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Thread: Question about Tilt Shift vs Sensor Shift

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    New Member lamoreauxphoto's Avatar
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    Question about Tilt Shift vs Sensor Shift

    Is it true that itís superior to always move the sensor when controlling perspective for architecture vs moving the lens elements with a tilt shift lens?

    I currently own a GFX 50r with a full
    Suite of canon tilt shift lenses using the tech art adapter and want to get into the Arca Swiss RM3DI via their adapter for the GFX and Canon lenses as per the rep itís best to move the sensor and not the lens. Plus Iíll be able to laterally
    Shift and have rise and fall.


    Can someone explain the benefit as this setup is rather costly however it affords me the ability to shoot 6x9, use my GFX or even get a DB down the road.

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    Member Dante Alighieri's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Tilt Shift vs Sensor Shift

    Quote Originally Posted by lamoreauxphoto View Post
    .... get a DB down the road.
    I think you should just cut to the chase. Normally, I'd just entice you with an IQ4150. But there's a nice IQ3100, well-kept, and from a respected purgatory resident.

    See, https://www.getdpi.com/forum/gear-fs...80hr-more.html

    And then try the various technical camera models and lenses to see what suits your fancy.

    Dante
    "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here."

    Coming soon: "The Devil's Workshop"---Medium Format Digital Photography Workshops
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    Member PhiloFarmer's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Tilt Shift vs Sensor Shift

    Well......if I understand your question correctly...you're really asking about the difference between front-standard movements (like tilt-shift lenses imitate...), and rear-standard movements ("moving the sensor"...film...etc.).

    The answer to that question has nothing to do with equipment, but involves only optics and physics.

    "Front-standard" movements change the perspective of a subject as portrayed on the sensor/film, without changing the "geometry" of the subject.

    "Rear-standard" movements alter the geometry of the subject...for instance, making something "round" look more "oval."

    Other movements (like, shift & rise/fall) are a function of camera design, and is not a function of "lens" or "sensor."

    I'm hoping I'm understanding your question properly...

    Cheers,

    Hank
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    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Tilt Shift vs Sensor Shift

    With front tilt you can control focus across the plane. With rear tilt you can control perspective,

    with digital you can crop or distort for front tilt easily but less so for real tilt, albeit with the loss of pixels.
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    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Tilt Shift vs Sensor Shift

    For an architectural shot to control converging lines in your preferred composition you use rise or fall. If you can make your image in one exposure, then it does not matter if you shift the lens or the back. However, if you also would like to make your view/image wider by flatstitching two exposures by shifting left & right, then it is much better to keep the lens stationary and shift the back. (Tilt I rarely use in architectural shots, that is handy in landscapes to increase dof).
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    Re: Question about Tilt Shift vs Sensor Shift

    I have always understood that shifting is best when moving the back. This less parallax. I did this with the Zork adapter for years on Canon bodies before moving to a tech camera and DB.

    There is less shift available with a DB with wides than a Zork and Canon 6D and Pentax FA 35mm medium format lens. 18mm with Zork 12mm useable IMO with a tech camera and wides.

    Shifting to create one large single image.

    Paul C

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    Senior Member Pemihan's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Tilt Shift vs Sensor Shift

    Quote Originally Posted by danlindberg View Post
    For an architectural shot to control converging lines in your preferred composition you use rise or fall. If you can make your image in one exposure, then it does not matter if you shift the lens or the back. However, if you also would like to make your view/image wider by flatstitching two exposures by shifting left & right, then it is much better to keep the lens stationary and shift the back.
    Actually you can achieve the same with a combination of camera and lens shift. If you shift the lens 10mm to the left (or up) and the camera 10mm to the right (or down) (and vice versa) you get the same result.
    I did that with my Canon 1DSIII and 24mm T/S before I ventured into MF. I used a RRS rail with stops at 10mm to allow for quice shifting of the camera. However I only used it with left/right shifting for pano landscape.
    Last edited by Pemihan; 26th December 2019 at 05:57.

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    Re: Question about Tilt Shift vs Sensor Shift

    Another way to look at this is if you are looking to make one corrected shot, or multiple shots, which would combine for stitching.

    If one shot, it makes no difference if you shift front lens or back. Typically for architecture, as noted above, the two planes should be parallel (no tilt).

    If multiple shots (to be stitched), then best to move the back. This doesn't change the perspective, rather only the composition. Perspective shifts when you move the lens. Having said that, for landscape shots, the change from shifting the lens is minimal and you can get away with shifting the lens. But it is more pure to shift the back.

    Many of these movements can be replicated, or effected in post processing, but they aren't really the same as working in the field. There is a joy and discipline in working the tools as they were meant to be used.

    Hope this is clear.

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    New Member lamoreauxphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Tilt Shift vs Sensor Shift

    Quote Originally Posted by danlindberg View Post
    For an architectural shot to control converging lines in your preferred composition you use rise or fall. If you can make your image in one exposure, then it does not matter if you shift the lens or the back. However, if you also would like to make your view/image wider by flatstitching two exposures by shifting left & right, then it is much better to keep the lens stationary and shift the back. (Tilt I rarely use in architectural shots, that is handy in landscapes to increase dof).
    Thank you - Arca Swiss rep stated that when shifting with the back i will be using the better part of the lens vs shifting the lens itself and relying on mirrors etc in the lens elements.

    My other question is will I get the same amount of shift moving the back vs what Iím getting currently with the Tilt Shift mounted via adapter to my Fuji GFX50r?

    My intended setup is my GFX50r attached to the RM3Di tech camera and using Canon TS lenses via their EF adapter.

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    New Member lamoreauxphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Tilt Shift vs Sensor Shift

    Thanks for all the replies - Iíll also get the ability to rise and fall and laterally shift independently. Something I canít do that well with just using the knobs on the tilt shift lenses (you more or less have to choose rise fall or shift not a combo of both).

    My intended setup is this:

    I currently own a GFX50r and a TechArt adapter with Canon TSE 24 and 50 lenses

    Arca Swiss rep has the GFX mount to the RM3Di tech cam and the Arca EF adapter to use with Canon TS lenses due to their larger image circle. Per the rep, it works pretty well and heís sent me some images but my question is

    Will i get the same amount of rise and fall with this intended setup as I am currently using the adapter and tilt shift lens movements? I can nearly max out the 24 and 50 and get only mild vignetting - I never will Shift this far but just good to know.

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    Member PhiloFarmer's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Tilt Shift vs Sensor Shift

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Typically for architecture, as noted above, the two planes should be parallel (no tilt).
    Except....when you need to use swing-tilt to make "converging" lines appear parallel....

    Cheers,

    Hank
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    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Tilt Shift vs Sensor Shift

    Quote Originally Posted by lamoreauxphoto View Post

    My intended setup is my GFX50r attached to the RM3Di tech camera and using Canon TS lenses via their EF adapter.
    Can you reach infinity focus with this combination?
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    New Member lamoreauxphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Tilt Shift vs Sensor Shift

    Quote Originally Posted by danlindberg View Post
    Can you reach infinity focus with this combination?
    I don’t see why not. If I can get it with my TechArt adapter why would the RM3Di be any different? Possible further distance from the sensor?

    Also any idea on my previous reply to your post regarding if I’ll get the same amount of shift with the RM3Di setup as i will with the TechArt adapter and TS lenses or if it will be less?

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    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Tilt Shift vs Sensor Shift

    I am just doubting Fuji to AS adapter + RMD3i + AS to EF adaptor will be short enough distance for infinity, but it is great if it works. I don't know the answer, just make sure to confirm it works with your dealer before commitment.

    If it does work the only thing to worry about is mechanical vignetting adding the RMD3i, I can't see there would be any difference in optical vignetting since that should be determined by combination lens/sensor and not the shift 'device'.
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    New Member lamoreauxphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Tilt Shift vs Sensor Shift

    Quote Originally Posted by danlindberg View Post
    I am just doubting Fuji to AS adapter + RMD3i + AS to EF adaptor will be short enough distance for infinity, but it is great if it works. I don't know the answer, just make sure to confirm it works with your dealer before commitment.

    If it does work the only thing to worry about is mechanical vignetting adding the RMD3i, I can't see there would be any difference in optical vignetting since that should be determined by combination lens/sensor and not the shift 'device'.
    I confirmed and ordered the required adapters to use the GFX50r with the RM3Di and the Canon Lenses. Rod from Arca confirms no issue focusing to Infiniti. I have 10 days to return upon arrival
    If there is issues. Canít find many people running this setup but Iíll be the test subject
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    Senior Member danlindberg's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Tilt Shift vs Sensor Shift

    Great!! The more options the better
    Looking forward to see how this setup works out in real life shooting.
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    New Member lamoreauxphoto's Avatar
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    Re: Question about Tilt Shift vs Sensor Shift

    Quote Originally Posted by danlindberg View Post
    Great!! The more options the better
    Looking forward to see how this setup works out in real life shooting.
    Got the setup up and running and have only had a chance to do some basic shooting with it so far. From what I obsereve I have just about the same amount of movements as I did using the TechArt adapter and TS lens vs the RM3di as the shift vechicle.

    Images are tack sharp and easily focus to infiniti down to a TS-E 24mm lens with the GFX. All in all, I'm happy with it.

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