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Thread: Focus Peaking is expensive

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    Focus Peaking is expensive

    Ouch!

    Having established how good focus peaking is on the NEX 5n and A77 I've suddenly realised that there is a whole world of MF lenses open to me . . . so I thought I'd start gently, and I've had a little ebay binge this weekend . . . .

    Leica R 28-90 f2.8/f4.5
    Leica R 21-35 f3.5/f4
    Leica R 180 f2.8 APO

    all together for about the list price of a 35 'lux.
    the 28-90 has arrived, and it's a thing of beauty and wonder. The others should be waiting for me after I get home from a 2 day trip to Germany.

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    LOL - enjoy. I will look and see if the image thread has samples.

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    No one said you had to buy Leica Lenses as your first test lenses
    But, since you have the disposable income... Enjoy, and do post samples made with your new(used) Leica R Glass...

    Contax G1 film camera with CZ-G 45mm f/2 and basic accessories on sale now in Classified

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Yeah right - gently does it
    However these are hardly pocketable lenses for a NEX, but A77 or A900 for sure.
    Anyhow, if you're finished playing with the 28-90, well - think of me please ...

    Happy shooting, Jono.
    All the very best.
    Bart ...

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    COngrats on the new acquisitions, Jono....I have gone the opposite and gone for some smaller lenses for the GXR (40 cron, CV 28 f/3.5, Zeiss C-Biogon 35, Zeiss C-Sonnar 50, Contax G Zeiss 90 M mount). Your bigger lenses will look great on the A77 for sure...
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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    LOL - enjoy. I will look and see if the image thread has samples.
    I've been looking for some of these images on the A77 thread too.....haven't seen any yet, did I miss them Jono? What adapter are you using for the Leica R to Sony Alpha? I've got a bag full of R lenses myself that it might be fun to try on something like the A77.

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    Subscriber Member Chuck Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Jono, been doing some testing here myself. Your gonna die when you see how great that R glass looks in front of the A77 and the Nex-5N both. Seeing you handhold those big lenses with the Nex-5N attached should be a real laugh! Be careful the body doesn't get lost inside the mount!...

    I just got my adapter today for my M glass on the Nex-5N, and all I can say is I am stunned. I'd have never believed it if I wasn't seeing it with my own eyes. The focus peaking is freaky good, so easy to use. The image quality is far more than I had ever expected....

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Hmmm. Maybe a Nex 7 companion for my DMR is the future?
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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Quote Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
    Hmmm. Maybe a Nex 7 companion for my DMR is the future?
    HI There Jaap
    I certainly think so - I've posted some images with these lenses in another thread. They make a great combination, and handling really isn't that strange (actually, I'm beginning to like it).
    One of the advantages over older solutions is that one doesn't have to modify the lenses.

    Ben and Chuck and Ashwin
    The A77 will have to wait for a while - actually, until after I've seen how these lenses do on the NEX7 - no point sending them all off to Spain for Lietax mounts and then wish they still had the R mount!

    M5 Guy
    I've got some contax G lenses - but I'm not keen on the graunchy focus on the metabones adapter, and the sharp edge on the Kipon one. Anyway, if I want to use small lenses, then I just bung on M lenses (but IMHO I'd rather use them on the M9!)

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Quote Originally Posted by jaapv View Post
    Hmmm. Maybe a Nex 7 companion for my DMR is the future?
    I'm certainly tempted by it. Since I don't have an immediate need for it I can wait until production resumes and its bugs (if any) are worked out. I'm also looking forward to Leica's mirrorless camera.

    If the NEX 7 had a bigger sensor, or 16-bit pixels, or an R-adapter that operated the auto diaphragm, or it had sensor-based stabilization, my resistance would evaporate in an instant. Any one of those 'wish-list' features would push me over the edge.

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    to which setting you have focus peeking?
    I admit that I still feel focus peeking suggests a certain distance "range" where the edges stay red while I modify the distance slightly.
    And for other subjects it doesnt change color at all.
    So far I still feel much safer with magnification.
    Am I doing something wrong here?
    I have set it peeking to strong.
    Thanks, Tom

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    I'm certainly tempted by it. Since I don't have an immediate need for it I can wait until production resumes and its bugs (if any) are worked out. I'm also looking forward to Leica's mirrorless camera.

    If the NEX 7 had a bigger sensor, or 16-bit pixels, or an R-adapter that operated the auto diaphragm, or it had sensor-based stabilization, my resistance would evaporate in an instant. Any one of those 'wish-list' features would push me over the edge.
    Hi There Doug
    I'd also like to see sensor based stabilisation or a bigger sensor (later maybe).

    Having an adapter which opens the auto-diaphragm however really isn't much of an issue, The EVF is quite good enough to gain up adequately at any light/aperture combination where shooting is possible - of course, this means that you set the aperture you want, then get on with the shooting whilst keeping an eye on the focusing and the shutter speed. To be honest, I'm more keen on the 'full time' depth of preview feature . . . . than having the camera control the aperture.

    Maybe this just pushes you over the edge!

    Why not get hold of a cheap adapter, then see if you can borrow a NEX 5n with a viewfinder for a day or so? I'd surely lend you mine if we were a bit closer together!

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post

    Having an adapter which opens the auto-diaphragm however really isn't much of an issue, The EVF is quite good enough to gain up adequately at any light/aperture combination where shooting is possible - of course, this means that you set the aperture you want, then get on with the shooting whilst keeping an eye on the focusing and the shutter speed. To be honest, I'm more keen on the 'full time' depth of preview feature . . . . than having the camera control the aperture.
    Yes perhaps I'm making too much of this feature.

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    Yes perhaps I'm making too much of this feature.
    I think it's one of those things one expects to need . . . . . and then find that the alternative reality is actually an improvement.

    Personally it's the first time I've found working with 'the wrong lenses' to be even faintly sensible - and I'm really enjoying it. . . . . like you, I'm hoping for a Leica solution one day, which is the reason for not going down the Leitax route with the A77 - at least for the time being.

    all the best . . . surely you can borrow a 5n from some willing person?

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    I converted all my Leica R to Sony A to take advantage of the in camera stabilization. No regents as I know any r solution from Leica is going to be a while and costs a fortune.

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    Subscriber Member Chuck Jones's Avatar
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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Jono, I applaud your patience in waiting for Leica to do something new that will use the R glass. After four years of waiting myself, I finally gave up and sold it all - at the bottom of the market as it turns out. Leica did a great job of getting me to hold on until they reversed their prior announcement, and cancelled the R-10 project. That move on their part cost me several thousand dollars with the depreciation in the used value of my glass.

    I'll never again make the mistake of waiting on Leica to do anything. Personally, I think Yat is absolutely correct. Taking advantage of the in camera stabilization now is worth far more than anything Leica would release "down the road." I know if I buy another R lens, it will be to immediately convert it to Sony A mount. A bird on the card now is worth a thousand memories of those in the bushes that got away!

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Quote Originally Posted by yatlee View Post
    I converted all my Leica R to Sony A to take advantage of the in camera stabilization. No regents as I know any r solution from Leica is going to be a while and costs a fortune.
    Yat, did you compare the 28-90 Leica to the Zeiss 24-70?
    Or any other Leica vs a comparable Zeiss/Sony lens?

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Your subjects still need some amount of contrast for the peaking to work. Magnification will always be more accurate if you're trying to focus on the single point of lens focus.

    The peaking is nice for when you don't have time to use the magnification, but is much less accurate.

    Quote Originally Posted by t_streng View Post
    to which setting you have focus peeking?
    I admit that I still feel focus peeking suggests a certain distance "range" where the edges stay red while I modify the distance slightly.
    And for other subjects it doesnt change color at all.
    So far I still feel much safer with magnification.
    Am I doing something wrong here?
    I have set it peeking to strong.
    Thanks, Tom
    My Photography Blog here

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Quote Originally Posted by ampguy View Post
    Your subjects still need some amount of contrast for the peaking to work. Magnification will always be more accurate if you're trying to focus on the single point of lens focus.

    The peaking is nice for when you don't have time to use the magnification, but is much less accurate.
    I do agree that magnification is always going to be more accurate.
    Still, magnification completely screws up one's overall view of composition, and as far as i can see it's pretty pointless unless you're attached to a tripod.
    I've found peaking to work in poor lighting - even if you only manage a little sparkle here or there, practice has meant that I've been getting really good 'in focus' results - added to which it's very fast.

    years of professional video photographers with manual focus lenses can't all be wrong!

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Hi Chuck
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Jones View Post
    Jono, I applaud your patience in waiting for Leica to do something new that will use the R glass. After four years of waiting myself, I finally gave up and sold it all - at the bottom of the market as it turns out. Leica did a great job of getting me to hold on until they reversed their prior announcement, and cancelled the R-10 project. That move on their part cost me several thousand dollars with the depreciation in the used value of my glass.
    I can understand your resentment - from my point of view there's nothing like that - I've bought near the bottom of the market, and with my eyes wide open

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Jones View Post
    I'll never again make the mistake of waiting on Leica to do anything. Personally, I think Yat is absolutely correct. Taking advantage of the in camera stabilization now is worth far more than anything Leica would release "down the road." I know if I buy another R lens, it will be to immediately convert it to Sony A mount. A bird on the card now is worth a thousand memories of those in the bushes that got away!
    Well - I like using the 28-90 on the NEX 5n, and for my purposes the IS isn't really that important (I mostly shoot in good light anyway).
    But I haven't bought with the certainty or knowledge that Leica will do something - or that I'll want it if they do!
    For me, what changed things was using focus peaking - to be honest, in many circumstances I'd rather use it than AF, and I've found myself increasingly pressing the MF button on my A77 to get precise focus - or using it instead of the old focus and recompose technique.

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Chuck

    I can understand your resentment - from my point of view there's nothing like that - I've bought near the bottom of the market, and with my eyes wide open


    Well - I like using the 28-90 on the NEX 5n, and for my purposes the IS isn't really that important (I mostly shoot in good light anyway).
    But I haven't bought with the certainty or knowledge that Leica will do something - or that I'll want it if they do!
    For me, what changed things was using focus peaking - to be honest, in many circumstances I'd rather use it than AF, and I've found myself increasingly pressing the MF button on my A77 to get precise focus - or using it instead of the old focus and recompose technique.
    I'm not sure what I feel would be called resentment. More disappointment. A professional photographer's income is generated from the tools he or she uses. The work produced and delivered to clients based upon the capability of those tools. As I'm sure most of the other pro's posting here can attest to, we have to choose our gear based upon the needs of our business as much as the esthetic qualities of the images they help us produce. You don't stay in photography as a business based upon how nice your photographs look if they don't sell.

    Leica glass has never been cheap. It costs far more to hand build lenses of the R quality than it costs Canon, Nikon, or Sony to mass produce similar focal lengths. The fact that your buying and using R lenses now clearly shows what a difference that made in the end results. There is no question that when Leica made each of these R lenses, they were designed and built to be the best quality possible - not necessarily the least expensive to produce.

    Those of us investing in the R glass, at the time, got past the difficult decision to invest the amount of money required to initially acquire our working lens selections based in great part on the fact that we would use those lenses for a considerable number of years. Leica encouraged us by the promise of future body upgrades to their line. First with film, the R8 then R9, and later with the DMR when it became clear the days of using film professionally were clearly numbered.

    I made the trip myself to Photokina to discuss the R10 with Leica's corporate management, not willing to trust only the marketing hype. At the time, I had to make the tough business decision of whether to continue supporting Leica with my business by waiting until they could deliver R10 bodies, or should I instead sell off my R glass and invest into a new multi-shot MF back my business also could have used. Based upon those discussions, I chose to wait. My mistake, a bad choice, and a costly business decision.

    It's clear our circumstances are very different. Your making your own decisions based upon very different needs, and as you said, with a substantially smaller cash investment made with your eyes wide open and no future expectations. Very wise Jono.

    I hope that everyone else considering buying used Leica R glass comes to their decision based upon the same facts and considerations you are. Even at the "bottom of the market" as you judge it, your still paying a premium price today knowing your getting great lenses, some of the very best 35mm glass made at the time, but also knowing that in all likelihood there will never be another body from the Leica factory that can use them.

    Let's not forget that today, there are also quite a number of excellent lenses produced that are optimized for use on digital platforms, from companies with a clear future path which I don't personally believe Leica has, the money to execute those plans, even lower and therefore more competitive prices, better current service history, and a new product warranty when inevitably something does go wrong or simply needs an adjustment. Service rates on that old Leica glass have gone up. As the title of this thread says, Focus Peaking can be expensive... not only in the initial investment.

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuck Jones View Post
    Let's not forget that today, there are also quite a number of excellent lenses produced that are optimized for use on digital platforms, from companies with a clear future path which I don't personally believe Leica has, the money to execute those plans, even lower and therefore more competitive prices, better current service history, and a new product warranty when inevitably something does go wrong or simply needs an adjustment. Service rates on that old Leica glass have gone up. As the title of this thread says, Focus Peaking can be expensive... not only in the initial investment.
    Hi Chuck
    I'm not so cynical as you. I put a camera into leica for the sapphire glass update recently - it came back within a week, beautifully packed, excellently updated, new glass, new cover, new 1 year warranty and a complete CLA.

    As for a clear future path - I think Leica really does have that - of course, they aren't making it public (I guess they've learned their lesson over the R10). Money? the new part sale should solve that. Competitive prices? not sure how you define competitive - is a Bentley competitive? If you mean cheap, then no, I'm sure they aren't going to be cheap (would you in their situation).

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    I am lucky that I have a plethora of old legacy SLR glass including Leica, Nikon, Canon FL and Pentax Super (and SMC) Takumar. Oh and some Voigtlander Leica M mount glass. I have found that you do not need to buy the most expensive Leica glass to use it well on the Sony NEX system unless you wish to of course. Perhaps because I am perfectly able to shoot my Leica and Voigtlander glass on my M8 body I am finding the NEX system most enjoyable to use with the old SLR glass which otherwise sits in a drawer. To be honest much of it has never been used as it should have been. Mostly I have bought on a whim and then not used it much mainly through a surfeit of choice.
    For those interested I can say that the Canon FL 58mm f1.2; 85mm f1.8; 50mm f1.8 are particularly nice to use. As are the Takumar 35mm f2; 50mm f2; the 50mm f1.4 and 85mm f1.8 auto takumar. These all produce wonderful classic images that just blow me away again and again. In general though none of the legacy lenses I own could be called duds. Its just that I enjoy some more than others. Focus peaking is tops!

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    This thread really got my attention. What I miss the most about my R gear was the world class telephotos . Especially the 180/2.8 APO which is one of the finest all around lenses I ve had . The handling is special and I loved using it for sports .

    Its also nice to be able to use both M and R glass on the same body .

    I understand the attractiveness of the zooms but is there any reason I wouldn t use the 50-135 range from the M before any R alternatives ?

    For 16-50 I am sticking with my M9 s unless I want fill flash which is pretty unlikely .

    Like finding the rare old care in the barn ...always a dream...I found a brand new 280/4 APO for a steal a year or two back . Not as attractive as the 180/2.8 apo with a NEX 7 but a view of the future possibilities.

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    I think it's one of those things one expects to need . . . . . and then find that the alternative reality is actually an improvement.

    Personally it's the first time I've found working with 'the wrong lenses' to be even faintly sensible - and I'm really enjoying it. . . . . like you, I'm hoping for a Leica solution one day, which is the reason for not going down the Leitax route with the A77 - at least for the time being.

    all the best . . . surely you can borrow a 5n from some willing person?
    A Leica solution will have me in the early adopter's queue.
    -bob

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    I'm with Bob.

    I have switched to Leica R glass exclusively for my work. I shoot with a Canon 5Dii and a Leica R8 for film work. I have no regrets.

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    A most interesting thread, including some familiar folks from LUF. Impressed by Doug's Stunning images I decided to buy a Leica-R APO 280/4. I would like to also use that lens with the 1.4x and 2x APO Extender-R. Considering Leica eventually might come out with an R-solution I don't want to really leitax any of the R-lenses. So, a Sony NEX camera with adapter should be able to tie me over. Right now 5N seem available, the 7 is another situation.

    I wonder when the NEX-7 becomes available again?
    Any flaws in my reasoning?

    Best, K-H.

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    Workshop Member glenerrolrd's Avatar
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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    [QUOTE=k-hawinkler;378239]A most interesting thread, including some familiar folks from LUF. Impressed by Doug's Stunning images I decided to buy a Leica-R APO 280/4. I would like to also use that lens with the 1.4x and 2x APO Extender-R. Considering Leica eventually might come out with an R-solution I don't want to really leitax any of the R-lenses. So, a Sony NEX camera with adapter should be able to tie me over. Right now 5N seem available, the 7 is another situation.

    I wonder when the NEX-7 becomes available again?


    K-H

    Wow I totally forgot about being able to use the extenders . I still have both
    1.4x and the 2x which has been a big reason to not convert my R telephotos.

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Roger, another friend of mine also still has high hopes of Leica some day doing a new digital body that will use his R glass, so he converted a 1.4x instead and uses that on his Sony. Not a bad idea at all, in my opinion.

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    A most interesting thread, including some familiar folks from LUF. Impressed by Doug's Stunning images I decided to buy a Leica-R APO 280/4. I would like to also use that lens with the 1.4x and 2x APO Extender-R. Considering Leica eventually might come out with an R-solution I don't want to really leitax any of the R-lenses. So, a Sony NEX camera with adapter should be able to tie me over. Right now 5N seem available, the 7 is another situation.

    I wonder when the NEX-7 becomes available again?
    Any flaws in my reasoning?

    Best, K-H.

    Yes, only one. I say this not to discourage but as a word of caution..

    While it is good to have Doug Herr as an inspiration, you also have to keep in mind that the same Doug Herr has produced many stunning images with a lowly Noflexar!

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Vivek,

    Thanks for your feedback. Doug Herr is indeed a unique nature photographer with amazing accomplishments. It's always a joy to study and learn from his stunning pictures.

    Best, K-H.

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Yes, only one. I say this not to discourage but as a word of caution..

    While it is good to have Doug Herr as an inspiration, you also have to keep in mind that the same Doug Herr has produced many stunning images with a lowly Noflexar!
    As much as I like the Novoflex's quick handling, 99.99% of the time I prefer the 280's image quality. The T-Novoflexar needs to be stopped down to f/8 for the image quality I'd like to see and without an auto aperture the usefulness at f/8 is limited. The T-Noflexar's bokeh is pretty much always smooth and gentle while the 280mm f/4 APO can be a little harsh at times. Bottom line for me: the T-Noflexar was sold, the 280 rarely leaves my sight (I take quick showers).

    The idea of converting a 1.4x extender to another mount is interesting, I'd like to hear of any experience with this.

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    The T-Noflexar's bokeh is pretty much always smooth and gentle while the 280mm f/4 APO can be a little harsh at times. Bottom line for me: the T-Noflexar was sold, the 280 rarely leaves my sight (I take quick showers).
    Sounds like my lovely new 28-90

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    The idea of converting a 1.4x extender to another mount is interesting, I'd like to hear of any experience with this.
    I'm also interested in this - I want to carry on using the lenses on the NEX7, I'm hoping for a Leica solution, and anyway, converting several ROM lenses is an expensive endeavour.

    Just this guy you know

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Quote Originally Posted by doug View Post
    The T-Novoflexar needs to be stopped down to f/8 for the image quality I'd like to see and without an auto aperture the usefulness at f/8 is limited.
    Not a surprise considering it is a triplet. But, you know what I posted. K-H understands.

    Doug, AFAIK, you are an odd man among bird photogs. Almost all the fabulous pics are taken through Canons and Nikons.

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    But, you know what I posted. K-H understands.
    Yup, I kinda went off on a tangent. Most wildlife photos are also made with much longer/bigger/heavier lenses, regardless of brand. The 280's performance inspires me to work harder to get close enough to my subjects so I can justify using it.

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Doug,

    I am glad you did. I like your tangent!

    K-H.

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    Re: Focus Peaking is expensive

    Actually, K-H, after seeing your fine image (and the gear specs that came with it), I have to ask you why in the world you would need a NEX-7 when you have the M9 plus a Visoflex combo?

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