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Thread: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

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    Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    Just did a brief comparison. RAW files available here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/p1rbfp87i...sOyDRmS7a?dl=0

    Body 645Z Alpa 12 STC
    Wide angle 28-45mm f4.5 40mm HR
    Standard prime 75mm f2.8 75mm f5.6
    Total weight 3235g 2525g
    Size Huge Compact
    Tilt & Shift No Yes
    L-bracket Yes Yes
    Live View Yes Yes
    Focus Peaking Yes No
    Timelapse Yes No
    Weather Sealed Yes No
    Dual memory slot Yes No
    Capture One Not supported Supported
    RAW bits 14-bit 16-bit
    Touch Screen No Yes
    Tilt Screen Yes No
    Image Stabilization Yes No
    Autofocus Yes No
    Video Yes No
    Body made in Philippines Switzerland
    Lens made in Vietnam Germany
    Price Kidney Kidney Kidney Kidney Kidney

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    That is quite a clear difference in resolution. And you can clearly see where the money has gone.
    You do need to have a need for it though. I find the crispness of shots out of a tech cam can pose problems with certain subjects when you print smaller sizes. Prints tend to become really in your face.

    With respect to color I would have to give the edge to the Pentax. Although higher resolution brings more colors, there are a lot of strange shadow colors under the mixed lighting. But that might be down to post processing.

    Not quite sure what advantage a manufacturer in Europe would give me over one in Asia though.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    Wow, it's really clear which one is sharper here!

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    I don't completely get the point of this. First of all you can knock off a couple of kidneys, maybe more, if you put the Rody copal 0 on an Actus. Also the Pentax is truly handicapped with the zoom lens. The Rody 40mm is widely known as one of the best wides available. If a really nice prime lens was coupled to the Pentax the differences would/could be less apparent. So this, to me, is really a story about lenses.

    Victor
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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    As Mike Johnston said, "[S]ome people enjoy testing to such a great extent that it's all they ever do." http://theonlinephotographer.typepad...d-testing.html

    Some posters here seem to get a great deal of pleasure from measuring one thing against another and then telling the world what they've done. No harm in it, I guess, but sometimes it gets old.

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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    I must say that really it's like bringing a knife to a gunfight when you compare the Pentax lens to the Rodie 40HR and even more so if it had been the 32HR.

    thing is though that it's also about what is the best tool for the job. Personally I think that shooting with a technical camera is the most enjoyable way of capturing images but it's not the most universal tool compared to the Pentax.

    It's all about horses for courses as the saying goes.

    Personally, I'm always keen to see comparisons when raw files are shared. Normally the tiny jpg files people post show nothing. In this case it's pretty clear. Regarding the colour differences, well I'm sure that you could set up a custom ICC in Capture One to get the look that you are after.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    Not sure why you'd compare these two outside of the simple reason that you had both kits lying around.

    The 28/45 is supposed to be a great lens but it not fair to compare it to a 40HR. It is also not supposed to be at its best at the long end.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    Its interesting to see for the sake of curiosity and might be useful for some fence sitters (wherever they might be!). In terms of functionality, its more apples to oranges.
    Last edited by Geoff; 22nd November 2015 at 04:37.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    First, the lenses do make a huge difference. Coming from a tech cam shooter that had the 40HR on my Cambo, there was not much that could compete with it.

    Second. It is not only a comparison of the Pentax against the Alpa but what back is the Alpa using.

    Many many reviewers on the net consider the sensor in the Pentax to be one of the finest on the market (especially for the price point as you are roughly 1/3 the price of the Hasselblad and 1/5 the price of the Phase kit), but again, that is a matter of personal taste.

    If you prefer to shoot with a dslr body, then the Pentax is an extremely good choice as your latitude is great considering that it is equipped with the Sony CMOS sensor (the same as in the IQ 250, 350) The one drawback is that Pentax do not have a sizable stable of lenses that can keep up with that sensor, but you can use the Hassy V lenses with an adapter.

    On the other hand, if you like the versatility of being able to shoot with a DSLR or a tech cam, then the Pentax won't work, unless they come up with a way to mount it to an Actus (which to me is not quite the same thing).

    Lastly, it is difficult to compare jpegs from two different processing software suites as each one uses its own algorithms to do the work.
    Bryan

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    I'm inclined to think that the back/sensor is irrelevant in this comparison due to the vast gap in lens performance.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    As Oscar Wilde said, "my tastes are simple, I only like the best"
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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    I think this test is interesting in that in a previous thread here the 645Z with the 28-45mm zoom was compared to an 80mpx Phase back with the new, blue ring Schneider 35mm and 55mm LS. Differences in that test were pretty marginal to most peoples eyes. While this might count more as a lens test to some, what it does prove is that the 35mm and 55mm Schneider SLR lenses–at least the copies tested in the other thread–aren't especially good when compared to the Rodenstock HR offerings shown here. Differences in colour etc seem negligible to me, unless you must rely on straight out the box colour more often than not.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    In the other thread the raw files were available for download which I did. The results were much closer 35LS and the Pentax zoom.
    It would be nice to see a comparison of the 35LS and the 32HR. no movements just center shots.

    As for Pentax, they are getting quite aggressive.

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...rmat_dslr.html

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    I think the comparison is quite just (though not fair), because people ask why you would spend so much more money on a P1 back and a tech cam while the 645z has the same sensor. This shows why.
    As far as the lens comparison, both are the obvious choice with both systems. If you need a wide angle on the Pentax there isn't much better than the 28-45.
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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    Quote Originally Posted by tjv View Post
    I think this test is interesting in that in a previous thread here the 645Z with the 28-45mm zoom was compared to an 80mpx Phase back with the new, blue ring Schneider 35mm and 55mm LS. Differences in that test were pretty marginal to most peoples eyes. While this might count more as a lens test to some, what it does prove is that the 35mm and 55mm Schneider SLR lenses–at least the copies tested in the other thread–aren't especially good when compared to the Rodenstock HR offerings shown here. Differences in colour etc seem negligible to me, unless you must rely on straight out the box colour more often than not.
    The test of the 35LS was severely hampered by being using at f/14; well beyond diffraction limit of the 80mp digital back.

    It was like comparing a McLaren to a Mustang while having both tow a boat behind them.
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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    Quote Originally Posted by JeRuFo View Post
    I think the comparison is quite just (though not fair), because people ask why you would spend so much more money on a P1 back and a tech cam while the 645z has the same sensor. This shows why.
    As far as the lens comparison, both are the obvious choice with both systems. If you need a wide angle on the Pentax there isn't much better than the 28-45.
    Two different tools for two different methods of photography. One excels for pure IQ for architectural and landscape work and the other is able to do that, plus studio, fashion and "street" work albeit with difference in overall IQ.

    It depends on what you are using said tool for, and what your budget allows for. In the end, no matter how much you spend on your kit, if you don't have the passion or ability then it is of little use either way.
    Bryan

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    ....
    As for Pentax, they are getting quite aggressive.

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produc...rmat_dslr.html

    3K overall savings. Note the value add warranty.

    Paul C
    Nice kit, all in a ready to go hard side case. Pentax took notice of Phase's packaging

    Smart offering by Pentax, making it 'easy' putting a good base kit all together. This year has been way too expensive already---this would be a kick-*** camera to convert to full spectrum/IR. I certainly can't justify a wide spectrum or Achromatic MFDB.

    ken

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Stephens View Post
    Two different tools for two different methods of photography. One excels for pure IQ for architectural and landscape work and the other is able to do that, plus studio, fashion and "street" work albeit with difference in overall IQ.

    It depends on what you are using said tool for, and what your budget allows for. In the end, no matter how much you spend on your kit, if you don't have the passion or ability then it is of little use either way.
    Agree.

    It is impossible to do an honest and fair comparison of two camera systems that are so different fundamentally.

    For general purpose shooting and versatility you cannot beat a small format 'lens on a box' camera. Most of us would be willing to compromise on IQ in such cases. Absolute best quality comes at a cost - not just in terms of money.

    So in a hypothetical world, if money were no object we would still exert a certain choice, based on form factor, IQ, convenience and not least of all, shooting needs.
    Too much to list, let's just say I have a bad case of GAS.........

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    Maybe I missed it but what back was on the Alpa?

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    I believe it was a IQ250, but he may have a 350 now. Same chip 50MP CMOS as the Pentax.

    Paul C

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    I have to say, there appears to be something a bit off with the Pentax 28-45mm performance here. I own this kit and have never seen it looking anywhere near as mushy as some of these at the edges. Mine is razor sharp right to the edges and corners. Sure, I'd expect a Rodenstock prime to beat it, but I'm not exaggerating when I say its the best zoom I have ever used by quite a margin. There can be some curvature at the long end, but I have thousands of pin sharp frames where the edges are all but indistinguishable from the centre. I literally haven't a single frame that looks as bad as some of those on display here. What the cause is I don't know, but I'd urge people considering the Pentax & 28-45mm not to take this comparison as indicative of performance. Mine does a fine impression of a Zeiss ZM or Leica prime on my Leica M, only at 51MP. I was simply staggered when I ran the first tests to ensure it was well-centred.

    For ultimate performance, great primes and lots of MP is always going to win, but there are many reasons to prefer one system over the other.
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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    I have to say, there appears to be something a bit off with the Pentax 28-45mm performance here. I own this kit and have never seen it looking anywhere near as mushy as some of these at the edges. Mine is razor sharp right to the edges and corners. Sure, I'd expect a Rodenstock prime to beat it, but I'm not exaggerating when I say its the best zoom I have ever used by quite a margin. There can be some curvature at the long end, but I have thousands of pin sharp frames where the edges are all but indistinguishable from the centre. I literally haven't a single frame that looks as bad as some of those on display here. What the cause is I don't know, but I'd urge people considering the Pentax & 28-45mm not to take this comparison as indicative of performance. Mine does a fine impression of a Zeiss ZM or Leica prime on my Leica M, only at 51MP. I was simply staggered when I ran the first tests to ensure it was well-centred.

    For ultimate performance, great primes and lots of MP is always going to win, but there are many reasons to prefer one system over the other.
    I agree with you that the 28-45 sample I tested may be de-centered a bit, as I have also seen others posting razor sharp corners of that lens. However, if you look into the official website of Pentax, you would find similar test results of soft corners. I can only conclude that there could be some variance between samples, or possibly the field curvature is more severe when you focus close.

    Link to the sample image at Pentax's official website

    100% crop of bottom right corner:

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    Quote Originally Posted by turtle View Post
    For ultimate performance, great primes and lots of MP is always going to win, but there are many reasons to prefer one system over the other.
    One over the other? Sorry, I just don't understand ... What is this 'over' or 'or' word?? There is no 'or' on this forum, just 'and'

    Ken/Don, how am I doing?

    Btw, that Pentax GAS in a box looks excellent at B&H. I could see them selling those easily.
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    Workshop Member Bryan Stephens's Avatar
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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    Btw, that Pentax GAS in a box looks excellent at B&H. I could see them selling those easily.
    I know.. I am seriously eyeing that kit.... Ugh. Dante.... is that you?
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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Bryan Stephens View Post
    I know.. I am seriously eyeing that kit.... Ugh. Dante.... is that you?
    Bryan, you know that you want, no, need it!

    If if I weren't so embedded into Phase One gear I'd seriously consider the Pentax as the grown up DSLR. Just been shooting my DF+ again tonight and I seriously HATE the f'ing thing when it locks up. Great when it works but then it lulls you into a false sense of security and then WHAAM! Or rather ... Nothing.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    If if I weren't so embedded into Phase One gear I'd seriously consider the Pentax as the grown up DSLR. Just been shooting my DF+ again tonight and I seriously HATE the f'ing thing when it locks up. Great when it works but then it lulls you into a false sense of security and then WHAAM! Or rather ... Nothing.
    I know that feeling. Last time it happened to me was in the spring when I was on a long weekend shoot, and I only had the DF+ with me (I wanted to travel light.... ) , and it kept locking up to the point where the entire weekend was not enjoyable and my images suffered because I was so on edge. A month later, I no longer owned the DF or the lenses.
    Bryan

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    The main reason for using a MFD tech cam is usually lens movements, but of course people would be disappointed if it didn't have top notch lens performance, it's after all supposed to be the successor of large format film.

    I think it's interesting with these "sanity check" comparisons.

    It would be nice to test against some mid-range tech cam gear too. If you get say a second hand H3DII-50, smack it on a F-Universalis and a Kapture Group sliding back, and use some Schneider Digitar glass the cost is similar to a new Pentax 645z.

    Alpa, Rodenstock and Phase One is probably the most expensive choice you can make.

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    One over the other? Sorry, I just don't understand ... What is this 'over' or 'or' word?? There is no 'or' on this forum, just 'and'

    Ken/Don, how am I doing?

    Btw, that Pentax GAS in a box looks excellent at B&H. I could see them selling those easily.
    Graham, along those lines, we cannot wait for you to start the thread on your replacement tech cam purchase....for starters, the 90HRW should be replaced with the 90HRSW

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    Quote Originally Posted by voidshatter View Post
    I agree with you that the 28-45 sample I tested may be de-centered a bit, as I have also seen others posting razor sharp corners of that lens. However, if you look into the official website of Pentax, you would find similar test results of soft corners. I can only conclude that there could be some variance between samples, or possibly the field curvature is more severe when you focus close.

    Link to the sample image at Pentax's official website

    100% crop of bottom right corner:

    Name:  ex-pic02_corner.jpg
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    I have to agree with turtle, my version of the 28-45mm is never as soft as your examples. Perhaps there is some variation in samples of the lens. I note the Ricoh image you linked was taken at f/9 and the corner crop appears to be no more than a few feet from the lens; likely outside or near the DOF range.

    A corner crop from my sample. Handheld at 1/125.

    IMGP1787 copy by tsjanik47, on Flickr

    corner crop:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

Name:	cornMNIMGP1787 copy.jpg 
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ID:	114519  

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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Nice kit, all in a ready to go hard side case. Pentax took notice of Phase's packaging

    Smart offering by Pentax, making it 'easy' putting a good base kit all together. This year has been way too expensive already---this would be a kick-*** camera to convert to full spectrum/IR. I certainly can't justify a wide spectrum or Achromatic MFDB.

    ken
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    Re: Pentax 645Z vs Alpa technical camera

    Quote Originally Posted by tsjanik View Post
    I note the Ricoh image you linked was taken at f/9 and the corner crop appears to be no more than a few feet from the lens; likely outside or near the DOF range.
    Still, for this official sample image (grabbed from Pentax official website) I find it hard to believe why Region A is inside DoF while Region B is outside DoF, if not for field curvature or soft corner (or bad copy).

    Name:  ex-pic02_corner_annotated.jpg
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    Quote Originally Posted by tsjanik View Post
    A corner crop from my sample. Handheld at 1/125.
    corner crop:
    At least without a side-by-side comparison against a technical camera, this looks good enough (if the noise is not due to over-sharpening).

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