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Thread: Pentax countdown..........

  1. #51
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Very interesting camera,and probably at the right price. Except for the size, they seem to have blended the most important DSLR features and the most important MF features into one body. If I were in the market for a D3X or 1DsIV, I would have considered this one as a very compelling alternative.

    Here are some photos of the camera: http://pentaxdslrs.blogspot.com/
    Last edited by Jorgen Udvang; 9th March 2010 at 22:30.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Yeah, now the 1dsiii and D3x are awkwardly sandwiched between the less than $2k A850 and less than $10K 645D.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    I like the dual SD cards, I could use 1 SD card for Raw's and the other for tethering JPEG's (USB) for revision, I could even use a EYE-Fi SD card for wireless tethering those JPEG'S to my assistant laptop for close up revision.

    Here's some image samples of the 645D (first button on left "impression" and then click on the feather button in the photographer profile) or 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
    Last edited by aldo; 9th March 2010 at 23:26.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Very interesting! Not very attractive, physically, but neat set of features, and I am guessing that the DSLR-like layout is going to net a lot of easy upgrades from wealthy photographers who are tired of owning the same camera as the neighbour.

    This camera is also a slap in the face of Phase and Hasselblad who have been saying for years that the high-res screen is not possible, low prices with a large sensor is not possible, and so on.

    It is clearly a play for relevance by Pentax, and I wish them all the best.
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Very interesting! Not very attractive, physically, but neat set of features, and I am guessing that the DSLR-like layout is going to net a lot of easy upgrades from wealthy photographers who are tired of owning the same camera as the neighbour.
    Trying to figure out how one actually holds it (position of left hand).

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Like you hold the S2 in your avatar, i.e. left hand under body, grasping lens. Alternatively, flip the hand around 180 degrees, i.e. grab the lens from the side.
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Like you hold the S2 in your avatar, i.e. left hand under body, grasping lens. Alternatively, flip the hand around 180 degrees, i.e. grab the lens from the side.
    It just seems very deep. I guess it will feel more like holding a Phase than the S2.

  8. #58
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    And we have some sample images taken with the camera on http://www.camera-pentax.jp/645d/top.html

    First click on 'impression' and then on the 'feathers' next to the thumbs of the two photographers. There you 'll find a number of pics.

    Warmest,

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    Last edited by Photon; 10th March 2010 at 03:14.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    This camera is also a slap in the face of Phase and Hasselblad who have been saying for years that the high-res screen is not possible, low prices with a large sensor is not possible, and so on.
    yup. When the re-re-rebirth of the Pentax was anounced stating 40MP and the price I first thought they probably bought all the stock of Kodak KAF39 sensors and made a good deal with that. But this chip is new 6 micron technology.
    Now Phase and Hassy will certainly tell us the Pentax is only 14bit and those 2 academic bits are worth twice the price ...
    In camera JPG processing for fast preview (and possibly for fast wireless transfer) is what is missing seriously in the current MFDBs. That's certainly a strong advantage of the S2 and the Pentax.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Yes, it is ugly, but so were the older Pentax 645 bodies. The surprise is that they actually handle very well and are comfortable to shoot. It is form over function. I think this is a very exciting camera. That said, after the M9 I don't have 9 grand kicking around to spend on a camera, but if I did, I would give very serious consideration to this one (though I would probably ultimately wind up with a used CFV-39).
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    One part of the camera which has me wondering... the viewfinder. The body as viewed from above shows a long thin tunnel from the opening to the prism proper, and looking at the specs, I see that the viewfinder has 98% coverage, but 0.62x magnification with the standard lens, the 55mm. The Leica S2, for comparison, has 96% coverage, but 0.86x magnification.

    Leica has chosen the 70mm lens as their normal lens, but this works out to a slightly long lens, 56mm in 135 terms, whereas the 55mm of the Pentax is more like a slightly short lens, about 45mm.

    I don't know why Pentax specifies the focal length used for the magnification states, and Leica doesn't. Can someone who understands these specs better than I make some kind of statement about the size of the Pentax viewfinder?
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    It is a game changer ...

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by PeterA View Post
    It is a game changer ...
    Seems so! Thanks, roanjoh!

    (also, Joergen for the link to the blog with pics).
    Last edited by Vivek; 10th March 2010 at 04:02.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Pretty dang cool!
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Too bad they didn't drop the price 2k further or else I would travel to Japan to pick one but... BUT....

    Is it me or is the ugliest camera ? Good lord, who was design chief on Pentax for this ? A brilliant cooperation between Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles ?

    I know its results that matter and what this camera produces is what it counts but oh boy... the thing is terrible ugly.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Sample images of the young lady seems to show a cyan cast?!!? Of course this is easily fixed with software. In any case, the images are quite detailed with very neutral colors - still would like to see full-res samples.

    Now would be interesting to see how Canon/Nikon responds to this beast as the price is very close to their top-of-the-line cameras.

    ......and depending on how successful this body is during launch, maybe the big MF guys will start to concentrate on entry-level sub-10,000 offerings.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Ugly? Seems to be the only MF camera with even close to DSLR ergonomics, I like the way the controls are slanted towards the user a lot. Personally I like the look of this far more than the Mamiya bodies I used to own or the Hasselblad (H1) which I used once.
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    I owned the Pentax 645n AF back in the film days, And I used to love the camera and lenses. Specially the lenses.
    The mirror slap was minimum and the viewfinder was beautiful and bright.
    What ultimately made me switch over to the contax 645 was lack of proper interchangeable backs and polaroid backs, but that was in the film days.
    I really hope this camera is sold world wide sooner than later.
    One last note, I at least found it to be a very very comfortable camera to handle.
    am

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Just noticed the DPReview thingy about it, $10,000, hmmm. Quite far from the hoped for $6500.
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Ben Rubinstein View Post
    Just noticed the DPReview thingy about it, $10,000, hmmm. Quite far from the hoped for $6500.
    But far cheaper than other MF's...

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by proenca View Post
    Too bad they didn't drop the price 2k further or else I would travel to Japan to pick one but... BUT....

    Is it me or is the ugliest camera ? Good lord, who was design chief on Pentax for this ? A brilliant cooperation between Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles ?

    I know its results that matter and what this camera produces is what it counts but oh boy... the thing is terrible ugly.
    at least it is black

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Not the nicest looking body I've ever seen, but you never know, it might 'fall readily to hand'. The portrait samples look like they have a lot of potential.

    Assuming it measures up to half it's on-paper potential and Pentax takes the measures to ensure it has legs outside Japan, it could be the price/performance game changer it appears to be.

    Funny - take a glance only at the on/off switch and the base ISO of 200 and you think it was a Nikon. Will be very interesting to see how CaNikon/Phase/Hass respond.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Definitiely a wake-up call for medium-format digital. While not the prettiest MFD, it brings tons of 35mm DSLR features (multi-point AF, HDR bracketing, leveling sensor, 1.1 fps, in-camera JPEG, shooting styles, etc...) at a new low price-point. This 40 mpx is going to cause a major tectonic shift in MFD pricing if Pentax markets it right.
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    http://www.pentax.jp/english/news/2010/201008.html

    I like the idea that there is no AA and the dust shaker is integrated to the UV/IR cut filter.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Will Pentax' older glass hold up? I seem to recall that some of the Pentax 6x7 offerings were not that great WRT resolving power, but I never looked into Pentax' 645 offerings.
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Aaron View Post
    Well, for me, since yesterday but i imagine for the larger world its been a bit longer than that.

    We have two H3d11 39s in the studio for the last few days and the last thing i was told by the dealer was to make sure and not put the backs on the wrong cameras as they will be "out of calibration".

    So correct me if i am wrong but you cant even put a hasselblad back on another hasselblad camera of the same model and generation without sending it to Hasselblad.

    So i would have to deduct that putting it on anything else is not going to be a realistic option.
    So the only advantage i can see of being able to take the back of a H3d or H4d i assume is to clean it.

    And to put it in the context of this thread, if it's that hard to control the alignment of a back then i am now starting to view the integrated approach of the Pentax and S2 as an advantage.
    No alignment issues when I use my 39 back on a Rollei Xact-II ... which is "another" camera as far as I know .

    -Marc

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    No alignment issues when I use my 39 back on a Rollei Xact-II ... which is "another" camera as far as I know .

    -Marc
    It's not alignment, but lens/body/back corrections embedded in the firmware by Hasselblad. As part of the "H-System" the lenses, bodies and back are tested at the factory and any minor deviations from spec are noted and encoded in the system firmware for later correction in Phocus.
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    The few samples shown do not look digital ... very nice. Some software tweak-age and you're there.

    Under $10K .... I agree with Peter ... a game changer.

    BIG deal in terms of competing with 35mm DSLRs is the inclusion of the high res LCD (only available on the H4D/60) ... and the dual card slots which can shoot mirrored to each other for back-up of event and wedding work, and 11 point AF (depending on how spread out they are).

    If the ISO 800 is decent, I'd buy this over any $8K Canon or Nikon to do the high res wedding and portrait stuff.

    Way to go Pentax.

  29. #79
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by carstenw View Post
    Leica has chosen the 70mm lens as their normal lens, but this works out to a slightly long lens, 56mm in 135 terms, whereas the 55mm of the Pentax is more like a slightly short lens, about 45mm.
    I'm guessing they made it as an equivalent to the Pentax limited 43mm?

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Yes, it appears that's exactly their plan, to siphon business away from the high end DSLRs.

    The viewfinder does appear to be somewhat smallish but that's one of the ways to cost reduce. another way is with a 50k shutter, but that sounds awfully low to me...

    If it's a success in Japan will it make it into other markets? Or alternately, why would they not pursue other markets with such a price advantage?

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    50,000 does seem low, but are there any published ratings for the lens shutters in for example hasselblad and rollei lenses? I have not seen them. Also, being rated for 50,000 does not mean the camera explodes after 50,000 shots...it may well last much longer.
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  32. #82
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    For reference, Nikon D3, 300,000 cycles; D300, 150,000. A 50k shutter is probably more in the D40 range.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Then again, the D3 is built for speed, with 9fps and lighting-fast AF. It needs a high-count shutter just to function in a reasonable manner. This is probably not the case for a MF camera, although 50000 does seem low.
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Like I said, I would be interested to hear what the counts are for the other MF manufacturers, particularly for the leaf shutter lenses, which strike me as less robust...
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Yes, it would be nice to see the figures for other MF (haven't looked any up yet) although since the Pentax is going after high end DSLR market it is still a valid comparison to look at cameras like the D3.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Shutter replacement is no big deal. For a fullframe DSLR, it's generally around ~$200-$300. Even if it's double for the Pentax, it isn't a deal breaker, IMO.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    .....I wonder how competitive / relevant Pentax was in the 645 film days - are they right up there with Hasselblad/Mamiya or below?

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    I'm pleased to see them finally come out with this camera. They've been talking about it off and on since 2004, that I recall. I hung out waiting for it for years, only recently decided that I really had no need for it and sold my Pentax 645 kit, which I'd hung onto mostly to be able to use the lenses on the new digital body.

    Pentax 6x7 and 645 cameras were/are great cameras: solid, high quality lenses, the unsung tools of lots of medium format users. Pentax never acquired much of a following in 35mm Film with the professional world, but their medium format cameras made many pros a good living, and very satisfying photographs.

    I don't know that I have any need for a 40 Mpixel medium format DSLR at this point. But it's nice to know that there will be one out there that might be accessibly priced if I do.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Shutter replacement is no big deal. For a fullframe DSLR, it's generally around ~$200-$300. Even if it's double for the Pentax, it isn't a deal breaker, IMO.
    Cost is both financial and downtime though.

    Shutter replacement for a Leaf Shutter lens is not a big deal (you have other lenses). Shutter replacement for a Body shutter on a modular and open system like Phase One where you can use any body and back combination is not a big deal (you can buy a backup body for as little as $600 or rent one as needed).

    Shutter replacement in a all-in-one system...

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    I'm kind of waiting for some little detail to come out and burst my bubble... Seems too good to be true, that is for sure.
    I'd really love to see some of the other big brands come out with competitive entry level MF products. Competition is a great thing, I just hope it doesn't kill Leica!

  41. #91
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    First of all I apologize, I do not know English, and this is by google translator.

    I honestly do not understand people who say it's an ugly camera. I think much nicer than a Mamiya or a Hassel, although it is always a personal opinion. Hassel had chemistry, and one of the best changes I've made in my life was changed by a Pentax 645AF. Those who have had a pentax 645 will know that their ergonomics and speed of use the show to a much higher level in practicality. The fact that it has the most backward grip makes it more comfortable to use. It also has small and lightweight zooms and fixed lenses and bright enough, price and size too much content. Zooms have not Hassel. Who can say that?

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Hmm, I think that is a false economy there...a new lens or body would certainly cost more than a new shutter if you are replacing it with an equivalent new model. And keep in mind we are talking about something that would likely happen once and not until 50,000+ shots. This is far more likely to be something that will be replaced or recommended to be fixed during a yearly checkup rather than a catastrophic failure.
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Agreed, Stuart. Not to mention the fact that there are also some Pentax LS 645 lenses with leaf shutters, so you could just have one of those on hand.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by roanjoh View Post
    .....I wonder how competitive / relevant Pentax was in the 645 film days - are they right up there with Hasselblad/Mamiya or below?
    http://www.luminous-landscape.com/re...s/645nii.shtml

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by Stuart Richardson View Post
    Hmm, I think that is a false economy there...a new lens or body would certainly cost more than a new shutter if you are replacing it with an equivalent new model. And keep in mind we are talking about something that would likely happen once and not until 50,000+ shots. This is far more likely to be something that will be replaced or recommended to be fixed during a yearly checkup rather than a catastrophic failure.
    My opinion in the matter is biased towards my experience/job. As head of rentals in Miami (a very transient fly-in-and-shoot city) I get the call for a rental when someone's main system goes down or they have a job where they need a backup just in case.

    As a reference point for an integrated body/sensor: a Canon 1Ds Mark III costs $400/day. A rental body for a Phase One or Hasselblad H2 body is $30-65/day and an AFD1 as a backup body is only $600 to buy.

    So the cost of the actual replacing of the shutter on any of these cameras is really the least of the concerns (often it's under warranty anyway).

    But for sure it's a very minor part of the equation. Also somewhat off topic.

    Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)
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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by roanjoh View Post
    .....I wonder how competitive / relevant Pentax was in the 645 film days - are they right up there with Hasselblad/Mamiya or below?
    I used a pair of Pentax 645s for years (pre autofocus versions)

    They were ugly little buggers but felt great in the hand, very well balanced with superbly controlled mirror return and film advance was as smooth as it got.

    Most importantly the lenses were superb, their wides were BETTER than anything Hassie or Mamiya had (but so did Contax and Bronica & Rollei- just at a higher price).
    Pentax made world class optics, that was never questioned by anyone who used them, and there wasnt really a bad lens in their 645 line (such as hassies current H 35).

    If the 645D gets out of japan, the lenses will not be an issue, they will be the strong point.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    Quote Originally Posted by douglasf13 View Post
    Agreed, Stuart. Not to mention the fact that there are also some Pentax LS 645 lenses with leaf shutters, so you could just have one of those on hand.
    Does someone have a link showing the legacy leaf shutter lenses will work on the new body with the leaf shutter? The press release only mentions the focal plane shutter and a flash sync speed of 125.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    This camera is the price of a CFV39 alone, things start to get back to place. I have always complain about the digital cameras prices, awfully high for unreliable electronics.
    The biggest joke being from Leica but to my surprise Mamiya seems to get spoiled by Hassy & others with their 20K. They used to be more reasonable in the films days.
    Now the MF digital market will have to get mature and stop their nonsenses, 5k for lens here, 14k for back there and what else ?
    Sadly this Pentax is a bit too late because many pros have already MF gear and won't change that fast.

    NiCanon are concerned only with their supposed top of the line models. I believe a wedding & studio pros would drop their FF or use their 2k models.
    On the low end of their product line, they are losing from the MFT for the reason that they are much smaller and lighter.
    Their market shrink on both sides. They have one way to go, it is to make their full frame much smaller & lighter, mirrorless, whatever, they should look at it urgently if they don't want to stay with sport photographers as sole clients left.

    I am happy Pentax made this move, they have always produced outstanding cameras & lenses fairly on par with the best, Salgado went this route precisely for the lenses after testing few other brands, he found back the Leica's IQ. In 35mm that was the case already.

    Back to prices, the lenses might be also a lot cheaper and that will make the real difference.

    This model isn't ugglier than the other brands to me, I am surpised to see it could be a criteria of choice for a MF ! You would like them to make it pink may be ! I guess they can.

    In all a very interesting move.

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    Re: Pentax countdown..........

    [QUOTE=dougpetersonci;191852]Does someone have a link showing the legacy leaf shutter lenses will work on the new body with the leaf shutter? The press release only mentions the focal plane shutter and a flash sync speed of 125.

    [font="Arial"]Doug Peterson (e-mail Me)


    I'd be shocked if they didn't. On the film 645, it looks like you can use the
    Pentax 67-->645 adapter, and even the leaf shutter LS 67 lenses will work.

    http://photo.net/medium-format-photography-forum/00SFEO

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