Your favourite “bang for the buck” lenses

[John Leathwick]

For sure. It's uncharted territory. For all I know a slight tweaking to the spacing might have sorted it out.

Edit: This discussion motivated me to go back to the files I had saved when evaluating the lens. Where it was in focus, it was really good -- clean, crisp and sharp. There's definitely strong field curvature, but maybe John (@jng) is right and it could have been sorted out with a spacing adjustment.

Rob, the curvature that you describe for the Nikkor 65 sounds very like the curvature exhibited by a Zeiss ZM Distagon 35mm F/1.4 that I used to use on a Sony A7R2. In that case, the general consensus in the user community was that introduction of the sensor cover glass into the optical system was the issue, and as one particularly clever punter discovered, it fixed perfectly when a weak OptiSigma meniscus was added on the front. With that in place, I could shoot it wide open with even performance edge to edge, and stopped down it was a fabulous landscape lens.

-John

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Would be cool to see the legendary Nikkor SW 90 F8 in action. Some say alongside the SK SA 90 Classic it is one of the best LF lenses for digital in the sub 100mm range.

The SW 90 F8 in particular was back in the LF days often lauded as being the sharpest 4x5 wide angle, but it is not clear if it was hyperbole and whether vs. the SK 90 SA classic or SK SA 90 XL (they are the same except that 90 SA classic is a cut down rear element version with smaller IC).

The later RS 90 HR W breaks down when shifted 20mm, so it could be that the Nikkor hits a nice sweet spot as an altetnative to the SW90 on MFD FF on shift bodies like an R for example.

Its also not expensive nowadays. Below 90 it gets a bit murkierI I found anything below 65 in particluar not so good also because the non digital wide angles were not calculated to factor in the sensor glass and create smearing when shifting (which the RS 55 digital etc. aimed to correct).

Anyone shot the Nikkor SW 90 F8 on an IQ4 with shift?

 

[stevev]

"Anyone shot the Nikkor SW 90 F8 on an IQ4 with shift?"

No, but I have the SW Nikkor 65mm, SW 75mm and SW 90mm f/8 and have shot all of them on a Cambo Actus G.

Not using an IQ4 but using a Sigma fp L "back" with shift. This 280 megapixel (21K x 15K) stitched file from the 75mm shows what these old Nikkor lenses are capable of.

Low cost and high quality - absolutely!

Full scene, then link to full size JPG.



The 90/8 and 75 are pretty close, based on my previous testing.

Link to full size JPG in Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ar4g...rama.jpg?rlkey=5df25h0we051od46lza0hvwyg&dl=0

 

[corvus]

"Anyone shot the Nikkor SW 90 F8 on an IQ4 with shift?"

No, but I have the SW Nikkor 65mm, SW 75mm and SW 90mm f/8 and have shot all of them on a Cambo Actus G.

Not using an IQ4 but using a Sigma fp L "back" with shift. This 280 megapixel (21K x 15K) stitched file from the 75mm shows what these old Nikkor lenses are capable of.

Low cost and high quality - absolutely!

Full scene, then link to full size JPG.

View attachment 212171

The 90/8 and 75 are pretty close, based on my previous testing.

Link to full size JPG in Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ar4g...rama.jpg?rlkey=5df25h0we051od46lza0hvwyg&dl=0

How many shots did you stitch together here, Steve ? (I'm guessing at least eight) Did you use LCCs?

 

[stevev]

Hi,

I used 9 shots, 3x3, camera in landscape orientation, f/11, focused once in the centre of the central image. No LCCs. I did reduce some peripheral shading using the Lens Correction tool in C1. I tilted the camera down to get some detail in the upper row, since this was just a test shot.

The Cambo/lens combination is relatively light and compact and fits comfortably in a small Thinktank Retrospective shoulder bag - with a second lens. Like John Leathwick, I really like the RZ67 lenses (50, 65, 75, 90). They are clearly better, but they are bulkier and much heavier so I need a backpack and a good reason to take them out for a shoot. The Nikkors get me most of way there, most of the time, for my purposes.

The cyan shading on the Rodenstock 55mm APO Sironar Digital is much more noticeable than any peripheral shading on the Nikkors, at least the 75 and 90/8. It is probably better/sharper in the central zone but weaker on the periphery compared with the 75 & 90.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Very good stuff Steve.

Thank you.

The Sigma chip has the same pixel pitch as the new Hassy back and IQ4; the resolution of the SW Nikkors is remarkable indeed ... I do not see much of a difference vs. RS HR here. The implication of this is, by extrapolation, that these lenses will work very well with the Hassy and P1 backs on bellows cams or say an R.

The SfpL is actually sort of a secret tip – you get a 60 megapixel digital back for like 2-3k ...

There's even a dude who made an adapter for Alpa cameras ... for both Sigma SfpL and Leica SL (just browste the IG). Its probably the cheapest "digital back" out there, if you know about it, lol.

http://instagr.am/p/CsV68VxujcE/

Alternatively, you can get the SL3 and then use the flip up screen and have the same Sony BSI chip as in the bigger Hassy / IQ4 and mount it as a back onto an Alpa cam.

Nice stuff.


You can moun it on the shift bodies and short barrel Rodies >50mm (due to FFD) can be used with enormous shift on the Sigma "back".

 

[corvus]

Hi,

I used 9 shots, 3x3, camera in landscape orientation, f/11, focused once in the centre of the central image. No LCCs. I did reduce some peripheral shading using the Lens Correction tool in C1. I tilted the camera down to get some detail in the upper row, since this was just a test shot.

The Cambo/lens combination is relatively light and compact and fits comfortably in a small Thinktank Retrospective shoulder bag - with a second lens. Like John Leathwick, I really like the RZ67 lenses (50, 65, 75, 90). They are clearly better, but they are bulkier and much heavier so I need a backpack and a good reason to take them out for a shoot. The Nikkors get me most of way there, most of the time, for my purposes.

The cyan shading on the Rodenstock 55mm APO Sironar Digital is much more noticeable than any peripheral shading on the Nikkors, at least the 75 and 90/8. It is probably better/sharper in the central zone but weaker on the periphery compared with the 75 & 90.

Cheers,
Steve

A very good article with helpful insights! And the fact that you achieved this result without LCC is remarkable.

Torsten

 

[corvus]

Very good stuff Steve.

Thank you.

The Sigma chip has the same pixel pitch as the new Hassy back and IQ4; the resolution of the SW Nikkors is remarkable indeed ... I do not see much of a difference vs. RS HR here. The implication of this is, by extrapolation, that these lenses will work very well with the Hassy and P1 backs on bellows cams or say an R.

The SfpL is actually sort of a secret tip – you get a 60 megapixel digital back for like 2-3k ...

There's even a dude who made an adapter for Alpa cameras ... for both Sigma SfpL and Leica SL (just browste the IG). Its probably the cheapest "digital back" out there, if you know about it, lol.

http://instagr.am/p/CsV68VxujcE/

Alternatively, you can get the SL3 and then use the flip up screen and have the same Sony BSI chip as in the bigger Hassy / IQ4 and mount it as a back onto an Alpa cam.

Nice stuff.
View attachment 212177

You can moun it on the shift bodies and short barrel Rodies >50mm (due to FFD) can be used with enormous shift on the Sigma "back".

This is definitely worth considering. Only the camera body with the FFD 20mm limits the use of symmetrical wide-angle lenses <47mm. Below that you could use retrofocus lenses or stitch it together for wider angles like steve. But otherwise a really great setup!

 

[Paul Spinnler]

This is definitely worth considering. Only the camera body with the FFD 20mm limits the use of symmetrical wide-angle lenses <47mm. Below that you could use retrofocus lenses or stitch it together for wider angles like steve. But otherwise a really great setup!

For stitching with Nikkors it is actually a super cost effective setup!

 

[stevev]

Paul,

I need to learn more about the Alpa. What model is that? What movements are possible?

Thanks,
Steve.

 

[Paul Spinnler]

Hi Steve

This is the STC - 18mm rise and fall or shift left and right, but not at the same time. That's why it is so compact. STC stands for "shift travel compact". One of the big value adds is that all Alpa cameras are made to the highest production standards (looking amazing as you can see in the pic) and essentially need servicing maybe once every 10 years, not even.

The Alpa system has many bodies and everything is interchangeable. The world's best known fine art photographers are shooting Alpa, incl. Andreas Guesky, Thomas Struth, Candida Höfer, et. al. The reason is the insane precision of the bodies which are build with inner bearings within a frame as opposed to two plates on top of each other (Cambo, Arca). You can customize them with wooden grips and since they are build symmetrically it is often easy to quickly swap positions from horizontal to vertical, etc. by just removing the camera and turning it 90 degrees.

I personally own Max, TC, Pano and STC - the Max for me is the core piece followed by the TC, STC and Pano in terms of usage frequency. Each model as different shift ways. Max 25mm up 18 left right. Incredibly versiatile. You can even attach film holders to them.

Let me know if you have questions.

The point about Alpa is that you buy a body and then usually you'll keep it for many, many years - ie insane value. And if there's anything they can individually repair all elements. Its small business with long standing employees.

The highest quality stuff IMHO.

 

[Duff photographer]

Another lens or rather series of lenses are the Yashica lenses for the 35mm Yashica/Contax mount. All from the SSB's to the ML's (I've only tried the primes, so can't comment on the zooms). Said to be a cheaper and lesser alternative to Zeiss, but I find they can keep up with their bigger brothers/sisters. Very decent resolution, nice bokeh, and all that. ...and all for a double figure sum in whatever is your favourite currency.

Cheers,
Duff

 

[scho]

I would second the C/Y mount lenses. One of my favorite wides on the GFX 50r was the Contax 28/2.8 Distagon.

 

[stevev]

Paul asked earlier about the Nikkor SW 90mm f/8.

Here is the same scene as the SW 75 from a few posts ago, but shot with the Nikkor SW 90mm f/8, followed by a link to the full size JPG.

As before, focused once in the centre of the central frame. Three rows and columns at f/11. Sharpening as I would normally do.

I think the Nikkor SW 90/8 is very close to the SW 75, but the 75 may be a hair better.

Now I am wondering if the Nikkor SW 120/8 is as good as these two, or perhaps even better again?

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

 

[Doppler9000]

Paul asked earlier about the Nikkor SW 90mm f/8.

Here is the same scene as the SW 75 from a few posts ago, but shot with the Nikkor SW 90mm f/8, followed by a link to the full size JPG.

As before, focused once in the centre of the central frame. Three rows and columns at f/11. Sharpening as I would normally do.

I think the Nikkor SW 90/8 is very close to the SW 75, but the 75 may be a hair better.

Now I am wondering if the Nikkor SW 120/8 is as good as these two, or perhaps even better again?

View attachment 212212

Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

This seems to be a repeat of the image in the 75mm post, above.

 

[MGrayson]

I always wonder, given high pixel counts, whether or not an old shift lens is better than cropping a new lens. I just took out an XCD 28 and a Mamiya 645 50 Shift and compared a 10,000 pixel wide crop to a 19,000 pixel wide 3 shot pano. Pics taken at f/8 and f/11. In the center, the Mamiya crushed it, being pretty much as sharp, but almost twice the focal length. At the edges (shifted 15mm or so), the Mamiya (CA corrected) still won despite being softer than the center.
Matt

 

[rdeloe]

I always wonder, given high pixel counts, whether or not an old shift lens is better than cropping a new lens. I just took out an XCD 28 and a Mamiya 645 50 Shift and compared a 10,000 pixel wide crop to a 19,000 pixel wide 3 shot pano. Pics taken at f/8 and f/11. In the center, the Mamiya crushed it, being pretty much as sharp, but almost twice the focal length. At the edges (shifted 15mm or so), the Mamiya (CA corrected) still won despite being softer than the center.
Matt

That lens (Mamiya 645 50mm shift) does not have a good reputation on high resolution digital sensors, so if yours is performing this well you are very fortunate. Don't sell it!

 

[MGrayson]

That lens (Mamiya 645 50mm shift) does not have a good reputation on high resolution digital sensors, so if yours is performing this well you are very fortunate. Don't sell it!

Don’t get me wrong it is NOT as good as a modern lens, but it’s better than a cropped 28mm scaled up. The 28 is a lot easier to use!

(this is my second 50/4 shift, and it IS much better than my first one)

 

[MGrayson]

Ok. Here's the 19,000 pixel wide panorama with the Mamiya 50 shifted 15mm each way and centered. The camera was dead level, hence the lovely composition . I wanted to shift the Mamiya as far as it would go left-right.


And the XCD 28 cropped to match. There is some geometric difference. Since the 28 is corrected in software, I'm assuming that the Mamiya isn't perfectly rectilinear.


Here's the Mamiya at 50% cropped from the center


And the XCD 28 at 100%


Left edge, Mamiya 50% crop


Left edge, XCD 28 100% crop


Yes, the XCD 28 isn't the sharpest lens in the world at the edges. Still, it's interesting.

Matt

 

[Knorp]

I get it - the ideal location for some "hanky-panky" with your camera ...