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Idiots ! How did Leica Brasil get away with funding a video and showing it without running it by Leica Germany ? Leica should close Leica Brazil ....just like Nikon did with their distributor .
Israel actually produces some of the finest products and also produces the Leaf DB's. Israeli products are well known for their quality too. Its beyond the scope of this forum to communicate the human sensibilities needed to show solidarity against products made in countries with known human rights abuses against religion, gender, or simply wanting freedom from oppressive authoritarian communist or socialist rule. Since most of us are just keyboard warriors with a limited scope and understanding of politics, boycotting is more effective than you think. One person's words can be a million others actions. Look at Apple and Nike boycotts over child labor. It works for cameras too.Politicians, any ideology, any nationality, are becoming laughable, or maybe they always were. Boycott this, sanction that. The only ones to be affected are ordinary people. Politicians and bankers always float to the top with their Champagne and luxury cars. I'll buy Iranian oil, Chinese phones and American software any day given the possibility. Actually, my phone is Chinese, my Mac runs American software, and I'm sure some of the oil in this country is Iranian :thumbup:
Does North Korea or Israel make anything that I could buy? Nuclear bombs?
Most boycotts happen for political and economical reasons, very often with a strong scent of criminal activity, also on state/government level. Human rights abuse happen under all kinds of political systems, although rarely in western style democracies. Socialism is mostly dead, except for in Cuba. The fact that a country has a one party system doesn't mean that they are socialist, and certainly not China.Israel actually produces some of the finest products and also produces the Leaf DB's. Israeli products are well known for their quality too. Its beyond the scope of this forum to communicate the human sensibilities needed to show solidarity against products made in countries with known human rights abuses against religion, gender, or simply wanting freedom from oppressive authoritarian communist or socialist rule. Since most of us are just keyboard warriors with a limited scope and understanding of politics, boycotting is more effective than you think. One person's words can be a million others actions. Look at Apple and Nike boycotts over child labor. It works for cameras too.
Well, that and Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, . . .Socialism is mostly dead, except for in Cuba.
For now, yes, but it's quietly being assassinated by the right-wing populist parties. Hopefully the trend will turn before it's too late.Well, that and Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, . . .
I’m betting that Venezuelan’s don’t share your opinion.For now, yes, but it's quietly being assassinated by the right-wing populist parties. Hopefully the trend will turn before it's too late.
The Venezuelan government has failed not because they are socialist, but because they are incompetent. Being sanctioned by USA, which started under Obama who for some reason claimed that Venezuela was a security threat to the USA, hasn't helped much either.I’m betting that Venezuelan’s don’t share your opinion.
Absolutely, which was to be expected :ROTFL::loco:
Do you think maybe this has taken an off topic slant ? Its not a debate about socialism or censorship .
Have you read the OP's first comment or bothered to read the article? We're right on topic.:loco:
Do you think maybe this has taken an off topic slant ? Its not a debate about socialism or censorship .
Yes I read the article .....its you that missed the point of the post . This forum isn t comments to the New York Times .Have you read the OP's first comment or bothered to read the article? We're right on topic.
The article is about censorship because Leica is evoking a very disturbing and regrettable part of China's history. Saatchi/Saatchi is one of the biggest agencies in the world. It's hard to imagine Leica knew nothing of this, but their indignation over any misunderstandings or false conclusions is laughable at best. The video in question seems to be accurate in regards to its content and historical fact. And so there's no misunderstanding here...As the Sunset Bar states...Anything goes.Yes I read the article .....its you that missed the point of the post . This forum isn t comments to the New York Times .
In the context of a photography forum ....the relevant point is that Leica is in hot water with the Chinese government . A huge very important economic market for them . Should this dispute escalate ..losing the Chinese market would be a significant blow to Leica as a viable concern .
This became twisted into using personal social based boycotts of any company you disagree with . Thanks in no small part to your interpretation and posts .
Well, Chile under Pinochet was hardly the best example of Neoliberal Economics (Reaganomics or Trickle-down Economics as it became known in the States). Not that neoliberal economics has been universally great here...I’m betting that Venezuelan’s don’t share your opinion.
It's ironic that deregulation under neoliberal economics is what has made the Chinese rich. Unregulated capitalists will always look for the cheapest places to manufacture stuff to increase their profits, and oppressive regimes will mostly be cheaper than democratic ones. China, which is increasingly capitalist, doesn't like to be reminded about their unpleasant past though, although the present isn't so shiny either, if you look a bit behind the facades.Well, Chile under Pinochet was hardly the best example of Neoliberal Economics (Reaganomics or Trickle-down Economics as it became known in the States). Not that neoliberal economics has been universally great here...
Oh yes indeed lets point a finger at China for being yet another example of a 'bad' Government which doesn't do this or that or the other thing as well as some countries are believed to do...very funny reading.It's ironic that deregulation under neoliberal economics is what has made the Chinese rich. Unregulated capitalists will always look for the cheapest places to manufacture stuff to increase their profits, and oppressive regimes will mostly be cheaper than democratic ones. China, which is increasingly capitalist, doesn't like to be reminded about their unpleasant past though, although the present isn't so shiny either, if you look a bit behind the facades.
So Leica has to go, at least for a while, and then quietly, in a few months, everything will return to normal. The Chinese are also very pragmatic.
I mostly agree with you Peter, and while I believe that exports to western countries have been important for the development of the Chinese economy in the past, trade within Asia will be increasingly important in the future.Oh yes indeed lets point a finger at China for being yet another example of a 'bad' Government which doesn't do this or that or the other thing as well as some countries are believed to do...very funny reading.
China delivers a miracle to itself every day - feeding a population of over 1.3bn people. Middle class Westerners on a forum because they share interest in photographic toys have absolutely no idea of the practical implications of delivering this daily miracle. It is also a falsehood to think China became rich because a few Western companies built some factories over there. China has improved its GDP per head of population ratio because in letting China into the WTO the 'developed' world legitimized Chinese currency and trade and allowed China access to capital, wghich it used to begin the building of a modern manufacturing based economy now rapidly ovong into a service based economy in record time - over the last few decades China has been able to implement a massive urbanisation of its population which continues to raise the standard of living of each and every citizen in China and has managed to deliver goods and services to buyers around the world at low prices, as well as being largely responsible for keeping most Asian countries (including Australia and Canada btw) out of a deep recession after the so called GFC.
China doesn't 'need' Leica or any associate of Leica to dump a colonialist perspective on the country and pretend some hipster journalist and his camera recording some event is anything more than a 'Hollywood' glamourised piece of ant-Chinese Government propaganda.
US Presidents wanted to bring/impose their version of 'democracy' to the Middle East - and all we have to show for this piece of aggressive colonialist nonsense is a bunch of broken and destroyed countries and a refugee crisis that is dominating political and social agendas across the world.
the very fact that supposedly grown up people on this forum still mouth inanities like 'neo-liberal' and 'economic rationalism' as some sort of supposed criticism underlines just how much silliness can exist when people take their standard of living for granted.
In a socialist's world - economic irrationality is somehow a preferred alternative - good luck with that.
Well, at least you have not resorted to silly stereotypes. (BTW, have we met? And when did I ever state I take my standard of living for granted? I am pretty sure I would not be that stupid.)...the very fact that supposedly grown up people on this forum still mouth inanities like 'neo-liberal' and 'economic rationalism' as some sort of supposed criticism underlines just how much silliness can exist when people take their standard of living for granted....