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Thread: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

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    Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Hi, I might be checking out a CFV50c for the Summer via a sponsorship and I am wondering how it will all go down in terms of implementing it into my usual film based V system workflow.

    I have the following gear that I will be using with it:

    2 x 501CM
    1 x 500ELX

    40mm CF FLE
    50mm CF FLE
    60mm CF
    80mm CF
    100mm CF
    120mm S-Planar
    180mm CF
    350mm CF
    1.4XE converter.

    Who plays nice, who not as nice and what is the approximate FOV equivalent in terms of the roughly 33x44mm sensor?

    Also, I might be interested in trying it out with my 4x5 field camera ( Chamonix 45N2 ) so what would be the way to adapt it to the back of the camera? Lenses for that are 65-350mm, would likely favor the 65, 90 and 135mm, the latter being a Apo-Sironar S which is super sharp.

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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Your FOV is 1:3 so all you need to do is multiply your current FOV x 1.3.

    So a 40mm on the cropped sensor will be a eqvilent of a 52mm.

    Or about 12 big steps backwards to frame a similar scene at least that's what I found.

    Paul
    Paul Caldwell
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Now something else to consider though is that you'll be going from a 6x6 square image to the 44x33mm sensor which actually complicates things a little in terms of composition and lens choice in my experience (unless of course you regularly crop your sq images). This will make the straight 1.3x conversion factor a little different in reality if you are comparing "looks".

    I'd still choose a square sensor if somebody made a modern high resolution one.

    /SoapBox
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Hi Ai-Print,

    in terms of 35mm FF format you have to multiply the lens' focal length values by 0.78 to get the comparable field of view.

    The smaller 33mm x 44mm sensor (compared to film size) makes use of the central image circle and as such the lenses show less distortion and good optical performance. Phocus (Hasselblad's raw conversion software) has implemented optical correction modules for all its legacy lenses. So all optical aberrations will be corrected.

    From the bunch you listed I would say the 50, 100 and 180 are the best closely followed by the rest. I have no clue about the 1.4x converter and don't know about this version of the 40. I am using the IF version which is said to deliver higher resolution.

    Enjoy the CFV-50c, which is real fun to use.

    Regards, Udo
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Use the second tool at the link below to compare the result of 6x6 film or a dslr to the crop sensor of the CFV50c. It has the same sensor as the IQ250 for the purpose of this link.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Scroll down to see the Focal Length Visualizer.

    https://www.digitaltransitions.com/p...ra-visualizers

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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Actually using the visualizer made me realize I have the perfect tool for this, an iPhone app called "Mark II Artist's Viewfinder". I just selected the camera / back combo and entered all the lenses and can now perfectly see the effect of the reduced area.

    I hope to get the back in a week or so, will have it possibly through the Fall. If I gel with it, I'll get one to use for commercial work as I will always want to wet print my fine art black and white.

    Thanks folks!

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    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Hi,

    Foremost, focusing is critical with high resolution backs. Very critical...

    I am shooting with a P45+ which has a slightly larger sensor with less MP, so it is a bit less critical than yours.

    For me, all lenses work pretty well, the lenses I have/had are:

    40/4 FLE: Quite good, some field curvature.
    50/4 FLE: Quite good, some field curvature.
    80/2.8: Quite good, some field curvature.
    100/3.5: Very sharp at infinity, no field curvature?
    120/4 Macro: Awful lot of field curvature at infinity, OK around f/11
    150/4: Really good
    180/4: Really good

    I mostly shoot at f/11 and at that aperture most lenses are good.

    Here are aperture series with four lenses (f/4, f/8, f/16):
    http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Ar...es/CastleShoot

    And here are more samples with different lenses:
    http://echophoto.dnsalias.net/ekr/Ar...BernardSamples

    Best regards
    Erik


    Quote Originally Posted by Ai_Print View Post
    Hi, I might be checking out a CFV50c for the Summer via a sponsorship and I am wondering how it will all go down in terms of implementing it into my usual film based V system workflow.

    I have the following gear that I will be using with it:

    2 x 501CM
    1 x 500ELX

    40mm CF FLE
    50mm CF FLE
    60mm CF
    80mm CF
    100mm CF
    120mm S-Planar
    180mm CF
    350mm CF
    1.4XE converter.

    Who plays nice, who not as nice and what is the approximate FOV equivalent in terms of the roughly 33x44mm sensor?

    Also, I might be interested in trying it out with my 4x5 field camera ( Chamonix 45N2 ) so what would be the way to adapt it to the back of the camera? Lenses for that are 65-350mm, would likely favor the 65, 90 and 135mm, the latter being a Apo-Sironar S which is super sharp.

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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    As Eric already mentioned: focussing is critical! But an other thing to consider is the fact that many older Hasselblad V camera's do need adjustment of the focussing screen as many have been used years withouth any CLA or service. Film is very forgiving for focussing screen mismatch and errors but digital only knows two settings: infocus and out of focus :-)
    Best Peter.

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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...


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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    So for someone looking to build a small kit for use with a V mount Credo 60, is the 50mm FLE any better or worse (for less money) than the 40mm FLE? Anyone shooting a mimilar combination?

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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Can't speak for the 50, but the 40 is outstanding
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Maybe this is helpful for you. I took some sample images with my Hasselblad lenses in combination with the Pentax 645Z last weekend. The results should be real close to the CFV50c.
    Pascal Stingl » Klassische und morderne Photografie » Pentax 645Z ? Lens Review Data

    Regards
    Pascal
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    John... Any difference in 40mm CFE vs FLE? Thanks

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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Landscapelover View Post
    John... Any difference in 40mm CFE vs FLE? Thanks
    Both lenses have floating lens elements. While those are moved automatically in the 40IF when the focus ring is turned, there is an additional ring on the 40FLE to choose the proper focusing distance/range. The latter has a bit less distortion compared to the IF version but less resolving power as well. The IF is resolving around 200lp/mm.

    There is a website called hasselbladhistorical where you can find and download data sheets to all Hasselblad/Zeiss lenses.

    Furthermore you have to shell out a lot more money for the IF version.

    Regards, Udo

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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Thanks Udo.

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    Senior Member ondebanks's Avatar
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Hi Erik,

    Thanks for the lens feedback.

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    40/4 FLE: Quite good, some field curvature.
    50/4 FLE: Quite good, some field curvature.
    - not too surprising for wideangles.

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    80/2.8: Quite good, some field curvature.
    As the Planar design is so named for its flat field, I believe what you are seeing here is mainly coma rather than field curvature. This is typical in double-Gauss "standard lenses" for all formats.

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    100/3.5: Very sharp at infinity, no field curvature?
    It has that reputation alright. Popular lens with astrophotographers in the film era.

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    120/4 Macro: Awful lot of field curvature at infinity, OK around f/11
    This is the only observation that disturbed me. Just about every MF manufacturer had a 120/4 macro, and the consensus is that they are all about equally good. But clearly they are not! My Mamiya 120/4 A macro is flat as a pancake at infinity, and super-sharp right across the field, wide open. The only thing "wrong" with its distance performance is higher vignetting than you'd get from a non-macro lens like the 110/2.8 N. Vignetting is easily corrected of course. So it seems like the Mamiya 120/4 combines the best properties of two Hasselblad V lenses - the 105/3.5 for distance and the 120/4 for macro.

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    150/4: Really good
    180/4: Really good
    No surprises there. But I wonder if chromatic aberration starts to become a problem. Zeiss did not seem to use special low-dispersion glass in the V series, or at least didn't draw attention to it with labels such as ED, ULD, or APO.

    Ray

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    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Hi,

    Regarding crhomatic aberration there is some lateral chroma on most of the lenses, but this is well corrected in Lightroom. I tried the 40/4 shifted and in that case I found lateral chroma problematic as Lightroom correction has failed.

    With the Sonnars I have seen some axial chroma, even stopped down.

    Getting back to the Planar 120, I am pretty sure that field curvature is at play, here are the MTF-curves at infinity:






    Looking into that lens got me into MF and later MFD. I liked the lenses and wanted to use the image circle.

    Anyway, I am mostly quite happy with lenses.

    Best regards
    Erik

    Quote Originally Posted by ondebanks View Post
    Hi Erik,

    Thanks for the lens feedback.



    - not too surprising for wideangles.



    As the Planar design is so named for its flat field, I believe what you are seeing here is mainly coma rather than field curvature. This is typical in double-Gauss "standard lenses" for all formats.


    It has that reputation alright. Popular lens with astrophotographers in the film era.



    This is the only observation that disturbed me. Just about every MF manufacturer had a 120/4 macro, and the consensus is that they are all about equally good. But clearly they are not! My Mamiya 120/4 A macro is flat as a pancake at infinity, and super-sharp right across the field, wide open. The only thing "wrong" with its distance performance is higher vignetting than you'd get from a non-macro lens like the 110/2.8 N. Vignetting is easily corrected of course. So it seems like the Mamiya 120/4 combines the best properties of two Hasselblad V lenses - the 105/3.5 for distance and the 120/4 for macro.



    No surprises there. But I wonder if chromatic aberration starts to become a problem. Zeiss did not seem to use special low-dispersion glass in the V series, or at least didn't draw attention to it with labels such as ED, ULD, or APO.

    Ray

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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Pascal, what a vast test! Did you use CA-reduction on these?

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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    How is it using this back in vertical?

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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    it is tough composing in vertical without a viewing prism

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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ai_Print View Post
    How is it using this back in vertical?
    I have no problems shooting the 501cm + CFV50c in vertical format with a PM90 viewfinder. With the PM45 the perspective is awkward, thus the reason for my purchase of the P90 which stays on the camera for all shots (landscape and portrait orientations). Anybody want to buy a nicely used PM45?

    Kind regards,
    Darr
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Darn...

    Too bad it does not rotate, this could be awkward cocking the shutter when doing ad shoots.

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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by ErikKaffehr View Post
    Getting back to the Planar 120, I am pretty sure that field curvature is at play, here are the MTF-curves at infinity:





    Interesting! That big dip in the middle of the infinity plots definitely looks like field curvature alright.

    Here are the same plots for the Mamiya 12/4 macro N:





    In their primary macro regime, the Mamiya [at 1:1] is fairly similar to the Hasselblad [at a less closeup 1:1.5].
    But there is a world of difference at infinity!

    I scanned these charts from a 1997 MAC brochure, which says of the 120/4 macro: "It is a state-of-the-art, modified Gauss design with an adjustable floating group for variable flat filed correction, using Mamiya's own formulation of high density/low and ultra-low dispersion glass".

    Ray

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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Slixtiesix View Post
    Pascal, what a vast test! Did you use CA-reduction on these?
    No correction for CA applied while development. You may download the RAW file to check by yourself.
    Regards
    Pascal
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Well I have a good clean PM90 coming in a couple days and will have the back by the end of the week. This should be fun!

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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Question on the aspect of setting the exposure time on the back it self. It would appear to be a default of 1/8th of a second, so:

    1. Do I have to change that value every time I change the shutter speed?

    2. If not the above, is there any harm in setting it at somewhere between 1-30 seconds so I can use those speeds at will?

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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ai_Print View Post
    Question on the aspect of setting the exposure time on the back it self. It would appear to be a default of 1/8th of a second, so:

    1. Do I have to change that value every time I change the shutter speed?

    2. If not the above, is there any harm in setting it at somewhere between 1-30 seconds so I can use those speeds at will?
    1. You have to change the setting only if your exposure time is going to be longer/slower than the default time (1/8th).
    2. The sensor will be active and ready to capture photons for the period of time you have set, even if the lens shutter is already closed. So it is likely that the noise floor/level will be raised.

    Regards, Udo
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Well darn...

    I just got the Hassy PM90 prism and it is out of focus something serious. I got it from KEH and it looks virtually brand new, has the standard neutral diopter ( OD/90 ). I tried it on three bodies, my wife looked through it ( I now use a -1.5 ) and it is completely back focused meaning the point is behind the surface of the prism that faces the screen. I took the diopter off and in no way did that help, part of the optical path although all I saw was the back of the prism, no optics.

    Besides the obvious of returning it hassle free to KEH, any suggestions on trouble shooting this? In looking at the photos, does this look right or is it missing something?

    Attachment 93992Attachment 93993Attachment 93994
    Last edited by Ai_Print; 6th August 2015 at 15:56.

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    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Ray,

    Thanks for filling in.

    I have seen some info from Zeiss, in part from Hubert Nasse's articles and indirectly trough "Diglloyd's" writing that floating elements are needed to allow planar field at different focusing distances. As you noted the Mamya macro has floating elements.

    Now, older macro lenses often were of traditional double Gauss design. Interestingly, Zeiss developed a new Macro for the Contax 645, called the APO Planar 120/4 which is quite different from the Hasselblad lens. The Apo Planar has an extra group of two elements, which I presume is a field flattener and it has variable air space.

    That lens is very good at infinity and also at 1:1.

    Just to mention, right now I am waiting for a Sony 90/2.8 macro that will be shipped with the Sony A7rII I am waiting for, that lens has 15 elements in 11 groups and variable air space. The corresponding Nikon and Canon macros are of similar complexity.

    So, very obviously, modern designs are much more complex than older ones.

    Best regards
    Erik



    Quote Originally Posted by ondebanks View Post
    Interesting! That big dip in the middle of the infinity plots definitely looks like field curvature alright.

    Here are the same plots for the Mamiya 12/4 macro N:





    In their primary macro regime, the Mamiya [at 1:1] is fairly similar to the Hasselblad [at a less closeup 1:1.5].
    But there is a world of difference at infinity!

    I scanned these charts from a 1997 MAC brochure, which says of the 120/4 macro: "It is a state-of-the-art, modified Gauss design with an adjustable floating group for variable flat filed correction, using Mamiya's own formulation of high density/low and ultra-low dispersion glass".

    Ray

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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ai_Print View Post
    Well darn...

    I just got the Hassy PM90 prism and it is out of focus something serious. I got it from KEH and it looks virtually brand new, has the standard neutral diopter ( OD/90 ). I tried it on three bodies, my wife looked through it ( I now use a -1.5 ) and it is completely back focused meaning the point is behind the surface of the prism that faces the screen. I took the diopter off and in no way did that help, part of the optical path although all I saw was the back of the prism, no optics.

    Besides the obvious of returning it hassle free to KEH, any suggestions on trouble shooting this? In looking at the photos, does this look right or is it missing something?
    It looks identical to my PM90, diopter and all. The only thing I would suggest, but you probably already checked it out, is to make sure the focusing screen is installed correctly in your camera body. I have installed the focusing screen that came with the CFV-50c back in my 501CM and it works well. KEH is real good about returns. I have been dealing with them since you could walk-in off 14th Street in Atlanta and go through their bins. When they moved to Smyrna in the 90s, they stopped being a retail store and became strictly mail order, but their return policy has always been the best in the business IMO.

    What lens were you testing the PM90 with?

    Kind regards,
    Darr
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    I tried it with a 50 and and a 80mm. I also tried it again with the dedicated CFV50 screen and it is out the same amount. I hear you on their return policy but unfortunately I only have the back for a week so that won't help me much, I have to use one of my NC-2 45 degree prisms for verts, not ideal but kind of works I guess.

    To be honest I think someone pulled a fast one on KEH and swapped the glass out of a heavily corrected diopter and put it in the mint zero correction eyepiece, otherwise this makes no sense at all, it seriously looks unused. Back it goes for sure.

    On initial testing the back seems to work well with most of my lenses, even the 80 has a nice look wide open, the 350 plus the 1.4 converter work surprisingly well wide open. One issue I have had though is that unlike my previous 500 CM bodies, the 501 CM's have a pretty stiff shutter actuation when using a cable release, so it induces more camera shake than I like and now I see that confirmed when using slow speeds on longer glass even using the mirror pre-release. This is nothing on the back, I just need to send each body in one at a time to have David Odess adjust one or both of them to take far less release pressure.

    The back itself seems good, is fun and pretty straight forward to use although live view is a bit menu buried. Wish it had came with more than one battery though, maybe that is Hasselblad's way of keeping the click count down, lol! I am pretty sure the 12V charger from my Leica M240 will work since it uses the same plug, that means I can solar charge it on my camper while in the field. It only weighs 100 grams more than a loaded A-12 back which is nice.

    The main thing the back and the kit has to do is in an overall sense at least equal my Nikon D810 with my better glass and it seems to. The goal here is for me to use the system I prefer to use for fine art in using much preferred black and white film and yet still be able to quickly put on a digital back and get an ad shoot done. The Nikon system just does not allow for that very easily since the negatives are no where near the size I need for quality darkroom prints. So far it looks like the CFV50c may solve that....

    Now for the big shoots, a stringed quartet for an ad and a huge 14,000 x 40,000 pixel mural for a private commission.....
    Last edited by Ai_Print; 8th August 2015 at 06:27.

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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    my P90 has the two blue lines on it (it has the cutaway for the light meter dissplay for the 200 series) it fits and focuses well on my 203FCC and my 500C/M

    at one time, i bought a spare waist level finder that fit but was way out of focus on my 203TCC at the time; maybe they had an older version camera with a different focal distance to the GG?

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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Ai_Print View Post
    I tried it with a 50 and and a 80mm. I also tried it again with the dedicated CFV50 screen and it is out the same amount. I hear you on their return policy but unfortunately I only have the back for a week so that won't help me much, I have to use one of my NC-2 45 degree prisms for verts, not ideal but kind of works I guess.

    To be honest I think someone pulled a fast one on KEH and swapped the glass out of a heavily corrected diopter and put it in the mint zero correction eyepiece, otherwise this makes no sense at all, it seriously looks unused. Back it goes for sure.

    On initial testing the back seems to work well with most of my lenses, even the 80 has a nice look wide open, the 350 plus the 1.4 converter work surprisingly well wide open. One issue I have had though is that unlike my previous 500 CM bodies, the 501 CM's have a pretty stiff shutter actuation when using a cable release, so it induces more camera shake than I like and now I see that confirmed when using slow speeds on longer glass even using the mirror pre-release. This is nothing on the back, I just need to send each body in one at a time to have David Odess adjust one or both of them to take far less release pressure.

    The back itself seems good, is fun and pretty straight forward to use although live view is a bit menu buried. Wish it had came with more than one battery though, maybe that is Hasselblad's way of keeping the click count down, lol! I am pretty sure the 12V charger from my Leica M240 will work since it uses the same plug, that means I can solar charge it on my camper while in the field. It only weighs 100 grams more than a loaded A-12 back which is nice.

    The main thing the back and the kit has to do is in an overall sense at least equal my Nikon D810 with my better glass and it seems to. The goal here is for me to use the system I prefer to use for fine art in using much preferred black and white film and yet still be able to quickly put on a digital back and get an ad shoot done. The Nikon system just does not allow for that very easily since the negatives are no where near the size I need for quality darkroom prints. So far it looks like the CFV50c may solve that....

    Now for the big shoots, a stringed quartet for an ad and a huge 14,000 x 40,000 pixel mural for a private commission.....
    I have never used my 501CM outside of the studio, so I am shooting at 1/125 and higher with cable the majority of the time. That is an interesting point you make about camera shake from using the cable. I have made note of it and will be testing my body at longer shutter speeds.

    The "P" button (CFV-50c) on the left is where you set it to Live View (or another task) for quick viewing. Once set, you never have to dig into the menu for it.

    The batteries are SONY NP-F550 and easily found on eBay. I paid $37.99 for two OEM in 2014. There are many 'other than OEM' batteries available as well.

    I use the back part time with the 501CM for studio macro and portrait work, and also with my tech camera and Schneider lenses. I also have a P45 that I need to sell!

    Kind regards,
    Darr
    "Creativity takes courage." ~ Henri Matisse
    Darlene Almeda, photoscapes.com

  35. #35
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    my P90 has the two blue lines on it (it has the cutaway for the light meter dissplay for the 200 series) it fits and focuses well on my 203FCC and my 500C/M

    at one time, i bought a spare waist level finder that fit but was way out of focus on my 203TCC at the time; maybe they had an older version camera with a different focal distance to the GG?

    Mine is the double blue line one as well.

  36. #36
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    I have never used my 501CM outside of the studio, so I am shooting at 1/125 and higher with cable the majority of the time. That is an interesting point you make about camera shake from using the cable. I have made note of it and will be testing my body at longer shutter speeds.

    The "P" button (CFV-50c) on the left is where you set it to Live View (or another task) for quick viewing. Once set, you never have to dig into the menu for it.

    The batteries are SONY NP-F550 and easily found on eBay. I paid $37.99 for two OEM in 2014. There are many 'other than OEM' batteries available as well.

    I use the back part time with the 501CM for studio macro and portrait work, and also with my tech camera and Schneider lenses. I also have a P45 that I need to sell!

    Kind regards,
    Darr
    The batteries do seem inexpensive, I will get a number of them for sure if I commit to buying the back, this one is just a loaner from Hasselblad Bron. As for the P button, for sure but then that changes the dynamic of deleting unwanted or out take frames in the field. I really like the P button for the latter, don't expect to use live view much when in prime time.

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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Following your thread with great interest, AiPrint. I'm also considering the CFV-50c and my use cases are similar to yours... ability to quickly switch between black and white (and the occasional roll of color) film and a digital back providing very high quality IQ. All on the V-system, which I love.

    I'm wondering how the crop factor of the CFV impacts viewfinder ergonomics and lens choice. And I'd love to see any CFV images you might like to share.
    Jeff

    www.jeffhughesphoto.com
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    here's one: cfv50, 60mm, 203fcc
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Following your thread with great interest, AiPrint. I'm also considering the CFV-50c and my use cases are similar to yours... ability to quickly switch between black and white (and the occasional roll of color) film and a digital back providing very high quality IQ. All on the V-system, which I love.

    I'm wondering how the crop factor of the CFV impacts viewfinder ergonomics and lens choice. And I'd love to see any CFV images you might like to share.
    I'm actually fine with the crop factor because I am not expecting this to be a 1:1 full frame Hasselblad solution, we are and have been just too far away from that. I am also happy to report that the crop frame lines don't hinder me at all when using the entire screen for a regular film based image & find that as far as lens selection goes, it is a one step wider kind of thing in that if I would normally use a 60 & 100 as my favorite two lens kit, it is now a 50 and an 80 to get reasonably close to what I feel is the same.

    One thing I have noticed in short order is that in using lenses longer than 120mm, some form of monopod or tripod is nice to have if not mandatory even at 1/500th, particularly over 180mm. So this will have an effect on how I view this back's viability in my Winter markets of skiing, alpine work.

    Yesterday was my first real day using the back on advertising jobs, the quintet and flower / gondola shot is with the 80 and the scenic with the 50 FLE, black glove in camera burning and dodging on top for the clouds. The quintet shot allowed me to really push the envelope on the 14 stop dynamic range and I feel it did really well, the tones did what I would want them to. For the gondola shot and the scenic I was using my NC-2 45 degree prism and it was certainly a bit more trial and error to keep it level on the vertical shots. It is also kind of a juggling act of tenacity to keep updating the lower end shutter speed on the back as the light falls below one second as with the scenic which was about 3 seconds, I got used to it though.

    So I have not done a comparison to my D810 with really good glass but I think at this point it will come out equal or better in terms of final output and that is really all I need it do to, make it to where I do not have to take a Nikon body out on shoots that I am mostly shooting black and white film in my Blads, and not take a Blad or Mamiya 6 on shoots that I am mostly using the Nikons. I loved how quick I swapped from the CFV50c to an A-12 loaded with Acros on the scenic shot, bam, done!

    I'll just keep working it and see how I feel at the end of my time with it....


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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Very nice pictures, jlm and AiPrint. Looking at the RAW files, how do they compare in terms of detail and tonality with high-end 35mm digital?

    Darr (or anyone else), do you have any portraits you can share?

    Interesting that you burned in the clouds on your scenic, in-camera, Ai. Do you recall what your shutter speed was that allowed you to do that?

    Thanks again. Lots of very helpful information in this thread...

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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Very nice pictures, jlm and AiPrint. Looking at the RAW files, how do they compare in terms of detail and tonality with high-end 35mm digital?

    Darr (or anyone else), do you have any portraits you can share?

    Interesting that you burned in the clouds on your scenic, in-camera, Ai. Do you recall what your shutter speed was that allowed you to do that?

    Thanks again. Lots of very helpful information in this thread...

    With a negative in an enlarger, you could burn in the clouds. But with a digital back on-camera, you would want to dodge. Only way to do that is to use a neutral density filter.
    There is no such thing as black glove in camera burning and dodging. That's why we use multiple exposure bracketing for HDR.


    --Steve.

  42. #42
    Senior Member ErikKaffehr's Avatar
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Hi,

    The trick is to expose for the highlights. So you expose that there is no clipping on the highlights, as much as possible at the base (normally lowest) ISO. The camera histogram should give good info on that, even if it is somewhat tweaked, as it is normally based on a tweaked image (curves and WB applied).

    After that you apply a graduated filter to the sky. Lightroom 6 that I use have excellent tools for that. Taken care of the sky you would adjust the whole image to taste.

    Shooting for the sky gives less exposure for the darker parts, so you can use a high quality split ND filter during exposure that darkens the image before capture. On the other hand, the CFV 50c should give you tons of shadow detail anyway.

    HDR techniques help combine two or more shots in the same image. The HDR tool in LR is really good.

    Anyway, the clue is a well exposed image, without blowing out the sky and doing good processing on it. Taming a high dynamic range is never easy, especially if you want a credible look.

    I very often use RawDigger to analyse my raw images. That tool gives insights into how the raw is exposed without the trickery always present in raw converters.

    Best regards
    Erik




    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Interesting that you burned in the clouds on your scenic, in-camera, Ai. Do you recall what your shutter speed was that allowed you to do that?

    Thanks again. Lots of very helpful information in this thread...

  43. #43
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by steve_cor View Post
    With a negative in an enlarger, you could burn in the clouds. But with a digital back on-camera, you would want to dodge. Only way to do that is to use a neutral density filter.
    There is no such thing as black glove in camera burning and dodging. That's why we use multiple exposure bracketing for HDR.
    This is incorrect.

    I don't use HDR and I did use my hand wearing a black ski glove liner to hold back 2/3rds of the overall exposure ( 4 seconds ) in the very top of the frame. I do this a lot and it takes some practice but works fantastic if the exposures are over 2 seconds long, 15-30 seconds is preferable. I use this trick all the time for medium and large format film as well.

    The problem with grads is that they are not always shaped optimally where as I can morph my fingers into a near perfect shape to work with. There are also never any color shifts in using this method and no optical degradation.

    I take the credit for hand building my images in camera instead of giving credit to some software, my clients like that too.
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Ai_Print,
    You have awesome technique, which you have proven. I especially like your mountain scene. I would have thought that fingers in front of the lens would come out as blurry fingers in the picture. Thanks for that info.

    During the night, I dreamed that Sony made a new dodging feature. After you take a shot, you select dodging in the menu. Then you circle the area to be dodged on the touch screen. Then on the next shot, the sensor electronically reduces exposure to that area. Imagine that, the new Sony black glove in-camera dodging feature.


    --Steve.
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Ai_Print, any update on how you're getting along with the CFV-50c?

    Did you get your PM90 situation sorted? Have you been able to get out and make any more images? Any thoughts on the back?

  46. #46
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jager View Post
    Ai_Print, any update on how you're getting along with the CFV-50c?

    Did you get your PM90 situation sorted? Have you been able to get out and make any more images? Any thoughts on the back?
    A bit late on this I know but yeah, I ordered one under the promotion, should have it in a couple of weeks. Also got a dedicated 128GB card plus two spare batteries for now, might need a 4th for heavy shoot days.

    I have to work out issues with my 100mm 3.5 that has since gone to Hasselblad to get checked out and seems to be ok according to them which is odd because my 80 Planar is sharper, the 100 showed what looked to be collimation issues. My favorite 2 lens combo is the 60 & 100CF in film, 3 lens is 50, 80 and 180 which I suppose I will start with until the 100 gets figured out, it is not doing so hot on film either, really odd.

    I also could not get the PM90 dialed in so I returned it and have a PME90 on order plus a diopter for any addition correction I might need.

    I do have a question though, what screen protector can I get for this back?

  47. #47
    Senior Member JohnBrew's Avatar
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    I felt that battery life with the CFV-50c was very good, especially compared to the P45+ I tried. I wouldn't think you would need more than two.
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    Re: Trying out CFV50c, lens questions...

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrew View Post
    I felt that battery life with the CFV-50c was very good, especially compared to the P45+ I tried. I wouldn't think you would need more than two.
    I found it to be quite good too but it all depends on the shooting situation.

    For example, long cold days on the ski hill will tax any battery. The other way I can see the battery going faster is when I leave my bulky PME90 prism home in favor of the much lighter & smaller waist level for long hikes and then have to use live view to fine tune vertical compositions.

    It's better to have more than not enough....

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