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Thread: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by alajuela View Post
    Hi

    I must be really dense, but I don't see any update of anything on the website.

    Phil

    Exactly.

    Hence the sarcasm in this thread. More effort seems to be placed on marketing and the psychology of being a passionate photographer.

    I'd rather see the resources shifted towards true firmware updates that address current feature sets that were promised---I'm not talking about R&D for future capabilities that were promises because the IQ4 has a real "computer inside."

    Damn----even Dante has not given any snarky uplifting words of wisdom here. Kudos to the Photographers being mentioned/celebrated---don't take anything away from them. But, stuck here in the inferno---- give us something worthwhile to look forward to Pase One!
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Its pretty lame... One hopes for more, especially from a company long well-regarded for their professional and substantive products.

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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    yes, zzzz

    although Miles was featured and he’s here on getdpi. So
    I'm afraid I've only been an occasional contributor here over the years but I have learned a great deal from many here who are similarly in Dante's grip. For which many thanks.
    Miles Flint
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Wow did they really make a big hype train and countdown to say:

    "Look at this picture"

    I suppose the next countdown we can expect is to notify us of today's date...
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Lame.

    The idea is fine, but the countdown thing is totally lame. I’ve never seen ANY company do a countdown for just adding some marketing hype to their website.

    Rapidly losing confidence in Phase’s ability to really deliver promised functional products to the customers that have financed them all these years.

    sad.
    wayne
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    that was truly a "are you serious" moment

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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Given the hype over IQ4 being a more easily updatable platform, innovation seems to pretty damned slow ... glacial in fact.

    I look after a solution that has 100’s thousands of users and processes billions of interactions per year. We deliver innovation and updates WEEKLY. Just saying ...
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    I really wonder if there's actually anyone working at Phase One reading this......GetDPI must be one of only a handful places on the inter-web with such a high concentration of their customers and potential customers, so if their marketing department has committed time and resources for that countdown shenanigan I wonder how they and their management would react to a thread like this one
    Binbin

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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by beano_z View Post
    I really wonder if there's actually anyone working at Phase One reading this......GetDPI must be one of only a handful places on the inter-web with such a high concentration of their customers and potential customers, so if their marketing department has committed time and resources for that countdown shenanigan I wonder how they and their management would react to a thread like this one
    Their “largest dealer in the world” responds to postings here. Says Phase Out has better math in their software than competitors, but I honestly cannot believe it bc of all the disappointing comments about the lack of upgrades for their top of the line db. So they do have their ears on the ground here.
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    Their “largest dealer in the world” responds to postings here. Says Phase Out has better math in their software than competitors, but I honestly cannot believe it bc of all the disappointing comments about the lack of upgrades for their top of the line db. So they do have their ears on the ground here.
    Darr,

    I read Doug's comments a bit differently. He claims that the math in Capture One is the best, and I have yet to see better color conversion (where it exists), so I won't argue. B&W, I'm still undecided. Phase One and their product and firmware upgrades are, I believe, even more frustrating to the dealers than they are to us. We hold the dealers responsible, but they can't simply fix the problem. They DO yell and scream at the parent company (I'm extrapolating from Leica, where I know a lot more about the dealer/company relationships), but they can't make the firmware/upgrade/whatever suddenly appear.

    Best,

    Matt
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    They are reading it, but reactions have been ,none existent‘.... the whole marketing stuff about the most powerful platform is the biggest joke ever.... I’m just glad I invested in Fuji as well, as the progress at phase one is like watching a dinosaur die...

    What happened to XF firmware updates? I love the XF but there are so many thing they could I prove it... where are the IQ4 fixes? Where are the new features? When are the most simplistic bugs fixed in capture one? Where are the new XT lenses? Where is a XT roadmap? I could go on for a long time, but I’m not sure anyone at phase one gives a **** about their customers.... if I would work like they do I would be out of business very quickly.

    It’s very sad to see a company I have been using and invested in heavily in the last 10 years go down that road.
    Christopher Hauser
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by MGrayson View Post
    Darr,

    I read Doug's comments a bit differently. He claims that the math in Capture One is the best, and I have yet to see better color conversion (where it exists), so I won't argue. B&W, I'm still undecided. Phase One and their product and firmware upgrades are, I believe, even more frustrating to the dealers than they are to us. We hold the dealers responsible, but they can't simply fix the problem. They DO yell and scream at the parent company (I'm extrapolating from Leica, where I know a lot more about the dealer/company relationships), but they can't make the firmware/upgrade/whatever suddenly appear.

    Best,

    Matt
    Thanks Matt. As a past PO buyer, and as someone that will upgrade to a newer db in the future, reading the postings regarding PO’s lack of addressing their customers software needs has been disturbing. If they can develop their post processing software so well, why the lack of attention to their db software? It does not make good business sense!

    Kind regards,
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    Thanks Matt. As a past PO buyer, and as someone that will upgrade to a newer db in the future, reading the postings regarding PO’s lack of addressing their customers software needs has been disturbing. If they can develop their post processing software so well, why the lack of attention to their db software? It does not make good business sense!

    Kind regards,
    Darr
    Just guessing here, but it sounds like a standard corporate restructuring screwup. They separate the C1 and DB teams in the org chart so far (like putting them in different companies) that they can't move a particularly strong trouble shooter from one project to the other. So there are, say, three strong people working on C1, and one harried programmer working on the DB firmware AND tethering AND who knows what else. Meanwhile, the tethering people on the C1 side aren't working closely with the DB guy, so you never get iPad compatibility.

    Like I said, just guessing, and could be WAY wrong, but I've seen this scenario too many times for it to be unlikely. And certainly "they don't care about their customers" is the least likely explanation of all.

    M
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    When I was deciding between XF and and H5X/H6X bodies, a big factor in my decision was firmware upgrades. Not long before that Phase One had pleasantly surprized IQ3-100 owners with an awesome firmware upgrade that included the *Electronic Shutter*. I assumed that with such a receptive hardware platform on the digital backs as well as XF, that such firmware upgrades would be the norm. Sadly nothing of any significant value has come out since then. What is the point of touting the upgradeability of a platform when there is no effort to actually provide features via firmware?

    I sincerely hope that Phase One engineers/designers are working on projects more valueable than XT.

    IQ3-100, Capture One and XF are products that I bought with open eyes and I do feel I made the right decision, however at the moment I dont see anything Phase One has announced or currently offering that I find even remotely tempting. May be the technology has reached a point where it is "good enough" and any further improvements are just academic. I hope I am wrong.
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    I am not a Phase One user, however, I am empathetic to their plight. The current owners of Phase One stated that their interest in acquiring the company was because of the software business. If that remains the priority, then it is not surprising that things move slowly on the hardware side. The management is probably focusing on how they will grow the software business and profit from the investment.

    If this is the case, for current hardware owners it will probably get worse before it gets better.

    At the moment, it appears that in the medium format camera market there are only two stable companies; a large multinational (Fujifilm) and a family-owned (Leica). It is apparent that they have differing objectives from each other, as well as Phase One.
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by kdphotography View Post
    Exactly.



    Damn----even Dante has not given any snarky uplifting words of wisdom here. .... But, stuck here in the inferno---- give us something worthwhile to look forward to Phase One!
    Well, there's always Leica. How's that M10 Monochrome working for you?

    Patience, please. There will always be plenty to keep everyone entertained in the Inferno. This isn't the first (nor last) delay from Phase One. It will come.

    --Dante
    "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here."

    Coming soon: "The Devil's Workshop"---Medium Format Digital Photography Workshops
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    It's pretty telling when a place like GetDPI (home to lovers of all things new and shiny) mocks a P1 countdown. No disrespect meant to any of the photographers whose work was showcased (great work!).

    I'm sure dealers are frustrated too (they've even voiced frustration on GetDPI themselves), and I don't think I'd want to be in their shoes the way the IQ4 launch has gone so far.

    Hope they get things back on track soon and it doesn't take another hardware release to get the IQ4 platform to where people want it to be.
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    They are not even able to fix super simple things in Capture One. Tangent support with version 20 is still not fixed and I talked to people working at tangent and got tangent support... it’s freaking simple... a matter of minutes....


    Quote Originally Posted by dj may View Post
    I am not a Phase One user, however, I am empathetic to their plight. The current owners of Phase One stated that their interest in acquiring the company was because of the software business. If that remains the priority, then it is not surprising that things move slowly on the hardware side. The management is probably focusing on how they will grow the software business and profit from the investment.

    If this is the case, for current hardware owners it will probably get worse before it gets better.

    At the moment, it appears that in the medium format camera market there are only two stable companies; a large multinational (Fujifilm) and a family-owned (Leica). It is apparent that they have differing objectives from each other, as well as Phase One.
    Christopher Hauser
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Just put in a support query on C1 12, and got it answered the next day. Something still works.

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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    the one thing you dont want to feel, after dropping tens of thousands of $ on a product, is "I'm not their target customer"
    plain and simple, this is the way I feel about Phase One and it will only change when one of us in the relationship makes a move.

    I am seriously getting cold feet being in the P1 ecosystem, and think I could be just as ignored if I went back to a Hasselblad system but at least I'd have a better feeling camera in my hands and I'd have a truckload more cash in the bank
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Darr, is that a Freudian slip - see highlight below: It seems so apt!

    Quote Originally Posted by darr View Post
    Their “largest dealer in the world” responds to postings here. Says Phase Out has better math in their software than competitors, but I honestly cannot believe it bc of all the disappointing comments about the lack of upgrades for their top of the line db. So they do have their ears on the ground here.
    Instagram
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by pelorus View Post
    darr, is that a freudian slip - see highlight below: :rotfl: It seems so apt!
    Yeah
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boinger View Post
    Wow did they really make a big hype train and countdown to say:

    "Look at this picture"

    I suppose the next countdown we can expect is to notify us of today's date...
    Obviously, they didn't disappoint.

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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by dj may View Post
    At the moment, it appears that in the medium format camera market there are only two stable companies; a large multinational (Fujifilm) and a family-owned (Leica). It is apparent that they have differing objectives from each other, as well as Phase One.
    You can add H/B into the mix as well now that they're owned by DJI.

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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    I’m not sure that I’d class Phase One as being anything less than “stable”. Now their marketing programme is suspect but not their products, even with their appalling IQ4 update performance.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    I have a feeling that their hardware business is more focused on the industrial side of things where there's probably way more money to be made than on us mortal photographers. On the other hand they developed the XT, so it's kinda hard to tell what's going on. One thing is for sure and that is that the IQ4 launch and promises are

    Maybe I should go and knock on their door next time I'm going to Copenhagen.

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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    F*** the XT - the majority of us use other tech platforms or the XF system. And we’re not looking to change anytime soon.
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    The World is a book, and those that do not travel read only one page ...
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    F*** the XT - the majority of us use other tech platforms or the XF system. And we’re not looking to change anytime soon.
    True, I agree! My point was simply that they have put some resources into other things than the industrial sector. Why on earth they don't deliver on the IQ4 150 platform is a mystery, I'm sure they have the manpower and talent to do so, so it must be a deliberate choice they are making. Why is a mystery to me.
    Last edited by Pemihan; 28th February 2020 at 08:51.

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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Perhaps the IQ4 was to „robust“ and is so „powerful“ that you need an IQ5 with less of both to provide features we were used to on the IQ3.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pemihan View Post
    True, I agree! My point was simply that they have put some resources into other things than the industrial sector. Why on earth they don't deliver on the IQ4 150 platform is a mystery, I'm sure they have the manpower and talent to do so, so it must be a conscious choice they are making. Why is a mystery to me.
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Perhaps the IQ4 was to „robust“ and is so „powerful“ that you need an IQ5 with less of both to provide features we were used to on the IQ3.
    I wonder whether or not the numerous issues we think are firmware issues are really hardware related, and a fix may therefore require a redesign of the hardware itself.

    If firmware could fix them, I am sure P1 probably already would have released such firmware.

    But I am only guessing.

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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by dj may View Post
    it appears that in the medium format camera market there are only two stable companies; a large multinational (Fujifilm) and a family-owned (Leica)
    For technical camera, Leica is no good because of the mirror the flange distance is too great, but Fujifilm GFX 100 is looking better the longer I think about it. Actually it is the only 44x33 camera with a back-illuminated sensor which is great for shifting and stitching (no color cast issues). And there are now Silvestri and Linhof adapters for mounting the Fujifilm GFX.

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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    The "Infinity Platform" should really be renamed to "Dunder Mifflin Infinity".

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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    In a nutshell, I think the problem (and hence the resulting frustration and sarcasm here from IQ4 users about the silly countdown campaign) is that Phase One is taking the time/resources to develop campaigns to reach out to prospective "new" customers, but at the same time has done nothing or next to nothing to communicate or pass information about promised features/firmware/fixes to its current IQ4 user/client base. Adding insult to injury is that many, if not most, IQ4 users are longtime Phase One customers.

    C'mon, Phase One. Just a few words of confidence, even if merely via your dealer network, to the residents of Dante's Inferno would go a long way. You could even post an IQ4 feature/firmware update countdown on your website.

    Ken

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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    As to what's going on, who knows? A very rational, stable reasonable company shows signs of misdirection. Disconcerting. One thought is that the stabilizing top management was replaced with the new owners, and the "designers" and marketing folks are talking more directly, but without what one might call "senior leadership". Thus there is emphasis on making something new, the XT, which solves a design problem (lack of copal shutters, and suggests a better integrated solution) and market needs (lets go get all those young moneyed hobbyists, who want simpler operation than using clunky tech cameras), but misses a fundamental issue - that it requires significant upgrade of lenses to an expensive and a very small list (so far); isn't optimal with older lenses or backs; and costs a fortune. Not to mention that the emphasis should have been on the IQ4, which needs help. Remember existing customer base? In chasing after a new audience, they aren't quite looking after their faithful.

    They have numbers we don't see - where their money comes from. Maybe its largely from software, with minor back sales needing a new platform. Seems odd - they have the digital back world pretty much to themselves (so far), and in the face of price pressure from below, it feels like they are encouraging folks to leave their system.
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoff View Post
    Seems odd - they have the digital back world pretty much to themselves (so far)
    Their only competitor, Hasselblad's H system, is also seeing little love from their well-heeled Chinese owner.

    If they don't invest or show an interest in their hardware, the buying public should be hesitant to do likewise (unless severely discounted).

    Wonder what's the future of the digital 645 format will be?

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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    It does make me think the company is either teetering at the brink of bankruptcy or the new owners just aren’t making the return they want and aren’t willing to spend more to make things right. Either way they seem to be unable to move forward. Maybe some enterprising group of P1 back owners should form a consortium to buy controlling interest in the company.
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Craig Stocks View Post
    It does make me think the company is either teetering at the brink of bankruptcy or the new owners just aren’t making the return they want and aren’t willing to spend more to make things right. Either way they seem to be unable to move forward. Maybe some enterprising group of P1 back owners should form a consortium to buy controlling interest in the company.
    I’d rather spend my money buying an amusement park with bumping cars, a few cases of single malt, and then we can all go and release our frustrations.
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDude View Post
    For technical camera, Leica is no good because of the mirror the flange distance is too great, but Fujifilm GFX 100 is looking better the longer I think about it. Actually it is the only 44x33 camera with a back-illuminated sensor which is great for shifting and stitching (no color cast issues). And there are now Silvestri and Linhof adapters for mounting the Fujifilm GFX.
    They have the HR Digaron S 5,6/23mm listed as being compatible with their Flexicam

    https://www.silvestricamerashop.it/s...-flexicam.html

    but that has to be a mistake right?

    I thought all lenses below 60mm or thereabouts were no good?

  39. #89
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by wallpaperviking View Post
    They have the HR Digaron S 5,6/23mm listed as being compatible with their Flexicam
    The combination, Flexicam, Digaron-S 23mm, and Fuji GXF is not compatible.

    The Digaron-S 23mm has an insufficient flange distance for use with the Fuji GXF.

    Linhof's GXF adapter has 50mm between sensor and lensboard. I assume, similar for Silvestri's adapter. As far as I can tell, most Digaron lenses have an insufficient flange distance for not requiring their rear element inside the GXF adapter cavity, but their rear element is too large to fit!


    P.S. But I wonder whether it would be possible to fixate a plain back adapter onto a GXF camera and then to machine away the G-mount for a larger and easier assessable cavity space inside the GXF camera for any rear lens element?
    I assume, only a question of time before there will be a GXF 100R (with the 100MP sensor), which could make this a cost-efficient proposition.
    Last edited by TheDude; 6th March 2020 at 04:10.

  40. #90
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Is anyone still buying Phase One backs after Fuji's $10K GFX100? You would have to have money to burn to pick P1 over Fuji and even then I doubt it would be a good decision.

  41. #91
    Member Mexecutioner's Avatar
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Is anyone still buying Phase One backs after Fuji's $10K GFX100? You would have to have money to burn to pick P1 over Fuji and even then I doubt it would be a good decision.
    Yes, not all of us are broke.

    Even if it is a bad decision, it is still our decision.
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  42. #92
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Is anyone still buying Phase One backs after Fuji's $10K GFX100? You would have to have money to burn to pick P1 over Fuji and even then I doubt it would be a good decision.
    But have you tried it, or is this just blind judgement?
    Al Simmons
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    Instagram: @teamwork_photo / @alvin_simonides
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  43. #93
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Doug, Doug, Doug, Doug. You still here?

    Some enjoy Phase One's digital backs for their capabilities with a technical camera. There really is not a substitute. The price-point of entry of the Fuji is one of its strong points, but that is far from the whole story or photographic journey in medium format digital. There are many choices and a lot of different price-points. I'm glad that there isn't a one-size fits all solution. That would be rather boring in the Inferno, no?

    I hope you've grown tired of your Nikon DSLR. Have you tried the new Fuji GFX? It sounds like a solid re-entry in the Inferno for you.

    I miss you, Doug.

    --Dante
    "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here."

    Coming soon: "The Devil's Workshop"---Medium Format Digital Photography Workshops
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  44. #94
    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Remember the translation rules of internet fora:

    Company X must do Y to survive => I wish Company X would do Y
    Only professionals do X => I do X
    Only Hipster Posers use X => I can't afford X (See also Bankers, Doctors, Crazy people, etc.)
    If Company X releases Camera Y for more than $Z, it will fail => I want Camera Y, but I probably can't justify $Z.
    Company X is doomed since Company Y's new camera came out => I just bought Company Y's new camera.
    Format X is vastly superior to Format Y => I just moved from Format Y to Format X (See also camera, lens, shoulder strap...)

    Matt
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  45. #95
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Once upon a time, I heard a story about someone who knew the price of everything and the value of nothing.

    I heard many times, it is not wise to choose the lowest price.

    Someone is reported to have said that one should buy the best that he/she can afford.

    I have been known to say "price is irrelevant; value is what matters." This was both when I was buying and when I was selling.

    Back to the program.
    Best regards,
    Jesse
    djessemay.com

  46. #96
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    But does Phase One still offer value for money ? Thats the question
    Last edited by Massive Si; 5th March 2020 at 15:27.

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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Is anyone still buying Phase One backs after Fuji's $10K GFX100? You would have to have money to burn to pick P1 over Fuji and even then I doubt it would be a good decision.
    ...is something wrong with your eyesight?

    Greetings Gerd
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  48. #98
    Subscriber & Workshop Member GrahamWelland's Avatar
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Don’t bait the troll ...
    Remember: adventure before dementia!

    The World is a book, and those that do not travel read only one page ...
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  49. #99
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by Massive Si View Post
    But does Phase One still offer value for money ? Thats the question
    That depends on what you value.
    If you desire 150mp images and value the ability to frame average at the push of a button (amount other features)then I would imagine phase is the ideal solution if you have the budget.

    P1 doesn’t offer VFM for my business as at the end of the day there is no increase in ease of use or time saved on shoots. And fiscally it just doesn’t make sense when the £10-£30k saved by not jumping on that bandwagon can be spent on wine, mid century furniture, travel or just saved for a rainy day/retirement.

    If clients want 150mp then hire and stick it on their bill.

    If I was in the repro/cultural heritage business and had the volume to shoot I’m sure they would have my business, or if they released a product that suited my needs that wasn’t twice the price of the competition.

    As you can see I apply logic not sentiment to purchasing so Dante has no hold over me.
    They are just tools for a job.

  50. #100
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    Re: Another Phase One countdown on their website. What now?

    Quote Originally Posted by MrSmith View Post
    That depends on what you value.
    If you desire 150mp images and value the ability to frame average at the push of a button (amount other features)then I would imagine phase is the ideal solution if you have the budget.

    P1 doesn’t offer VFM for my business as at the end of the day there is no increase in ease of use or time saved on shoots. And fiscally it just doesn’t make sense when the £10-£30k saved by not jumping on that bandwagon can be spent on wine, mid century furniture, travel or just saved for a rainy day/retirement.

    If clients want 150mp then hire and stick it on their bill.

    If I was in the repro/cultural heritage business and had the volume to shoot I’m sure they would have my business, or if they released a product that suited my needs that wasn’t twice the price of the competition.

    As you can see I apply logic not sentiment to purchasing so Dante has no hold over me.
    This is exactly my feeling

    Phase had the ability to keep value in their range, even the IQ3, with firmware updates, but decide not to.

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