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Thread: Sony a750

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    Super Duper
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    Sony a750

    Apparently this was leaked a bit early... In short 14.6 MP/ Full Frame... If this can slide in around $1300-1500 USD Sony could make a dent in the prosumer dSLR market if not cannibalize SOME a850 sales.

    http://gizmodo.com/5393413/146+megap...r-leaked-early
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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Re: Sony a750

    Thanks Arm, interesting.
    But I doubt it is full frame, the viewfinder prism doesn't look all that big ?
    And I'd guess the 7xx model number designates an APS-C sensor based Sony DSLR ?
    I hope I'm wrong

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    Re: Sony a750

    I am hoping it is APS-C with an EXMOR-R sensor.

    If that is the case, I will be buying one (although a similar Nikon model with a higher price tag is also likely).

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Re: Sony a750

    Interesting point, Vivek.
    I'm probably going to keep my APS-C D300 for many years for use (hopefully) with a tele lens.
    I hope that we will soon see either a Nikkor f4 or 5.6/400 VR, or a 4/300 VR. Please, Nikon
    But I expect my next camera (probably Sony or Nikon) to be a full frame one for two reasons:
    (1) the larger resolution, or the larger (= ~ 8-9 micron) pixel pitch
    (2) and - especially - a larger and brighter viewfinder. My main reason for wanting full frame !
    Why would you prefer to stick with the APS-C sensor format in the future, is it for the somewhat smaller and lighter "DX" optics, or ... ?

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    Re: Sony a750

    Steen, I only have two "DX" lenses- the 18-55 kitzoom and the Sigma 30/1.4
    (I overlook the 10.5mm fisheye. all these work wonderfully for IR as well).

    My two reasons for the EXMOR-R sensor.

    1. Higher sensitivity with lower noise than the current CMOS.
    2. High spectral sensitivity (after removal of the UV/IR cut filters) in UV and IR unlike the current CMOS sensors.

    It is unlikely that we will see a FF EXMOR-R sensor before an APS-C sized one.
    I do not particularly like or dislike the crop or no crop.

    FWIW, even a tinier m4/3rds sensored G1 is my most used at the moment (not because of its image quality but for its versatility).

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    Senior Member edwardkaraa's Avatar
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    Re: Sony a750

    I see sony introducing one camera after the other, but the fact remains the lens offer is very limited. If they don't do anything to correct this lack soon, very few will buy their cameras.
    M262 ZM 25/2.8 35/1.4 50/2 85/2

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    nautilus
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    Re: Sony a750

    My understanding in respect of EXMOR-R technology is that it makes better use of it's skills with high pixel density sensors with very small sensor elements. Sensors that are used in compact cameras and cell phones. Therefore it shouldn't provide advantages when used as DSLR sensors.
    Roughly said, only larger sensor elements provide better noise behaviour and to a certain degree camera internal data processing. The latter is responsible for what we see in modern cameras like Alpha 550. And not to forget the CMOS advantage compared to CCD's due to better possibilities for noise reduction and prevention.

    On the basis of that situation I think it's possible that Sony will offer a FF camera below 20mpix due to the big demand for such a camera. If they name it A750, A800 or something else is not so important.

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    Re: Sony a750

    Quote Originally Posted by nautilus View Post
    My understanding in respect of EXMOR-R technology is that it makes better use of it's skills with high pixel density sensors with very small sensor elements.
    Just because Sony can only manufacture small sized EXMOR-R sensors at the moment, you see them used in their Camcorders and P&S cameras.

    The size advantage you think isn't true. If they make a FF EXMOR-R sensor (it will be expensive), it would still perform better (noise, DR) than the current CMOS sensors.

  9. #9
    nautilus
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    Re: Sony a750

    I can only reference the marketing like explanation that Sony presents on their website.
    They explain -R works like that:
    they remove the wires from the front to the back of the light sensitive area.
    If the wires are on the front they cover or shade the sensor elements.
    My personal conclusion is of course simplified, but you need the same number of wires for 10 million sensor elements, if these are large (DSLR) or small (compact camera) doesn't matter. Each wire covers the same area (in absolute measures) of a sensor, may it be a DSLR sensor or a compact camera. But if the sensor area of a DSLR and each sensor element is maybe 20 times larger than that of a compact camera, the wires shade a 20 times higher percentage of the light sensitive area in a compact camera.
    The advantage of a -R compact may be 1 or two stops. Then the advantage in an -R DSLR would be 1/10th of one stop. Nobody would see this minor change.
    Therfore I think that -R is only efficient for compact cameras.

    Of course I could be wrong, but I only have this marketing explanation from Sony's website.

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    Senior Subscriber Member Steen's Avatar
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    Re: Sony a750

    Quote Originally Posted by edwardkaraa View Post
    I see sony introducing one camera after the other, but the fact remains the lens offer is very limited. If they don't do anything to correct this lack soon, very few will buy their cameras.
    You hit the nail on the head, Edward.

    Among the Alpha optics I'm only interested in the Zeiss primes. So far there are two to choose among. 85mm and 135mm. And they are so close in focal length that I would probably only buy one of them. The ZA lenses could make the strongest competition parameter for the Alpha system. But Sony doesn't seem to be really interested in that strategy.

    For me it is a huge mystery why Sony + Zeiss do not take advantage of the rare and strong combination of affordable high end full frame Sony cameras and high end quality optical Zeiss formulas with a full range of autofocus ZA lenses ? Who else in the market would be able to offer anything similar ?

    Sony is a very strong sensor manufacturer, and Zeiss is an ultra high quality optics manufacturer. Together they have the potential to make a succesful Contax N system successor. Kyocera failed with the digital Contax DSLR, but Sony obviously knows how to do it right. I'm convinced they could gain a lot of market share if only they knew how to really join their forces. In fact it would leave them without equally strong competitors in the 35mm DSLR market.

    Apparently Zeiss has less than no influence on the decisions in the Alpha project. Looks like the Alpha circus is exclusively a Sony circus. Thus the few ZA models, especially primes.

    Since the demise of Leicas R system as a DSLR system, Zeiss has an outstanding opportunity. Zeiss just needs to find the right partner, in a real and equal partnership. In fact I believe Sony is potentially the right partner if only it were an equal partnership. Obviously it is not.

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Sony a750

    It looks to me like the Sony sensor that sits in the A500 and the Pentax K-x is the best one right now (with a possible exception for the Canon 7D, but Canon seems to struggle with a few issues before they get it right... again). I couldn't care less if it's full frame or DX or whatever. The noise characteristics seems to be better than the FF sensor in the A850/900 anyway. My guess is that there will be a DX size sensor in the A750, probably around 15MP.The A850 is the cheapest FF camera already, so there's no reason for Sony to push the price further down at the moment.

    I agree that the lens selection is rather limited for Sony, but a bigger problem for me is that the good ones are so large. I carry my cameras everywhere, and I use the best lenses that I can afford, but an A850 plus the 135mm takes up more room in my bag than a Pentax K-7 and four or five Limited primes. While this isn't a problem for all photographers, it is for some, and unless Sony can come up with some compact quality lenses, this may limit their market potential somewhat.

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    Re: Sony a750

    Quote Originally Posted by nautilus View Post

    Of course I could be wrong, but I only have this marketing explanation from Sony's website.

    I think that could be it.

    My understanding is (S/N and DR, in this order, roughly):

    Back thinned CCD, CCD, EXMOR-R, sCMOS, CMOS

    (sCMOS is a Fairchild creation http://www.scmos.com/, again, don't go by the size of the sensor available now)

  13. #13
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    Re: Sony a750

    Quote Originally Posted by bondo View Post
    You hit the nail on the head, Edward.

    Among the Alpha optics I'm only interested in the Zeiss primes. So far there are two to choose among. 85mm and 135mm. And they are so close in focal length that I would probably only buy one of them. The ZA lenses could make the strongest competition parameter for the Alpha system. But Sony doesn't seem to be really interested in that strategy.

    For me it is a huge mystery why Sony + Zeiss do not take advantage of the rare and strong combination of affordable high end full frame Sony cameras and high end quality optical Zeiss formulas with a full range of autofocus ZA lenses ? Who else in the market would be able to offer anything similar ?

    Sony is a very strong sensor manufacturer, and Zeiss is an ultra high quality optics manufacturer. Together they have the potential to make a succesful Contax N system successor. Kyocera failed with the digital Contax DSLR, but Sony obviously knows how to do it right. I'm convinced they could gain a lot of market share if only they knew how to really join their forces. In fact it would leave them without equally strong competitors in the 35mm DSLR market.

    Apparently Zeiss has less than no influence on the decisions in the Alpha project. Looks like the Alpha circus is exclusively a Sony circus. Thus the few ZA models, especially primes.

    Since the demise of Leicas R system as a DSLR system, Zeiss has an outstanding opportunity. Zeiss just needs to find the right partner, in a real and equal partnership. In fact I believe Sony is potentially the right partner if only it were an equal partnership. Obviously it is not.
    I quite agree - what a marketing opportunity is being missed! I have the 24-70 and the 135 and they are superb. But where are the others - particularly primes and long telephotos? I switched from Canon because of the potential...but it doesn't seem to be coming.

    Bill

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    Re: Sony a750

    Quote Originally Posted by bondo View Post
    You hit the nail on the head, Edward.

    Among the Alpha optics I'm only interested in the Zeiss primes. So far there are two to choose among. 85mm and 135mm. And they are so close in focal length that I would probably only buy one of them. The ZA lenses could make the strongest competition parameter for the Alpha system. But Sony doesn't seem to be really interested in that strategy.

    For me it is a huge mystery why Sony + Zeiss do not take advantage of the rare and strong combination of affordable high end full frame Sony cameras and high end quality optical Zeiss formulas with a full range of autofocus ZA lenses ? Who else in the market would be able to offer anything similar ?

    Sony is a very strong sensor manufacturer, and Zeiss is an ultra high quality optics manufacturer. Together they have the potential to make a succesful Contax N system successor. Kyocera failed with the digital Contax DSLR, but Sony obviously knows how to do it right. I'm convinced they could gain a lot of market share if only they knew how to really join their forces. In fact it would leave them without equally strong competitors in the 35mm DSLR market.

    Apparently Zeiss has less than no influence on the decisions in the Alpha project. Looks like the Alpha circus is exclusively a Sony circus. Thus the few ZA models, especially primes.

    Since the demise of Leicas R system as a DSLR system, Zeiss has an outstanding opportunity. Zeiss just needs to find the right partner, in a real and equal partnership. In fact I believe Sony is potentially the right partner if only it were an equal partnership. Obviously it is not.
    Could not have said it any better!

  15. #15
    glenfoxman
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    Sony a750

    I am very curious about a new UX too. Sony is supposed to be making some announcement on new laptops on the 15th so maybe well hear about an Atom based UX. But here in Tokyo they still have the UX, albeit marked down. I am thinking with the Sharp D4 being out here Sony must be coming up with a new micro-pc.
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