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Hasselblad CFV ll 50c

Godfrey

Well-known member
...
I want to see the difference in technology (if any) between the 907 and X1D before I make a decision.
If the 50c II + 907 has focus peaking, I might bite as focusing with the 50c mated with older lenses is a thin-thin slice.
I suspect the 907 has very little technology in it. It is basically just a holder for a back mount and lens mount, with a shutter release and a (possibly multifunction) control wheel on it. It's the difference in technology between the CFV50c II back and the X1D II that will be the discriminator. The X1D uses touch screen technology and 'soft' controls to implement most of its control functionality; there's no reason the CFV50c II cannot do so as well.

Like you, I look forward to seeing both camera setups in the flesh. I won't put money down on either until I can do that. :D

G
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
I know the 907x looks more "classic" but other than that why would one want to use the 907x over a x1d(ii), where I have a smaller sized body, more ergonomic user interface and a nice viewfinder? Did I oversee something?
If you're starting from scratch, and intending to buy XCD lenses anyway, it probably makes more sense to be more interested in the X1D. Whether it is actually smaller or not depends on a few things, as I indicated in the other thread already.

But ... If you're like me and many other folks who already have a complete V system setup, the CFV50c II is the less expensive and better choice to further the use of your Hasselblad gear, and the 907x and XCD lenses supplement that use.

Whether one is more ergonomic than the other again depends on how you intend to use the camera and, to some degree, on what you're used to. I'm very comfort and very used to the feel of my 500CM with WL finder, just as I was very comfortable and used to the feel of my SWC with its eye level finder... :)

G
 

darr

Well-known member
I know the 907x looks more "classic" but other than that why would one want to use the 907x over a x1d(ii), where I have a smaller sized body, more ergonomic user interface and a nice viewfinder? Did I oversee something?

Good question!
I cannot speak for others, but I am happy to explain my reasoning for considering the CFV 50c II and possibly a 907x:

Some quick background: I have been shooting the V system for 30+ years. First commercially, then as digital slowly replaced commercial film use, I made the switch, but continue to shoot film for art projects. The Hasselblad CF lenses I use have a look that is different from the Schneider and Rodenstock lenses I shoot with. I have shot the same test scenes on all apertures with CF lenses and Schneider lenses only to find the CF lenses have a different look I call a visual personality. Today I spend more time with art projects than commercial work and very much want to keep the CF lenses in my tool box.

When the first CFV-50c back came out a few years ago, I bought one. I have been using it on my Hasselblad cameras (501CM and Flexbody) and Alpa Max and TC cameras for a few years now. It is a competent back, but the 44x33 crop size gets old quickly with the tight aspect ratio of the CF lenses (1.7x crop factor if you shoot square).

If I can shoot the CF lenses with the 50c II back and have a better focusing tool like focus peaking, then I am interested. If the new back cannot offer focus peaking or an upgraded option for focusing over the 50c back I already use, then I am not interested, and will look into another digital back.

Focusing the CF lenses is a challenge. The focus plane is a sliver no matter what aperture you shoot at, and I figure that is where the unique look comes from. I have never experienced focusing issues with any lens on my digital backs other than the CF lenses so "designed for digital" does mean something. To me, the CF lenses are more like shooting older view camera lenses where the corners get so dark you can't see to focus, except it is not dark, it just looks like your in focus until you magnify it and see you have missed the focal plane by a painful smidgen. But when you nail it, oh the magic!

The X1D is a sweet looking camera, but if I cannot use CF lenses, shoot squares on film, and incorporate my tech cameras with it, it does not work for me.
The 907x mated with the 21/4 lens will be of interest to me for the aspect ratio if I get all the other stuff I want.
I am a Hasselblad fangirl from way back, because I have always appreciated their V system and glass.

Kind regards,
Darr
 

danlindberg

Well-known member
Finances aside, the CFV would be perfect addition for me. Same files in every respect as my current X1D means I have a backup camera within the same system but still can do different things. The X1D would still be preferred for portraits with the XCD90, while the CFV would be beautiful on the Alpa PLUS with tech lenses for example.
Or CFV + the XCD21 for a modern walk-around SWC. Maybe the CFV and my Canon FD to H adapter and put on the FDn 50/1.4 and shoot wide open for tons and tons of character (my copy is excellent). Of course, not to forget that I can dust off my old 500 CM and put on the CF 350 and give that a go.

So many ways of configuring this system. I like it. I like it a lot.
 

Photon42

Well-known member
Good question!
I cannot speak for others, but I am happy to explain my reasoning for considering the CFV 50c II and possibly a 907x:

Some quick background: I have been shooting the V system for 30+ years. First commercially, then as digital slowly replaced commercial film use, I made the switch, but continue to shoot film for art projects. The Hasselblad CF lenses I use have a look that is different from the Schneider and Rodenstock lenses I shoot with. I have shot the same test scenes on all apertures with CF lenses and Schneider lenses only to find the CF lenses have a different look I call a visual personality. Today I spend more time with art projects than commercial work and very much want to keep the CF lenses in my tool box.

When the first CFV-50c back came out a few years ago, I bought one. I have been using it on my Hasselblad cameras (501CM and Flexbody) and Alpa Max and TC cameras for a few years now. It is a competent back, but the 44x33 crop size gets old quickly with the tight aspect ratio of the CF lenses (1.7x crop factor if you shoot square).

If I can shoot the CF lenses with the 50c II back and have a better focusing tool like focus peaking, then I am interested. If the new back cannot offer focus peaking or an upgraded option for focusing over the 50c back I already use, then I am not interested, and will look into another digital back.

Focusing the CF lenses is a challenge. The focus plane is a sliver no matter what aperture you shoot at, and I figure that is where the unique look comes from. I have never experienced focusing issues with any lens on my digital backs other than the CF lenses so "designed for digital" does mean something. To me, the CF lenses are more like shooting older view camera lenses where the corners get so dark you can't see to focus, except it is not dark, it just looks like your in focus until you magnify it and see you have missed the focal plane by a painful smidgen. But when you nail it, oh the magic!

The X1D is a sweet looking camera, but if I cannot use CF lenses, shoot squares on film, and incorporate my tech cameras with it, it does not work for me.
The 907x mated with the 21/4 lens will be of interest to me for the aspect ratio if I get all the other stuff I want.
I am a Hasselblad fangirl from way back, because I have always appreciated their V system and glass.

Kind regards,
Darr
Live view with focussing aids (and auto focus with the 907) is certainly available with the new back. The problem with the V system will be, that you need to open the gates for that first. Which is ... clumsy at best. Fine with tripod, maybe.

I still have the old Mark I back to keep my 203 and 501 alive but honestly, I do not shot it often anymore. Focussing is difficult wide open, as you correctly stated, live view is close to useless for what I do. But when I pull it out, it definitely is a cool feeling to take pictures with it. 50 MP does it for me, seriously.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Live view with focussing aids (and auto focus with the 907) is certainly available with the new back. The problem with the V system will be, that you need to open the gates for that first. Which is ... clumsy at best. Fine with tripod, maybe.

I still have the old Mark I back to keep my 203 and 501 alive but honestly, I do not shot it often anymore. Focussing is difficult wide open, as you correctly stated, live view is close to useless for what I do. But when I pull it out, it definitely is a cool feeling to take pictures with it. 50 MP does it for me, seriously.
Hmm. I've never had any difficulty focusing my Hasselblad 500 series cameras and lenses. The Acute Matte screen is one of the best in the industry ... I updated the 500CM to that screen within days of buying the body in 2012. Why is it so much more difficult to focus when using a digital back on a 500 series SLR? Don't you focus the same way? That's what I did when I tested the CFV50c back, and my test photos seemed to be focused right on the money.

AF with XCD 21mm and the 907x body will be a nice plus. Of course, with the SWC I mostly just set focus by scale and got great results unless I was doing repro-copy with the camera, and then I used the ground glass back and a 45° prism finder. Using such a short focal length, wide field of view lens (and cropping to a square), you should set f/8 and 6 foot distance, then everything from about 3 feet to infinity should be be in reasonable focus. This isn't hard... :)

I've always put Hasselblad cameras on a tripod the vast majority of the time... That's how you get the most out of these fantastic lenses and the big format. Why is that now considered "clumsy"?

Sorry for all the questions. :)

G

"My sharpest lens is a sturdy tripod."
 

robmac

Well-known member
Make a slightly larger back with the real estate to take a removable tiltable OVF and a removable grip porting a 2ndry OLED and you have the next H series - that can morph into the CFV and/or strip-down for transport
 

fotophil

Member
The Hasselblad Flexbody provides a great means for using the Series V Lenses in conjunction with the CFV50c Digital Back. The two stage mechanism of the Flexbody is turned clockwise to cock the shutter and a second turn to open the aperture. At this point the shutter is open and the lens aperture is wide open such that in theory Live View composing and focusing is available. Hopefully the higher resolution LCD Screen and improved Live View Functionality of the CFV50c II will greatly enhance the Flexbody User Experience. Based upon the Flexibody mechanism I suspect that Hasselblad could have designed an Adapter to permit use of the Series V Lens Shutters with the X1D System. It is interesting that the Phase One Digital Backs in the V Mount had a pair of mounting mechanisms oriented at 90 degrees so the back could be attached in either position. Since the Phase One IQ150 or IQ250 Digital Backs have much better Live View Performance than the CFV50c, they are an alternative for Flexibody use.
 

sog1927

Member
Based upon the Flexibody mechanism I suspect that Hasselblad could have designed an Adapter to permit use of the Series V Lens Shutters with the X1D System. It is interesting that the Phase One Digital Backs in the V Mount had a pair of mounting mechanisms oriented at 90 degrees so the back could be attached in either position. Since the Phase One IQ150 or IQ250 Digital Backs have much better Live View Performance than the CFV50c, they are an alternative for Flexibody use.
Based on the fact that Hasselblad already builds an adapter to allow use of the V lens shutters on the H cameras (https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/362313-REG/Hasselblad_3043500_CF_Lens_Adapter_for.html), I tend to agree with you. ;)

As for making the CFV mountable in either position, I think this would make the mechanical coupling to V bodies unworkable. One of the nicest things about the CFV is the way it integrates seamlessly with even the oldest V bodies without the need for sync cables.
 

fotophil

Member
After using my CFV50c back for several years I have found that the use of a flash sync cable provides more convenient operation for shutter speeds longer than 1/8 sec. Cable free operation of the back works well with exposure times 1/8 sec and faster but requires adjustments to the digital back camera settings for longer times. Since I often shoot longer times, I found it easier to use a flash cable. The flash cable will also support bulb setting. I guess for my work style I would prefer having 90 degree rotation but cable free operation is handy most of the time.
 

fotophil

Member
Here is a detailed view of the connection ports (taken from the hands-on review on the DPReview website):



Flash sync is there, like in the previous version. :clap:
The original CFV50c uses a mechanical pin extending from the back side of the 500C camera body which is activated by the shutter release button and initiates the exposure thereby eliminating the need for an external cable connection. I image the new version 2 back uses the same technique so a flash sync cable is still required for non-Hasselblad Applications. Although the cable free aspect of the CFV50 Series backs is very convenient, the mechanical triggering device can be touchy and which leads to sync errors with the back. For example, in addition to errors resulting from the incorrect camera shutter speed settings on the back, the speed at which the camera release button is pushed can also affect the timing. In my experience the biggest weakness in original CFV50c back is a combination of very poor live view support and a low resolution LCD Screen. Hopefully the new version will address these issues.
 

fotophil

Member
As others have mentioned, the manual focus support of the original CFV50c Back is hampered by a poor live view design. One of the design goals for the new back must included an improvement in this area. I don't believe that there will be any autofocus support offered by the CFV50c II. It appears that the new 907X Body lens mount has electronic communication with the XCD lenses in order to support the shutter and aperture operation. I wonder if the 907X draws electrical power from the CFV50c-II battery or if it has a battery. I also wonder how the shutter release on the 907X triggers the CFV50c-II back. It's great that Hasselblad has given us some options for marrying our vintage gear with new digital technology.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
As others have mentioned, the manual focus support of the original CFV50c Back is hampered by a poor live view design. One of the design goals for the new back must included an improvement in this area. I don't believe that there will be any autofocus support offered by the CFV50c II. It appears that the new 907X Body lens mount has electronic communication with the XCD lenses in order to support the shutter and aperture operation. I wonder if the 907X draws electrical power from the CFV50c-II battery or if it has a battery. I also wonder how the shutter release on the 907X triggers the CFV50c-II back. It's great that Hasselblad has given us some options for marrying our vintage gear with new digital technology.
- Why is your focus with the original CFV50c hampered by a poor Live View design? Don't you focus your Hasselblad reflex camera the same way you always did, or is that for some reason not accurate with the digital back? Isn't Live View an adjunct to the standard reflex focusing system of the Hasselblad 500 series bodies as opposed to the only focusing mechanism for use with the CFV50c back?

(These are essentially the questions I asked before and got no comments on.)

- I can't see any space for a battery in the 907x body, so it must draw and pass through power from the CFV50c II back through the provided contacts on the back and the 907x body. Similarly, it has to power and control XCD lenses' servos and aperture the same way, as well as signal the body's shutter release button action, as well as that control knob that surrounds it, whatever that might do, to the back, etc.

- Since it has to pass through these control signals and power, there's no reason it cannot also drive the XCD lenses autofocus capabilities. Of course, there can't be any autofocus with V system lenses since they are manual focus lenses.

The CFV50c II back has inside it the same battery that powers the X1D bodies, so it should have plenty of power for all these things.

G
 

tcdeveau

Well-known member
- Why is your focus with the original CFV50c hampered by a poor Live View design? Don't you focus your Hasselblad reflex camera the same way you always did, or is that for some reason not accurate with the digital back? Isn't Live View an adjunct to the standard reflex focusing system of the Hasselblad 500 series bodies as opposed to the only focusing mechanism for use with the CFV50c back?

G
Recently I've stuck an H5D-50c back on a tech cam, which I believe has live view capabilities similar to the original CFV-50c.

Live view on the H5D-50c works, but the screen is relatively low resolution, it has a low refresh rate, it doesn't do well in bright sunlight, and can be slow to adjust to changing lighting conditions. I imagine live view on the original CFV-50c is similar. It works, but it's not great.

Live view on the original X1D is much much better than that of the H5D-50c, so if the CFV-50cII has live view on par with or better than the original X1D (or maybe equal to that of the X1DII), IMHO it will be much easier to use and produce better results than the live view of the original CFV-50c.
 

fotophil

Member
I use the CFV50c on my Flexbody, Arc Body, SWC and 500C as well as a Cambo Technical Camera. Although through-the-lens focusing is possible with all these cameras using a ground glass back as it was it the film days, I have trouble obtaining accurate focus on relatively dim ground glass images. The Live View Feature of a CMOS Digitsl Back has the potential for providing a much better alternative for precise focus and as a result most technical camera photography is now based upon Live View Focusing with CMOS Backs from Phase One and Leaf. Although the CFV50c back uses a CMOS Sensor, the primary application for the original Back was for Hasselblad single lens reflex cameras so the Live View Support Function was not optimized and the back was equipped with a relatively low resolution LCD Screen. Hopefully the new back will have good Live View Capabilities.

I don't know if the CFV50c-II will be able to support auto focus of the XCD lenses. As we discussed previously, the new 907X Body should be able to control shutter and aperture functions through the lens mount electrical contacts but is there is a means of data communication between the CFV50c and 907X to support Autofocus?

The CFV50c II back has inside it the same battery that powers the X1D bodies, so it should have plenty of power for all these things.

I wonder if the CFV50c-II Back will use the same battery as the X1D Series. The back will need some type of connection to provide power to the 907X Body. Alternatively the 907X might have a separate battery.

I am anxious to see the technical details of the new back as well as the price. I paid $10000 for my CFV50C back many years ago - I sure hope the new back has a lower price!
 
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