yes, we were talking about two different things. The "focus indicator" I was talking about is the electronically supplied focus distance scale available as one of the overlay modes in the CFVII 50c, referred to in at least one of the download notes as the focus indicator scale ... does the CFV 100c still have that? This new focus indicator in the X2D/CFV 100C is not implemented in the CFVII 50c. Whether it is PDAF based or not, I have no idea: I don't see any reason why it needs PDAF to be functional, but ... eh?

To my eye, it seems small and fussy to read, and would get in my way just like focus peaking often does. I usually just turn all the "aids" off as unnecessary distraction and practice by studying focus point transition on the screen or display. It's for the same reason that all my old Nikon SLRs were ultimately fitted with the Type E focus screen ... plain matte fresnel with reference gridlines ... works with any lens, never distracting ... etc etc. ;)

G
 
Steve Hendrix

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
anyone said:
@Steve Hendrix , could you also address this issue with Hasselblad?
Click to expand...

We'll do our best.

At one point, Hasselblad digital backs could not capture a scene calibration file that worked unless it was tethered. This was around 2005-2006. I made a phone call to the CEO at the time, argued for how important it was to be able to capture it un-tethered, and within 2 weeks, you could capture a scene calibration file to a media card and execute the correction later in post.

Sadly, today - in terms of access, influence, and openness to input from a hands on dealer like CI - things are very different. As a result, I would urge anyone for whom this matters to, to make your voice heard as well.

But we'll be sure to raise the issue with comprehensive detail.


Steve Hendrix/CI
 
P

Paul Spinnler

Well-known member
Hi Steve!

If you see the P1 team again this year also let them know how important wide angle lens compatibility is before they come up with the idea of adding PDAF on the IQ5 (I think they won't, but who knows what's coming). I am a bit afraid that people forget how wide-spread SK lenses still are!

The IQ4 heralded a new era for SK lenses, would be ironic if the IQ5 marks an end due to PDAF ...
 
A

Alkibiades

Well-known member
This 100c back could be the the most usefull photographic item made in this year at all, or the best product from hasselblad ever, when Hasselblad would recognize what is really wanted by the most photographers.
And the answer is very easy: a back with BSI Sony sensor.
A back that simply use the main advantage of this sensor and this is not really more pixels or what ever but the superior handling of the color cast that apears at wide angle symmetrical lenses and large movements.
Also for me this would be the main reason to get this back.
I cant believe that Hasselbald simply distroys this most important advantage of this sensor by adding this idiotic Af, just to make a retro-hasselblad.
It would be nice to have this possibility, but it makes this back useless for their biggest advantage. Hasselbald has already with XD a very good camera system for AF shooters, why a third class AF system here? who is really interested in retro shooting with this AF system?
I cant believe that the technicians at hasselblad did not know about the stripes issue. Also one day testing by an user with a technical camera would discover this problem very easy. But the management was more interested in the advertising of the hasselbald moon story and the retro look than the functionality of the product.
So my disappointment is very strong and I dont have any illusions that a software update could solve this problem.
This is simply a hardware problem. A solution would be a simple back, nothing more , no AF, no 907 system, just a simple and well working back.
But I dont believe that will ever happen.
Sadly a big disappointment.
 
Steve Hendrix

Steve Hendrix

Well-known member
Keep in mind a few things. This could be a PDAF-related issue. I don't think that is confirmed yet. What else could cause it - who knows? Could be any number of things.

Also, Fujifilm had the PDAF issue with the original GFX 100. I believe that issue was resolved with firmware. Interestingly, that issue presented itself with files dramatically underexposed with heavy shadow push on fixed plane lenses. And if I underexpose a standard, un-shifted CFV 100c file by many stops, and then push that exposure up many stops and add all sorts of additional pixel-twisting adjustments, I do not see the lines.

So I'm not sure what this is, my only hope is that whetever it is, Hasselblad is able to resolve in firmware/software, and is able to do so quickly (I know that is asking a lot). Surprise us, Hasselblad!


Steve Hendrix/CI
 
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mristuccia

mristuccia

Well-known member
Alkibiades said:
This 100c back could be the the most usefull photographic item made in this year at all, or the best product from hasselblad ever, when Hasselblad would recognize what is really wanted by the most photographers.
And the answer is very easy: a back with BSI Sony sensor.
A back that simply use the main advantage of this sensor and this is not really more pixels or what ever but the superior handling of the color cast that apears at wide angle symmetrical lenses and large movements.
Also for me this would be the main reason to get this back.
I cant believe that Hasselbald simply distroys this most important advantage of this sensor by adding this idiotic Af, just to make a retro-hasselblad.
It would be nice to have this possibility, but it makes this back useless for their biggest advantage. Hasselbald has already with XD a very good camera system for AF shooters, why a third class AF system here? who is really interested in retro shooting with this AF system?
I cant believe that the technicians at hasselblad did not know about the stripes issue. Also one day testing by an user with a technical camera would discover this problem very easy. But the management was more interested in the advertising of the hasselbald moon story and the retro look than the functionality of the product.
So my disappointment is very strong and I dont have any illusions that a software update could solve this problem.
This is simply a hardware problem. A solution would be a simple back, nothing more , no AF, no 907 system, just a simple and well working back.
But I dont believe that will ever happen.
Sadly a big disappointment.
Click to expand...
Please keep in mind that many of the features you mentioned as "who cares" are indeed what differentiates this proposition from the P1 one, besides the price of course which is the only aspect that would make me agree with your point here.
The "retro" narrative is still appealing. Even more than that: it is really fascinating! I myself would buy this back and use it on my 503CW as well as with the 907x and my Cambo. Flexibility is the key here.

As soon as I've seen this back announced, I knew that I wanted it. But I've decided to wait for the brave early adopters to try it and spot any issues. And usually there are issues. I must say that it has been a wise decision considering where we are at right now.
Let's hope that a firmware update can fix this. Although from a technical point of view I think that, like with any kind of "after-the-fact" digital dust removal solution, this will involve a reconstruction of the affected pixels by interpolation, which is bad in any case, especially because the areas of intervention are not exactly "tiny spots".
 
Last edited:
T

tcdeveau

Well-known member
Alkibiades said:
This 100c back could be the the most usefull photographic item made in this year at all, or the best product from hasselblad ever, when Hasselblad would recognize what is really wanted by the most photographers.
And the answer is very easy: a back with BSI Sony sensor.
A back that simply use the main advantage of this sensor and this is not really more pixels or what ever but the superior handling of the color cast that apears at wide angle symmetrical lenses and large movements.
Also for me this would be the main reason to get this back.
I cant believe that Hasselbald simply distroys this most important advantage of this sensor by adding this idiotic Af, just to make a retro-hasselblad.
It would be nice to have this possibility, but it makes this back useless for their biggest advantage. Hasselbald has already with XD a very good camera system for AF shooters, why a third class AF system here? who is really interested in retro shooting with this AF system?
I cant believe that the technicians at hasselblad did not know about the stripes issue. Also one day testing by an user with a technical camera would discover this problem very easy. But the management was more interested in the advertising of the hasselbald moon story and the retro look than the functionality of the product.
So my disappointment is very strong and I dont have any illusions that a software update could solve this problem.
This is simply a hardware problem. A solution would be a simple back, nothing more , no AF, no 907 system, just a simple and well working back.
But I dont believe that will ever happen.
Sadly a big disappointment.
Click to expand...
The AF is meaningful for me. I’m willing to accept comprise for something I can use on a tech cam and handheld with face detect AF with my existing XCD lenses. I tend not to do extreme movements or edits so I doubt my photos would be affected by the banding much. Lack of AF would be a deal breaker for me and I suspect I’m not alone in that camp.
 
A

anyone

Well-known member
mristuccia said:
The "retro" narrative is still appealing. Even more than that: it is really fascinating! I myself would buy this back and use it on my 503CW as well as with the 907x and my Cambo. Flexibility is the key here.
Click to expand...
100% agree. In fact, I find it fascinating how Hasselblad ensured backwards compatibility to their V-line, including lens profiles for every C / CF / CFi / CFE lens I own. This is dedication to detail!

I was more skeptical of the 907x as such, but now that I own it, I have to say it's a very lightweight, enjoyable medium format camera. In many ways more limited to let's say a GFX or X2D, but still a compact camera. It reminds me so much of waist-level-finder shooting experience that I constantly move the camera to the wrong direction, because I'm used to the flipped sides of the 500C/M waist level!

Now since we can remove the issue with the wide angles by software, I'm hoping that Hasselblad can do that too with a firmware update and make also the tech cam crowd completely happy. Because all the features mentioned above I could have also achieved with the CFV50c back. Wide angle shooting with Schneider lenses not, and that prevented me from entering the system earlier.
 
A

anyone

Well-known member
Wide angle Schneider tech lenses have severe color cast on the CFV50c which cannot be fully corrected with LCC.
 
Godfrey

Godfrey

Well-known member
anyone said:
Wide angle Schneider tech lenses have severe color cast on the CFV50c which cannot be fully corrected with LCC.
Click to expand...
Ah, thanks. Didn't know that ... Will likely never see it myself as I simply don't see myself sliding down the technical camera rabbithole in this lifetime. ;)

G
 
A

Alkibiades

Well-known member
anyway I made what I can and reported the problem to hasselblad with the hope that the company take this serious and take steps to solve this problem.
When the strips problem will be solved I will definitely go for this back.
BSi sensor that works properly will be the dream for the Super digitar 28 xl and this is what I am looking for.
The portrait-people shooters have some interesting alternativs as the older model with the 50 MP chip, the XD system or even Fuji with the new AF system.
They dont really need this sensor- but for users with technical cameras and schneider symmetrical wide lenses there is no other option with BSI sensor, therefore my dissapointment.
(phase one IQ4150 has the bigger chip and the price is from other universe, so it is not an alternativ).
 
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