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M11 Images

hotshoe

Member
I don't have a problem w/ Sony sensors but it's a concern whenever another manufacturer jumps onboard the Sony train. Variety is good artistically and from supply chain & competition standpoint. Also, probably just me, but I feel a Sony sensor has no business in a Leica camera from a heritage and price point perspective. The uniqueness that Leica provides over commodity mainstream brands needs to be apparent in the files else I seriously start to question the value prop. I.e., it can't be just about the build quality and shooting experience.
 
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algrove

Well-known member
Your Phase gear is no different and is much more a price point perspective ($50k) than the M ($9k) to me having used Phase gear for over 10 years and well before Sony entered the picture with Phase and its heritage. Is not it the CFA and other proprietary work that each manufacturer does to the sensor that counts most?

Maybe I have it wrong. Heck the SL2S has a Sony BSI sensor and the shouting was about quiet until the M11 came along. Must admit the SL never attracted me so did not follow all the internet traffic about it since I preferred the Fuji GFX system and still do.

As for the M10R and M11 difference I can make either file look like the other with just slight slider movements.
 

hotshoe

Member
Your Phase gear is no different and is much more a price point perspective ...
Please don't remind me :), although P1/ALPA price not near that bad ignoring lenses (for apples-to-apples). I do understand IQ450 has a Sony sensor (same silicon as in GFX100/s from what I've read) but, similar to large screen TVs, price increases disproportionately w/ size, and I can appreciate that cutting a larger die from silicon wafer increases manufacturing cost (due to lower yields). There's no question price discrimination is in effect too (tied to sensor size & resolution), but all of this goes out the window w/ Leica FF cameras. Also, while no disrespect intended to P1, they don't have the same legacy as Leica cameras, nor do they promote their cameras as being "Made in Denmark." Again, probably just me, but I have a hard time w/ a Sony sensor in a Leica camera.

Maybe I have it wrong. Heck the SL2S has a Sony BSI sensor and the shouting was about quiet until the M11 came along.
I don't know about SL2-S, but I believe SL2 (what I have) uses sensor designed by Leica and manufactured by TowerJazz. If I'm wrong, please don't tell me :).

@algrove , my apologies for contributing to hijacking the great thread that you started here, which I believe you intended to be about sharing M11 images. Despite my remarks, the M11 is still a camera I'm interested in (I can overcome my hang-ups and embrace change), and it's great to see image samples from an accomplished photographer like yourself (not sarcasm). Thank you for starting this thread!
 
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iiiNelson

Well-known member
I don't have a problem w/ Sony sensors but it's a concern whenever another manufacturer jumps onboard the Sony train. Variety is good artistically and from supply chain & competition standpoint. Also, probably just me, but I feel a Sony sensor has no business in a Leica camera from a heritage and price point perspective. The uniqueness that Leica provides over commodity mainstream brands needs to be apparent in the files else I seriously start to question the value prop. I.e., it can't be just about the build quality and shooting experience.
Does that include the old Leica CL/Minolta CLE… becauseif we are talking heritage then Minolta is Sony’s photographic heritage…

I understand people wanting more customized solutions when it comes to niche cameras… but really people seem to have moreof an issue with the source being Sony. I find it a bit ironic because people don’t have an issue with Canon dominating the market or Nikon when they had a significant stake in it. Sony found their niche which ended up being the R&D side of the tech. The reality is that they got REALLY good at this at a price point that few could come close to.

I don’t really care either way. I’m looking at possibly adding a M11 layer on and perhaps it’ll be my return to Leica. Ironically it was the color of the M240 that made me leave because it looked a lot like pictures coming from a 5Dmk2 IMO before they eventually reworked the color. So a part of me gets wanting uniqueness but nothing really captured me like the M9/M9-P from Leica really… but I do like some of their more recent cameras after the M10 launched like the SL2 series which had a Panasonic TowerJazz sensor. Panasonic sold the controlling stock in that business and decided it was more economical to buy from Sony at this point as well. I expect the next SL3 to have a Sony derived sensor and I wouldn’t be upset if they used something like the Sony A1 type of sensor myself.
 
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spb

Well-known member
Staff member
This chat on sensor types etc is interesting. I have to say I do like a lot the colours that the Sony A1 is producing.
 

JoelM

Active member
Did Kodak develop the M8 and M9 sensors to resemble Kodachrome? I think so and I like that. I have an M9 and S2. I like the colors and shadows and I'm not concerned with high ISO values so it works for me. Everyone else's mileage will likely vary.

Joel
 
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iiiNelson

Well-known member
Did Kodak develop the M8 and M9 sensors to resemble Kodachrome? I think so and I like that. I have an M9 and S2. I like the colors and shadows and I'm not concerned with high ISO values so it works for me. Everyone else's mileage will likely vary.

Joel
Yes they noted in many interviews that Kodachrome was the target for the base ISO color. I agree that the M9 is probably the only digital camera that I’ve owned that I’ve loved… but the tech is outdated and not comparable to modern sensors as it applies to the flexibility in mixed light use cases. I just don’t see companies going back to CCD sensors. The DR is limited, the high ISO capability is terrible by modern standards, and the costs were prohibitive.

I’m pretty sure Lodak is out of the sensor biz which is why Leica went to CMOSIS and later TowerJazz (I suspect) for their needs for some cameras… and Sony for others.

I agree though. The image was amazing within the useable ranges.
 

Hausen

Active member
Please keep posting. I am thinking of downsizing to an M11 + WATE + 90 Summicron from my Hassy 907x + 4 lenses. Can't be bothered with the weight anymore and as an amateur going back to Leica isn't really isn't a step down. I am a long exposure guy and the ability to turn off LENR makes this doable again.
 
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glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
The M11 (I have two) is as good as I have seen on a FF camera ....but its not competitive with MF (any brand) for landscape . It can not overcome the advantage of a larger sensor . This does not mean you can not produce stunning image quality with an M11 ...but if you primary objective is creating images with tons of detail and perhaps print them big ....MF wins every time .

This hasn't changed but now the M11 is competitive (image quality ) with anything available in FF digital . That may be enough for your intended applications .

Also keep in mind that at 60MPs ....your files show every weakness in your technique . You will easily see ..very small misses in focus , slight camera motion and just about anything the photographer can screw up . This why when I shoot sports ..I am happy with a 24MP Sl2-s body . Its more forgiving .
 
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