Lens suggestions for small view camera for digital

[rdeloe]

The Makro-Symmar 120mm I was referring to is the one in the Makro-Iris industrial housing. Those regularly sell on eBay from Asia for under $USD $400. Here's a review from Robert O'Toole's Closeup Photography website that has a nice picture at the top: https://www.closeuphotography.com/schneider-makro-symmar-sr-120 Robert died earlier this year so his web site is going to disappear as soon as it comes time to renew the domain; if you value the information, make a PDF!

People often overlook the Makro-Iris housing because it has a strange coupling and doesn't use f-numbers for the aperture scale. I prefer them because they are solid, all metal housings. If you need to reverse your lens, it's a simple matter of undoing the locking screws, reversing the lens, and re-attaching. Adapters to go from the housing's "V-Mount" to M42x1 or 39mm x 1/26th inch (the standard for small enlarger lenses) are available for ~ $10 on eBay. The aperture blades are also a nice shape on these housings, if that matters. The f-number scale is easy to handle. The number "1" is wide open and would be f/5.6 on this lens. The number "2" is f/8, etc. A final bonus of these lenses is they tend to be much more recent because they were made for use in factories.

If 120mm is too long for you, you can also get the APO-Componon 90mm f/4.5 in Makro-Iris. This one is a bit more complicated because it comes in several different "Types" that are tweaked for different magnifications. I bought the Type -0024, which is quite common on eBay. I use it from close-up (rarely 1:1) to infinity. It's excellent. The APO-Digitar 90mm that sells for a lot more money has the same optical parameters as one of the "APO-Componon" types.

Timo's suggestion for a Componon-S 100mm is good too. They are inexpensive and perform well. Here's a review from Robert's website that shows all the housings: https://www.closeuphotography.com/componon-s-100mm-lens-test The B0 housing is my favourite because as Tim says it is Copal 0 threading on the rear. Sometimes they come with an adapter already mounted that takes you to 39mm x 1/26th or even M42x1. You have to be careful though because they also come in housings that are not B0. The BL-0 mount Schneider used is, I believe, M42x0.75mm. You can distinguish it because it has a switch to de-click the aperture.

I have a couple Componon-S 100 lenses that I actually bought for the housings. They're decent performers, but if I was seriously into macro photography, especially at higher magnification than 1:1, I would definitely spend a bit more and get a Makro-Symmar 120mm in the Makro-Iris housing.

 

[TimoK]

It is hard to speak when we use different terms for same things. You speak of Makro-Iris mount. So did Robert O'Toole too. I'm not aware of Schneider's Makro-Iris. I think you mean Schneider's Iris mount B-V. Look at https://www.davechewphotography.com//temp_images/pdf/enlarging/Iris_mounts.pdf

 

[rdeloe]

Yes, it's called B-V in that diagram. In fact, I've seen different naming conventions for all of those housings. Some people call them BK-0 or NK-0. There seems to be a regional flavour to what is used.

I use the term "Makro-Iris" refers to the whole system of components that work with the industrial housings (extension tubes, helicoids, etc.). The "Unifoc" components are part of the system too. https://schneiderkreuznach.com/en/industrial-optics/lenses/accessories/unifoc The "V-Mount" (or sometimes "B-V Mount or V-38) is the common connector.

Interestingly, Schneider has come up with a whole new mount I didn't know existed: the F-Mount.

If you want to find these lenses easily on eBay or from industrial suppliers and resellers, you have to search for "Makro-Iris" because that's how they are identified. Here's a nice example that shows some of the interesting components in the system: https://bullseyeindustrialsales.com/schneider-174-294mm-iris-w-f40-60-25mm-extension-lens-212495

I keep finding new components as I search around. Schneider seemed always happy to do custom work and small jobs for industry.

 

[Doppler9000]

Interestingly, Schneider has come up with a whole new mount I didn't know existed: the F-Mount.

I believe the F-Mount is a Nikon SLR bayonet.

I pulled 3D files of a Schneider Xenon F-Mount and a Nikon F bayonet…

 

[rdeloe]

I believe the F-Mount is a Nikon SLR bayonet.

I pulled 3D files of a Schneider Xenon F-Mount and a Nikon F bayonet…
View attachment 215544

That makes a shocking amount of sense!

 

[Doppler9000]

For some reason, the Nikon bayonet is a quasi-standard in industrial applications. It could be because Nikon has traditionally made excellent macro lenses, including the various iterations of the 55mm Micro-Nikkor.

 

[Allthink_]

I guess you can find a copy of Makro-Symmar 120mm under 1K$. But if you want really an economic solution for macro, I recommend SK Componon-S 100mm f/5.6.
I payed 100€ for my copy. I once compared it with my Apo-Digitar-M 120mm (a newer version of Makro-Symmar). Apo-Digitar was a hair sharper, but that hair was very thin!
Both of those are mounted in Schneider's B0 lens barrel with aperture. It fits to Cambo #0 lens board, the same diameter and thread size as in Copal #0.
Look this There is also more data about Schneider lenses https://www.davechewphotography.com/skdata/

Edit. "this" link corrected.

Thanks for suggestion. Yes, i indeed see this lens componon-s 100mm selling on ebay, one in fair cindition for 70$, another for 200$, so seems like a good buy. When I searched for this lens, the fujinon 135mm enlarging lens came with search results. never heard about that lens.

 

[rdeloe]

Here's another nice overview of Schneider's V38 system (for Makro-Iris lenses among others): https://www.savazzi.net/photography/schneider-v38mount.html

 

[Allthink_]

The Makro-Symmar 120mm I was referring to is the one in the Makro-Iris industrial housing. Those regularly sell on eBay from Asia for under $USD $400. Here's a review from Robert O'Toole's Closeup Photography website that has a nice picture at the top: https://www.closeuphotography.com/schneider-makro-symmar-sr-120 Robert died earlier this year so his web site is going to disappear as soon as it comes time to renew the domain; if you value the information, make a PDF!

People often overlook the Makro-Iris housing because it has a strange coupling and doesn't use f-numbers for the aperture scale. I prefer them because they are solid, all metal housings. If you need to reverse your lens, it's a simple matter of undoing the locking screws, reversing the lens, and re-attaching. Adapters to go from the housing's "V-Mount" to M42x1 or 39mm x 1/26th inch (the standard for small enlarger lenses) are available for ~ $10 on eBay. The aperture blades are also a nice shape on these housings, if that matters. The f-number scale is easy to handle. The number "1" is wide open and would be f/5.6 on this lens. The number "2" is f/8, etc. A final bonus of these lenses is they tend to be much more recent because they were made for use in factories.

If 120mm is too long for you, you can also get the APO-Componon 90mm f/4.5 in Makro-Iris. This one is a bit more complicated because it comes in several different "Types" that are tweaked for different magnifications. I bought the Type -0024, which is quite common on eBay. I use it from close-up (rarely 1:1) to infinity. It's excellent. The APO-Digitar 90mm that sells for a lot more money has the same optical parameters as one of the "APO-Componon" types.

Timo's suggestion for a Componon-S 100mm is good too. They are inexpensive and perform well. Here's a review from Robert's website that shows all the housings: https://www.closeuphotography.com/componon-s-100mm-lens-test The B0 housing is my favourite because as Tim says it is Copal 0 threading on the rear. Sometimes they come with an adapter already mounted that takes you to 39mm x 1/26th or even M42x1. You have to be careful though because they also come in housings that are not B0. The BL-0 mount Schneider used is, I believe, M42x0.75mm. You can distinguish it because it has a switch to de-click the aperture.

I have a couple Componon-S 100 lenses that I actually bought for the housings. They're decent performers, but if I was seriously into macro photography, especially at higher magnification than 1:1, I would definitely spend a bit more and get a Makro-Symmar 120mm in the Makro-Iris housing.

Thanks Rob
Seems like the Schneider Makro-Symmar 120mm f5.6 is big and quality lens. It sellf for 600euro.
But the Schneider-Kreuznach Componon-S 5.6 / 100 mm seems even more attractive and already in copal 0. The symmar i attach is copal 0 or needs some adapter?

I attach Timmos lens suggestion, seems like it's not copal, not sure(second image)
So, the Makro Symmar is 600$ while Componon is 100$...

In search results I got some result as well FUJI Fujinon EX 135mm f5.6 Enlarging MF
interesting lens and costs pennies.
I did download now Robert O'toole website, just in case(currently running)

I wander what is more economically makes more sense, to buy 170$ lens plate for each new used copal lens I buy, or to buy only one P645 or RZ 67 mount for 470$, and then just attach each new Pentax/Mamiya lens I buy, without spending each time copal lens board. I'm more after quality of the lens, but if the difference is almost invisible, then economical decision-wise makes more sense. If the difference is significantly noticуable, then the quality is a priority for me.
Seems like copal lenses, some of them are cheaper and some of them are, in most instances higher priced than Pentax 645/RZ67 lenses, that I assume are not less IQ wise.
Interesting to hear opinion of the colleagues here on that matter.

 

[rdeloe]

The Makro-Symmar 120 in the picture in your post is a fixed aperture one. You don't want that one.

The Componon-S 100/5.6 is a good lens, but it is not in the same league as the Makro-Symmar 120/5.6 at the distances for which the Makro-Symmar is designed. Whether the quality improvement you get with the Makro-Symmar matters in your photography is something only you can judge.

Your budget seems all over the place, and I still don't understand whether you're looking for just one lens to do macro work, or you're trying to assemble a set of lenses for different purposes. It would be helpful if you could explain. It would also be helpful if you identified the size of your budget. If it's $200, I'll give you different advice than if it's $2,000.

 

[Allthink_]

The Makro-Symmar 120 in the picture in your post is a fixed aperture one. You don't want that one.

The Componon-S 100/5.6 is a good lens, but it is not in the same league as the Makro-Symmar 120/5.6 at the distances for which the Makro-Symmar is designed. Whether the quality improvement you get with the Makro-Symmar matters in your photography is something only you can judge.

Your budget seems all over the place, and I still don't understand whether you're looking for just one lens to do macro work, or you're trying to assemble a set of lenses for different purposes. It would be helpful if you could explain. It would also be helpful if you identified the size of your budget. If it's $200, I'll give you different advice than if it's $2,000.

Second option, trying to assemble a set of lenses for different purposes. I didn't thought about specific budget, but it's close to 1500$ range. I can buy one/ two good lenses now and later have a new budget for additional lenses. Not end of the world yet.
I think if I go to the more pricier adapter for Pentax 645, i can get for example 35mm lens and 120mm macro.
Other way, buying RZ mound I can buy many good mamiya lenses that are usually cheap, except 50mm uld which is 800$.
Buying copal 0 and 1 plates drives me to different direction.

 

[John Leathwick]

To weigh in based on my experience, in the past I've compared the closeup performance of a Componon-S 80 against an ApoComponon 90 HM (M39 mount), and the ApoComponon was a clear winner. However, I could not separate the performance of my ApoComponon from a much cheaper pair of Fujinon EX's that I have - 75mm and 105mm. The latter are very strong performers both for closeup (c. 1:5 is what I mostly shoot at) and at infinity, and with my close vision a little compromised, I like their much larger aperture numbers. I use them on an F-Universalis with a GFX 100S. I also have a Componon-S 150 which performs very well for closeup, and looked at the Fujinon EX 135, but it has a more difficult mount size.

-John

 

[rdeloe]

Second option, trying to assemble a set of lenses for different purposes. I didn't thought about specific budget, but it's close to 1500$ range. I can buy one/ two good lenses now and later have a new budget for additional lenses. Not end of the world yet.
I think if I go to the more pricier adapter for Pentax 645, i can get for example 35mm lens and 120mm macro.
Other way, buying RZ mound I can buy many good mamiya lenses that are usually cheap, except 50mm uld which is 800$.
Buying copal 0 and 1 plates drives me to different direction.

That's helpful. OK, so the simplest thing to do is get a Pentax 645 adapter and use Pentax 645 lenses. The Pentax-A 120mm macro is excellent. You don't even need to buy tubes if you need higher magnification because an Actus will give you a huge amount of extension. The Pentax-A 645 35mm f/3.5 is excellent for wide angle (but not great for architecture because of the moustache distortion typical of wide angle lenses like that). The A 75mm f/2.8 is a terrific lens too. If you need something in the middle, the pickings are thinner, but you could do well with a Pentax 67 55mm f/4 third generation on a Pentax 67 to 645 adapter (so you don't need another lens board).

John's recommendations for Fujinon EX lenses are good too if you need something lighter. Like John, I've used both the 75mm and 105mm and can recommend them. I have not used the 135mm. The 50mm will not cover the GFX sensor (except at high magnification). Make sure to buy the EX lenses though; the ES and EP Fujinon enlarger lenses are not comparable.

 

[Allthink_]

Thanks. In case I'm buying enlarger lens(componon or ex, etc), i need a M39 to copal 0 adapter?
If I pick RZ lens mount, it just means that I will not get wide angle like 35mm but I will get all lenses from 50mm and on which are also excellent, right?

If i buy Nikon NIKKOR SW 65mm f/4 or FUJINON SWD 65mm F5.6, I just need copal 0 lens board for it?

 

[TimoK]

Thanks. In case I'm buying enlarger lens(componon or ex, etc), i need a M39 to copal 0 adapter?

For most EL lenses from 50mm to 135mm you need a M39 lensplate, this one: https://www.cambo.com/en/products/t...meras/lenses-and-lensplates/lensplates/acb-39 There's female thread in that lensplate, so you don't need retaining ring.

You can mount EL lenses also to #1 lensplate with 41.8mm hole using this retaining ring https://skgrimes.com/product/retaining-ring-leica-m39/ ( I guess it works, ask)

My 100mm Componon-S in B-0 aperture mount has 32,5*0.5mm thread. You need a #0 lensplate with 34.8mm hole https://www.cambo.com/en/products/t...ameras/lenses-and-lensplates/lensplates/acb-0 You also need a retaining ring to mount the lens. Look https://skgrimes.com/mounting-flanges-and-retaining-rings/

Most view camera lenses from wide angles to 150mm fit to #0 lensplate. Some 150mm and most 180 -210mm lenses need #1 size (41.8mm) hole.

 

[Allthink_]

Is this lens good option for middle range, as I was suggested for Mamiya 50mm ULD.
This one is Rodenstock Apo Sironar Digital 55mm F5.6 Lens in Copal #0 that sells for 1300$. The other alternative is Nikkor 65mm LF/Fujinon which cost only ~300$.
I also see Rodenstock Grandagon-N 65mm f/4.5 MC Lens for 600$, but i assume it's an old lens as Nikkor is. So is the Schneider Super Angulon MC 65mm F5.6 1000$.
00$.

 

[Allthink_]

For most EL lenses from 50mm to 135mm you need a M39 lensplate, this one: https://www.cambo.com/en/products/t...meras/lenses-and-lensplates/lensplates/acb-39 There's female thread in that lensplate, so you don't need retaining ring.

You can mount EL lenses also to #1 lensplate with 41.8mm hole using this retaining ring https://skgrimes.com/product/retaining-ring-leica-m39/ ( I guess it works, ask)

My 100mm Componon-S in B-0 aperture mount has 32,5*0.5mm thread. You need a #0 lensplate with 34.8mm hole https://www.cambo.com/en/products/t...ameras/lenses-and-lensplates/lensplates/acb-0 You also need a retaining ring to mount the lens. Look https://skgrimes.com/mounting-flanges-and-retaining-rings/

Most view camera lenses from wide angles to 150mm fit to #0 lensplate. Some 150mm and most 180 -210mm lenses need #1 size (41.8mm) hole.

Thank you Timok, i was really wandering if i buy a copal 0 lensplate form Cambo, does it come with retaining ring(seems like they didn't think about it), so thanks for that links.

For this componon(image attached) which cost 190$, i just buy th ACB-0 lens plate and don't need retaining ring, right?

Is Schneider-KREUZNACH MAKRO-SYMMAR 5.9/120 MAKRO-IRIS SR5.6/120 better than this componon-s ?

To mount Symmar(the bottom image), I just buy ACB-39 lens plate which comes with M39 leica thread and that's it?

Are these any better than Pentax 645 120mm macro or Mamiya rz 140?

 

[TimoK]

Thank you Timok, i was really wandering if i buy a copal 0 lensplate form Cambo, does it come with retaining ring(seems like they didn't think about it), so thanks for that links.

For this componon(image attached) which cost 190$, i just buy th ACB-0 lens plate and don't need retaining ring, right?

Is Schneider-KREUZNACH MAKRO-SYMMAR 5.9/120 MAKRO-IRIS SR5.6/120 better than this componon-s ?

To mount Symmar(the bottom image), I just buy ACB-39 lens plate which comes with M39 leica thread and that's it?

Are these any better than Pentax 645 120mm macro or Mamiya rz 140?
View attachment 215555
View attachment 215556

This Componon-S looks like it was M39 version. You need Cambo ACB-39 lensplate w/o retaining ring. Retaining rings come with lenses, not with lensplates, when you buy new ones, often also with used lenses but not always.

SK Makro-Symmars are better than Componon-S lenses in macro magnifications, 1:1 and larger. I compared my lenses at 1:3 magnification. At close-up photography, say 1:10 to 1:5 Makro-Symmars or Apo-Digitar-M lenses are still better but the quality difference is quite small. There are different versions of Makro-Symmar/Apo-Digitar-M lenses. My version is so called photographers version with wide magnification range. It's optimized to magnification from 1:4 to 4:1. Still very usable at 1:10.

You have found an industrial version of Makro-Symmar in eBay. Those industrial versions are optimized for very narrow magnification range. It's written on lens body. In picture I can see 1.60 of that, but no more. If I remember there's four or five industrial Makro-Symmars for different distances. Btw. there's a retaining ring in that Makro-Symmar, #0 size, I wonder.

I can not say if SK lenses are optically better than Pentax or Mamiya macros (I bet Makro-symmar is in it's best distances) but they are smaller and lighter.

What is your use case for a macro lens? Do you take real macro shots at 1:1 to 4:1 or more?

 

[Allthink_]

This Componon-S looks like it was M39 version. You need Cambo ACB-39 lensplate w/o retaining ring. Retaining rings come with lenses, not with lensplates, when you buy new ones, often also with used lenses but not always.

SK Makro-Symmars are better than Componon-S lenses in macro magnifications, 1:1 and larger. I compared my lenses at 1:3 magnification. At close-up photography, say 1:10 to 1:5 Makro-Symmars or Apo-Digitar-M lenses are still better but the quality difference is quite small. There are different versions of Makro-Symmar/Apo-Digitar-M lenses. My version is so called photographers version with wide magnification range. It's optimized to magnification from 1:4 to 4:1. Still very usable at 1:10.

You have found an industrial version of Makro-Symmar in eBay. Those industrial versions are optimized for very narrow magnification range. It's written on lens body. In picture I can see 1.60 of that, but no more. If I remember there's four or five industrial Makro-Symmars for different distances. Btw. there's a retaining ring in that Makro-Symmar, #0 size, I wonder.

I can not say if SK lenses are optically better than Pentax or Mamiya macros (I bet Makro-symmar is in it's best distances) but they are smaller and lighter.

What is your use case for a macro lens? Do you take real macro shots at 1:1 to 4:1 or more?

Thanks. So, this makro-symmar confuses, too much versions for different use case and distances. I will pass on that. too much compicated lens. If it was like macro, for all ranges, then I would buy it, but not this one.
No, i don't make more than 1:1, let's say jewelry, bracelet, earrings is the smallest subjects I shoot.

 

[Doppler9000]

If you’re okay with a 930 gram lens, the RZ/RB 140mm macro has a lot to recommend it.

1.2X macro to infinity, with floating elements to optimize along the way.

$1,875 25 years ago, costlier than the 50mm ULD.