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Thread: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

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    Angry Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    Yes, I am now the proud owner of a brand new DF and IQ180 system. A bit apprehensive for sure, do not know if I have bitten off more than I can chew. I love the images I am getting out of it so it is probably all worth it. It does have somewhat of a learning curve and I wonder if I am missing something.

    Last night was doing some night photography with long exposures. Noticed that the longer the exposure, the longer it took for the camera to write to the CF card. Initially I thought it was my card (Sandisk Extreme Pro 32G), so today I ran some tests at home with my Lexar 1000X 32G, which is the fastest card I own.

    Regardless or ISO or f-stop, the longer the exposure is, the longer the IQ takes to write to the card. I used MLUP and self timer (tried without it too), and as soon as the exposure is done and and shutter closes, the IQ starts to write to either the buffer or the CF - the green light keeps blinking and then a while later the red light comes on with a beep and the image now appears on the LCD. During this process, I can see through the viewfinder and change settings on the DF, but cannot fire the shutter.

    My times for the writing process are agonizingly long. Here is what I found.

    exp time 30 seconds, writing time 34 seconds
    exp time 20 seconds, writing time 21 seconds
    exp time 10 seconds, writing time 10 seconds
    exp time 5 seconds, writing time 5 seconds.

    Otherwise the writing time is almost nothing, i.e. less than a second. So if the shutter speed is say 1/250, the image is completed in about a second in total and I can take another picture right away. If the shutter speed is 10 seconds, the total image time (without self timer) is over 20 seconds before I can take the next image.

    Something is not right and I do not know what it is. The files are all the same size (around 80MB) so it must be the buffer somehow.

    Please help.

    Pradeep

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    Workshop Member Wayne Fox's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    So the write time is after the dark frame exposure? looks like maybe these times are just including the matching length dark frame exposure.
    wayne
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    +1

    You are seeing dark-frame subtraction. The camera makes a second exposure for the same length of time as the first and then that frame is subtracted from the image to reduce noise.

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    Ah, that makes sense now, since the writing time is almost the same (a tad longer) as the exposure. Didn't know digital backs did that, funny, this is not mentioned in any of the reviews and the PODAS guys did not say anything either.

    Well, even though it means each shot now has to be planned even more carefully (isn't that what MF shooting is about anyway), at least there is nothing wrong with my gear

    Thanks so much. It's been an education. Coming from the DSLR world it's quite an experience.

    Pradeep

    PS. Another question, should the camera then be absolutely stationary during this 'dark frame' capture to avoid any kind of noise or can one move it, change composition etc?
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    No, you can move the camera. It is simply recording with the shutter closed. Motion is not going to add noise.

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    Thanks Will, and Wayne.

    Pradeep

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    Hi Pradeep


    Welcome to the forum - I for one look forward to seeing some of your work shared with the rest of us.

    Mal

    (IQ180, 645DF and a few lenses)

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    FWIW, my Leaf Valeo does the same thing. Max time exposure is 30" which I use in the studio to add flames to a grill shot. takes about the same 30" to generate the preview in Leaf Capture.




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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    Quote Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post
    Ah, that makes sense now, since the writing time is almost the same (a tad longer) as the exposure. Didn't know digital backs did that, funny, this is not mentioned in any of the reviews and the PODAS guys did not say anything either.

    Well, even though it means each shot now has to be planned even more carefully (isn't that what MF shooting is about anyway), at least there is nothing wrong with my gear

    Thanks so much. It's been an education. Coming from the DSLR world it's quite an experience.

    Pradeep

    PS. Another question, should the camera then be absolutely stationary during this 'dark frame' capture to avoid any kind of noise or can one move it, change composition etc?
    I'm holding my tongue here.

    Anyway you can go up to 2 minutes with a IQ 180 along with the same time frame added to the dark frame. You can move the camera with no ill effect during that time. Now time will depend on temp. As well. General rule the colder it is the less noise and more time can be had up to the 2 minutes of course. Your better off staying at a low ISO and going longer in time than bumping up the ISO and going shorter in time. Its noise you are trying to fight here and lower ISO in general is the better option and cool ambient temps.

    BTW welcome to the forum and congrats on your MF kit. Also just FYI Jack and I run GetDPI workshops that teach MF and other digital format workshops. You would have got this info on day 1.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Also just FYI Jack and I run GetDPI workshops that teach MF and other digital format workshops. You would have got this info on day 1.
    I won't hold my tongue and add a big PLUS 1 to this
    Jack
    home: www.getdpi.com

    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    ....Also just FYI Jack and I run GetDPI workshops that teach MF and other digital format workshops. You would have got this info on day 1.
    And just like Nordstrom, the professional shopper service in Dante's Forum is free!


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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    Neiman Marcus. I stepped it up a notch. LOL

    Barney's level you got no chance in hell to escape
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    Thanks Guy and Jack.

    I tried out the MFDB on a recent workshop in Svalbard and bought it locally in NY after returning home. I guess I did not take long exposures during the test phase.

    Will keep learning as I go along. Thanks for this forum and your help. Good place to continue my education.

    Pradeep

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    Your more than welcome and yes the forum here is a great place to learn. It's really what this forum is all about. You need any help just ping us and we can help.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    Pradeep
    Good to know you are using the P1 in even lower light levels than we were blessed/challenged with in the far north. Nothing like a challenge to get you ever deeper in MFDB! I hope my part in persuading you to go down the infernal pathway is not held against me!
    Regards
    Sean

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    Quote Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post
    Didn't know digital backs did that
    Dark frame subtraction is pretty standard on good digital equipment, including dSLR's. The difference is you can't disable it on a MFDB, most likely because they are more prone to noise. On a dSLR it's usually an option.

    You can see the progress of the dark frame on the IQ180 if the screen is on, at the bottom you can see the time counting down.
    wayne
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    Quote Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post
    Thanks Guy and Jack.

    I tried out the MFDB on a recent workshop in Svalbard and bought it locally in NY after returning home. I guess I did not take long exposures during the test phase.

    Will keep learning as I go along. Thanks for this forum and your help. Good place to continue my education.

    Pradeep
    I think you made a mistake with the word "education", Pradeep.

    The correct expression is "addiction". Just ask Dante.
    Bill CB

    www.billcaulfeild-browne.ca
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    Quote Originally Posted by Nutcracker View Post
    Pradeep
    Good to know you are using the P1 in even lower light levels than we were blessed/challenged with in the far north. Nothing like a challenge to get you ever deeper in MFDB! I hope my part in persuading you to go down the infernal pathway is not held against me!
    Regards
    Sean
    Hi Sean!

    You were indeed instrumental in my getting 'down here', but so far I am quite enjoying the heat

    Hope to see you again on another workshop.

    Best,

    Pradeep

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Fox View Post
    Dark frame subtraction is pretty standard on good digital equipment, including dSLR's. The difference is you can't disable it on a MFDB, most likely because they are more prone to noise. On a dSLR it's usually an option.

    You can see the progress of the dark frame on the IQ180 if the screen is on, at the bottom you can see the time counting down.
    Yes, I did see the timer counting down once and was a bit confused as to what was happening. Just that I've never encountered this with my DSLRs so it was a bit strange. Now it makes sense.

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne View Post
    I think you made a mistake with the word "education", Pradeep.

    The correct expression is "addiction". Just ask Dante.
    Bill, I used to suffer from GAS, now I have this addiction as well. Going to be a basket case soon I am sure!

    Fortunately I am in good company here

    Pradeep

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Caulfeild-Browne View Post
    I think you made a mistake with the word "education", Pradeep.

    The correct expression is "addiction". Just ask Dante.
    Same difference when you're getting your education at a meth lab... These are photo chemicals, I swear!

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    Quote Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post
    Bill, I used to suffer from GAS, now I have this addiction as well. Going to be a basket case soon I am sure!

    Fortunately I am in good company here

    Pradeep
    Your going to be one of two things and sometimes both . Either crazy like a horse or a drunk. Just don't let it turn you into a jackass from both. Very clever eh.

    Yes I'm the crazy jackass. ROTFLMAO

    Okay seriously I'm just horsing around but your on the right path and the big key here and a couple folks eluded to it so I'll bring it up again do your homework and most important don't rush into anything. Mistakes here are big and costly and I have too many emails saying I should have listened and now I'm screwed. You don't want to be that guy.

    I say that with the thought I'm heading to teach a workshop and will have a tech cam back in my slimy hands, I'm just preparing myself to be strong and not go rob a bank on the way. Bad news I checked all the possibilities in the area where I will be and they are on lock down. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    Hi,
    So do I understand correctly, that it is not possible to disable the dark-frame subtraction ? For start trails / astrophoto that's a pity, since MF lenses can be quite good, and astrophotography is a field where good lenses are very sought after ! What I do now, is to take 1-2 hours worth of 30 second shots, and assemble them later to form the longer star trails. On my Canon, I disable the dark frame, and then make it myself (by taking a 30 sec shot with the lens cap on) after the star trail is finished (or even better, one at the start and one at the end, average them, to take into account possible temperature variations).
    Thanks !

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    Senior Member kdphotography's Avatar
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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    At this time, you cannot disable the dark-frame on the Phase MFDBs.
    P45+ and IQ260 are king of the hill for long exposures.

    Petitions are being circulated now for a firmware update that will play music during the dark frame period....

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    Re: Phase One IQ180 very slow in writing to CF

    you simply need two or more backs.

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