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Next IQ4 firmware update?

fjablo

Active member
Just an outside view, but Phase One being sold from one private equity company to the next was probably not helpful for IQ4 development / improvements. The company I work for has gone through 2 mergers in the last 5 years and both have caused serious delays to product development and had an overall negative impact on decision-making and management attention. Probably even worse if private equity is involved..

A maybe interesting sidenote in todays blog post from Ming Thein (who may or may not have some good industry connections from his time at Hasselblad?):
"...I have a feeling Pentax may be next, along with noises of a Phase One buyout by Sony..." https://blog.mingthein.com/2020/06/25/the-beginning-of-the-end/
 

cly

Member
... interview with Chief Visionary Officer Lau Nørgaard is on our Project Lemonade Archive where he discusses some of the reasons the IQ4 rollout was rougher than previous IQ launches.
+1

While I am on an IQ250 (an IQ4 back is, unfortunately, out of reach), I closely follow the development of the IQ4 series - being puzzled by the current firmware bugs. Having watched this interview I'm rather optimistic that things will change ... This interview is definitely worth watching if one is interested in the technical background.

Chris
 

onasj

Active member
We all agree that the IQ4 files are great. But a camera's / back's firmware should facilitate—or at the very least, not impede—getting those files. 1.5 years after receiving my IQ4/XF outfit, the autoISO doesn't work, the camera still isn't stable, and basic connectivity with mobile wireless devices that is present in literally every other digital camera I own (seven total from Nikon, Sony, and Leica) is still missing. How many dozen software engineers could be hired for a year by the lost IQ4 sales that these firmware shortcomings have caused?
 

tcdeveau

Well-known member
I don't really have a horse in this race, but I'm not sure I've seen the level of dissatisfaction with P1 among members/users in my years of being a GetDPI member as I have with the IQ4. Seems like at least once every couple months a new thread about IQ4 firmware pops up and how more work needs to be done. There are, of course, people that are perfectly satisfied with the IQ4 150 but it seems like there are a good number out there not satisfied too.

When you go to the P1 website, there's language like "extraordinary", "ultimate camera", "infinite possibilities"....my own impression is that they need to do better if they want to position themselves at the apex of the digital camera world with backs that cost $40k plus. File quality is only part of the equation.

I'm not sure any camera manufacturer is exactly doing well these days so I could care less about behind-the-scenes speculation, but I hope they can get out some more firmware updates sooner rather than later for all those invested in the system. Seems to be a great platform and it looks like they've introduced some great features since launch (like frame averaging and dual exposure) but have a ways to go.

In general, it's probably good that there are currently no new MF sensors announced from Sony. I think the industry (MF sector in particular) and end users could use a break from the current 2-3 year upgrade cycle, and in P1's case, give manufacturers time to get the hardware/firmware caught up with the sensor tech, or get caught up with lens roadmaps (like I'm waiting on Nikon to do). I was starting to think it might take an IQ5 to get the IQ4 platform to where people wanted it, but if they can do it with the existing IQ4 platform, more power to them :thumbup:

I'm still hoping to invest in a P1 back at some point (Achromatic preferred) when/if it makes sense and I can justify it, but until then, back to the sidelines for me :watch:
 

erlingmm

Active member
I just have to say I am perfectly happy with the XF/IQ4. Maybe because I was new to the system when I bought it last year, impressed by the file quality, the averaging, and now the dual exposure. Also Profoto integration and tethering.
I did not buy it on “promises”, just “as is”, anticipating further updates.
I was really upbeat by the video with Lau, but I have patience.
The worst would be if the gave up on the IQ4, came out with some IQ5 due to hardware limitations, charging another 25k...
 

earburner

Member
I just started looking into this, figuring I could build a better web based version! Glad to learn it's easy haha.
Two access points, a switch that supports port mirroring and a copy of wireshark on you laptop will tell you all you need to know... :D
 

earburner

Member
The Adhoc WLAN functionality is not the problem. You can now connect to IQ4 on your mobile phone via WiFi without any problems.

Pretty much any cell phone can configure a hot spot. Then you can immediately connect to your mobile phone and IQ4 - try it out.

The problem is - they don't have a capture pilot for IQ4 that runs on their cell phones (similar to a desktop computer). So there is no control.

Greetings Gerd
Just to point out, if you connect to your phones hotspot, your phone acts as an access point and is not a Adhoc network :)
 

Gerd

Member
But that doesn't change the functionality that I need. I have a perfectly functioning IP connection between IQ4 and my cell phone. :) :)

Many notebooks can no longer configure WLAN access points because Intel no longer provides the appropriate drivers for the new chipsets. I do the same with my Windows tablet / notebook via a hotspot and control IQ4 via Capture One via IP / Hotspot WLAN outside in the field.

Greetings Gerd
 

earburner

Member
But that doesn't change the functionality that I need. I have a perfectly functioning IP connection between IQ4 and my cell phone. :) :)

Many notebooks can no longer configure WLAN access points because Intel no longer provides the appropriate drivers for the new chipsets. I do the same with my Windows tablet / notebook via a hotspot and control IQ4 via Capture One via IP / Hotspot WLAN outside in the field.

Greetings Gerd
It kinda changes functionality, if you have a ipad with no 4g you cannot create a hotspot, you can only connect to a network, hence the iq3 creates a adhoc SSID that you select on the ipad and connect to it... it is also likely if you have no 4g reception you wont be able to setup a hotspot. Also it is very likely for security reasons you wont be able to access services on the hotspot network from the hotspot provider.

It is not a Driver issue on your laptop, it looks like Microsoft have effectively removed this from windows 10. I can create a hotspot on my laptop, but that because I have a 4g mobile built into my laptop :)
 

docholliday

Well-known member
It kinda changes functionality, if you have a ipad with no 4g you cannot create a hotspot, you can only connect to a network, hence the iq3 creates a adhoc SSID that you select on the ipad and connect to it... it is also likely if you have no 4g reception you wont be able to setup a hotspot. Also it is very likely for security reasons you wont be able to access services on the hotspot network from the hotspot provider.

It is not a Driver issue on your laptop, it looks like Microsoft have effectively removed this from windows 10. I can create a hotspot on my laptop, but that because I have a 4g mobile built into my laptop :)
You can always install Connectify on any Windows box with or without WWAN and make a virtual AP. I use it all the time to give a download portal to attendees when I lecture. Easier than using public/hotel/convention wifi to download slowly from the web. Even though many Intel drivers have removed the Direct connect driver, Connectify still works. If WWAN exists, you can use it to share the WWAN connection as a virtual router without having tethering available on the cellular plan.

I've also used it to create an AP, then run an FTP server on a laptop so that multiple shooters with Canon 1D+WFT can FTP the raws over to the laptop. I then set up a hot folder to monitor that FTP root and some scripting in either C1 or LR to move the files around.
 

BFD

Active member
If it's true that they're trying to sell P1 to Sony, then no wonder nothing is being done with regard to firmware updates or new product developments. They're busy trying to negotiate a deal and then Sony will start issuing updates if and when they take over.
Ehhh... It's been pretty crappy since the IQ4 debut which is nearly 2 years ago. Since then they've released a new camera and a couple Capture One updates. I don't think reorganization from a deal is the problem.
 

onasj

Active member
If it's true that they're trying to sell P1 to Sony, then no wonder nothing is being done with regard to firmware updates or new product developments. They're busy trying to negotiate a deal and then Sony will start issuing updates if and when they take over.
I'm rooting for Sony to buy Phase One, assuming that means fewer firmware bugs, fewer advertised but non-working features, and more regular updates!

Other than Ming's brief mention of "noise", I haven't seen any other rumors on this possibility however.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
I personally don't see a Sony purchase of P1 a big advantage, IMO Sony has always been a 1 and done type solution for their cameras. Similar to Nikon and Canon. I can't remember Sony ever adding a new feature set to a camera, only fixes to things that did not work as planned (same as Nikon and Canon). I agree that Sony, Nikon and Canon are able to bring a less bug free camera when released.

The only camera companies I see adding new features to existing bodies are Hasselblad (so far they have done a good job on adding features to the X1D line) and Fuji. Fuji is famous for continuing to add new and improved features to their cameras. And they are also well known for bring New features to older bodes something none of the other have done.

Paul C
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
I personally don't see a Sony purchase of P1 a big advantage, IMO Sony has always been a 1 and done type solution for their cameras. Similar to Nikon and Canon. I can't remember Sony ever adding a new feature set to a camera, only fixes to things that did not work as planned (same as Nikon and Canon). I agree that Sony, Nikon and Canon are able to bring a less bug free camera when released.

The only camera companies I see adding new features to existing bodies are Hasselblad (so far they have done a good job on adding features to the X1D line) and Fuji. Fuji is famous for continuing to add new and improved features to their cameras. And they are also well known for bring New features to older bodes something none of the other have done.

Paul C
I don't think it makes any sense for Sony or any other firm to buy Phase One.

Phase One operates in a nische, can they do it successfully, it is fine for Phase One.

If Phase One is not profitable, they will not be around.

It seems that DJI has acquired a majority stake in Hasselblad, for some obscure reason. But, we don't see what is coming out of that ownership.

Sometime, it does happen that a company owner wants to make a camera. That was the probable reason Kyocera acquired Yashica and the Contax name, but Contax went RIP with the owner of Kyocera.

It seems that Phase One is going into industrial sectors, like cultural heritage and aerial photography. In those sectors, having a solution that works may matter more than costs.

But, there are a lot of bean counters in the industry. Once business is not so great, management often gets laser focus on cutting costs.

Best regards
Erik
 

ErikKaffehr

Well-known member
I don't really have a horse in this race, but I'm not sure I've seen the level of dissatisfaction with P1 among members/users in my years of being a GetDPI member as I have with the IQ4. Seems like at least once every couple months a new thread about IQ4 firmware pops up and how more work needs to be done. There are, of course, people that are perfectly satisfied with the IQ4 150 but it seems like there are a good number out there not satisfied too.

When you go to the P1 website, there's language like "extraordinary", "ultimate camera", "infinite possibilities"....my own impression is that they need to do better if they want to position themselves at the apex of the digital camera world with backs that cost $40k plus. File quality is only part of the equation.

I'm not sure any camera manufacturer is exactly doing well these days so I could care less about behind-the-scenes speculation, but I hope they can get out some more firmware updates sooner rather than later for all those invested in the system. Seems to be a great platform and it looks like they've introduced some great features since launch (like frame averaging and dual exposure) but have a ways to go.

In general, it's probably good that there are currently no new MF sensors announced from Sony. I think the industry (MF sector in particular) and end users could use a break from the current 2-3 year upgrade cycle, and in P1's case, give manufacturers time to get the hardware/firmware caught up with the sensor tech, or get caught up with lens roadmaps (like I'm waiting on Nikon to do). I was starting to think it might take an IQ5 to get the IQ4 platform to where people wanted it, but if they can do it with the existing IQ4 platform, more power to them :thumbup:

I'm still hoping to invest in a P1 back at some point (Achromatic preferred) when/if it makes sense and I can justify it, but until then, back to the sidelines for me :watch:
The digital camera market is shrinking, so I would guess that sensor makers rationalise, too. I would guess that we are going to see like a slower development cycle for large image sensors and that designs will be shared across sensor sizes. It seems that the present Sony sensor is available in sizes from APS-C to 54x41 mm, at 26, 61, 102 and 151 MP resolutions. My guess may be that those sensors will hang around for four years.

Camera firmware development is another thing. It may be difficult to recruit engineers having the needed skills.

Best regards
Erik
 

docholliday

Well-known member
I'm rooting for Sony to buy Phase One, assuming that means fewer firmware bugs, fewer advertised but non-working features, and more regular updates!

Other than Ming's brief mention of "noise", I haven't seen any other rumors on this possibility however.
Sony buying anything on the consumer side (not their pro AV/studio stuff) means more bugs and worse service!
 

Gerd

Member
Sony buying anything on the consumer side (not their pro AV/studio stuff) means more bugs and worse service!
That is exactly my opinion. Apart from that, Sony has a lot of aggressive investors and they only want one thing - to see returns.

Greetings Gerd
 

gerald.d

Well-known member
I personally don't see a Sony purchase of P1 a big advantage, IMO Sony has always been a 1 and done type solution for their cameras. Similar to Nikon and Canon. I can't remember Sony ever adding a new feature set to a camera, only fixes to things that did not work as planned (same as Nikon and Canon). I agree that Sony, Nikon and Canon are able to bring a less bug free camera when released.

The only camera companies I see adding new features to existing bodies are Hasselblad (so far they have done a good job on adding features to the X1D line) and Fuji. Fuji is famous for continuing to add new and improved features to their cameras. And they are also well known for bring New features to older bodes something none of the other have done.

Paul C
All the L-mount alliance companies have added significant new features to their cameras after launch.

Sigma fp just got a major update, Panasonic S1 had a big one, and Leica just added multishot to the SL2.

Kind regards,


Gerald.
 
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