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Thread: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

  1. #201
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim DE View Post
    The best thing about these transient mudslinger's and their negative comments about Sony and it's hardware is that it seems to be building a united Sony users group to tell these transients to pack sand!!!!

    Nice to know I am not the only one fed up with their games!!!! One would of thought the data in DXOMark would do all the talking for us but I guess some people just enjoy arguing from bad ground and looking foolish in another persons home.
    DXOMark tests will get thrown around again once their brand of choice has a marginal advantage again over the marginal sensor advantage that Sony enjoys over the Nikon D810 (which had a marginal advantage over the A7R.)

    Don't worry that day will come again and we will be reminded of our inferior choices (in condescending tones) of how cameras are tools yet emotional connection is more important than image quality (when it suits their argument.) Technical prowess is important but only when their camera brand of choice is the most technically advanced camera. If Sony happens to have the most technically camera then it's only because they're and electronics company building gadgets... Oh and they should tap into the camera know how of the failed Konica Minolta brand that they bought at a bargain because they didn't keep up with the market direction.

    I think that covers it.
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Tre, You missed the poor battery performance.
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Tre, You missed the poor battery performance.
    You're correct sir and the recommendation for Sony to make up get rid of the compact batteries (that are on sale often) that we've used since the original NEX-5.
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    4 Sony cameras - 9 batteries!
    Repeat after me:
    NO NEW BATTERIES! NO NEW BATTERIES! NO NEW BATTERIES!
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by jfirneno View Post
    Jorgen:
    It turns out you are right and I am wrong. GetDPI Sony forum enjoys your fascinating and and in no way repetitive posts. Unfortunately I have a defect that makes it impossible for me to enjoy this wisdom. Adios folks and enjoy the show.
    Well maybe I was wrong when I said I was wrong. It seems a few folks feel about the same as I do. I guess it all depends on what you think is appropriate. But I've figured out my own solution. I've availed myself of the ignore function for a few folks. From now on you can call Sony the devil for all I care. Ignorance is bliss.
    Regards,
    John
    Sony fanboy, shamelessly shilling for "the man" since 2010.
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by Eoin View Post
    Absolutely zero interest in large, heavy and extremely expensive 2.8 zooms. I don't care how good they are.
    For too long I carried the heft of Canon and Sony Alpha A mount Cameras and lenses. My photography hasn't changed, I've just decided small and light is the way I want to go.

    Portraiture is a particular area I take a lot of images in, I may compromise and take a serious look at the 85G. But it would want to be absolutely spectacular and ooze character for me to move from my MF primes. The f/1.4 is an absolute waste for this purpose, f/3.2 is the sweet spot for what I need @85mm, other than that everything else shot at wider apertures is purely for area isolation.

    Others may have a need for it and I'm happy that Sony has come to the table with quality glass that meets their requirements.
    I on the other hand feel neglected, the 35 f/2.8 & 55 f/1.8 showed what could be achieved in a small compact FF Lens changeable system, they seem to have shifted the goal posts.

    So now the wait continues ....
    To me, autofocus, and sharpness at f1.4 are essential features. Not sure how good 85 is so I have to wait until reviews come out.

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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post

    Now you guys just need a real FE pro body to match with it. Don't tell me the A7RmkII make the grade ... it don't. My little finger tell me there is maybe a new FE body soon.
    It's nice that you like the Leica, that it works for you in ways the Sony mirrorless cams do not.

    However, when you claim it isn's a "real" pro body, I doubt many will agree with you. Sorry, there are WAY too many working pros who are doing quite well with Sony.
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    So, I hope a professional grade A8 or A9 or whatever they call it doesn't grow too much in size and weight over the A7r2.

    Now that Sony has announced their GM lens line in the way they did, it would be surprising if a new A7 type FE camera wouldn't be forth coming in relatively short order. I hope it'll beat the Leica SL in all remaining important aspects. The A7r2 already does for many features of interest to me.
    What would distinguish the next A camera as "professional grade"?

    Other than the viewfinder, what aspects of the Leica SL will the next Sony A camera need to exceed?

    - Marc
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    What would distinguish the next A camera as "professional grade"?

    Other than the viewfinder, what aspects of the Leica SL will the next Sony A camera need to exceed?

    - Marc

    Thanks Mark. I personally don't pay any significance to the term "professional grade".
    I simply used that term as it was used earlier in this thread. That's all.
    My A7r2 is certainly a very fine camera.

    Besides a better viewfinder all the things the A7r2 already is better at.
    I certainly would hope the next A* increases overall speed and IQ as well.
    USB3, larger and faster buffers to match the speed of really fast memory cards.
    Better tracking, a refined user interface, similar size and weight as A7r2, etc. ... .

    Mark, what would you like to see? TIA.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by k-hawinkler View Post
    Thanks Mark. I personally don't pay any significance to the term "professional grade".
    I simply used that term as it was used earlier in this thread. That's all.
    My A7r2 is certainly a very fine camera.

    Besides a better viewfinder all the things the A7r2 already is better at.
    I certainly would hope the next A* increases overall speed and IQ as well.
    USB3, larger and faster buffers to match the speed of really fast memory cards.
    Better tracking, a refined user interface, similar size and weight as A7r2, etc. ... .

    Mark, what would you like to see? TIA.
    I think "Professional" is a moving target, dependent on the profession. There are some common aspects I'd like to see in a higher spec A7R-III or A8 (or whatever).

    However, one disconcerting thing about Sony is the constant half-done cameras pouring out of them at a bankrupting rate. Professional implies "for profit", and I'd like to see the next A7/8 be more complete upon launch so I could use it for awhile without feeling it was short on something needed, only to have the next one address it (like the A7R and A7R-II) ... thus forcing one into the sell/buy and learn a new camera mode every 1 to 2 years or so.

    Most Pro cameras are the flagship work-horses ... perhaps less profitable for the camera maker, but more their innovation and image leader.

    Like you, I'd like to see a larger/faster buffer.

    Last wedding with the A7R-II, I kept running into wait time to review my last shot. It was an accumulative issue with the buffer and clear time. Fast card didn't help.

    Definitely like to see a dual SD card ability in a pro spec A7-III/A8, even if the camera gets a wee bit bigger.

    SD cards make me nervous because they are harder to recover than CFs if corrupted. The Leica S and SL has dual card capacity, so did my Sony A99 and every Canon or Nikon I ever used for paying work. Dual cards saved me more than once.

    Some way to increase battery life ... either a more effective battery, or better power management of the camera ... ideally both. "Is that a pocket full of batteries, or are you just happy to see me?"

    One idea that occurred to me was a relatively thin 1/2" or 3/4" deep accessory bottom attachment (rather than the big grip) that just housed a long thin Lithium battery for extended use. That way, the camera itself need not get bigger all the time, just a little bigger when you need it. If Sony made this I'd buy two in a New York nano second.

    The biggest improvement IMO would address the interface, which in my experience is the absolute worst in the business.

    Sony defenders often brush this off, but it is the elephant in the room. Almost any pro work has stress attached to it, and the focus HAS to be on what is in front of the camera, and 12" behind it, NOT the camera's demanding ergonomics and interface. Darned Sonys are like a little kid constantly demanding attention from a busy parent.

    Speaking of a kid, Sony could hire a 6 year old who could design a better organized menu

    BTW, The Leica interface murders Sony.

    - Marc

    Oh, forgot to add addressing the lighting issues with Sony. Put a PC port on the camera please. Make a radio speed-light please. Get Profoto to make a TTL transmitter for Sony please.
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    You guys put a lot of emotions on this tool !

    When I compare with the SL it is only the simplicity, button layout. The SL feel more durable (by far) than the 7RmkII. I'm sure Sony can do the same and they will. If you follow what Sony engineers say, they want to make lenses who last forever (no marketing attended lol). I trust them when I see the last lenses, when I see the 90 macro.

    The 85f1.4 is a jewel.

    As a Nikon shooter here is my definition of "professional" : Military grade. Same in computer components. Military grade mean simple, straight forward, simple to use without any bells and whistles, extremely resilient so no flip flop screen. Less angular shape, less heterogeneity between the grip and the body, more mono-bloc. And yes, a little bigger battery but that's extra.

    Visually speaking, the new G master lenses melt perfectly with the SL body simplicity and not that much with the A7.

    Ho and do not tell me a "large amount of working pros" use the Sony system. I never seen yet a working pro with a Sony system, only 5 years ago in a meeting I seen someone with an A850 and that about all.

    A large amount of forumers yes, no doubts. Some working pros, yes, no doubt, but I never seen one yet and photography is my job. Maybe in US ?? ...
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    On the Nikon D5/500 thread lot of interesting stuff was spewed out.

    Hyulyss, Buy another D700 before that rare Japan made pro camera with OVF becomes unattainable.
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    You guys put a lot of emotions on this tool !

    Ho and do not tell me a "large amount of working pros" use the Sony system. I never seen yet a working pro with a Sony system...

    A large amount of forumers yes, no doubts. Some working pros, yes, no doubt, but I never seen one yet and photography is my job. Maybe in US ?? ...
    Jason Lanier would be one example.
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    I used to feel like I needed to defend Sony mirrorless cameras from the demeaning attacks/trolls when it felt like there only a few of us using them a couple of years ago before the A7 cameras.

    However I've stopped as I feel the images I see people produce from all the a7 series cameras do all of the talking needed.

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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    On the Nikon D5/500 thread lot of interesting stuff was spewed out.

    Hulyss, Buy another D700 before that rare Japan made pro camera with OVF becomes unattainable.
    The D5/D500 sensors are surprisingly good even without Sony tech And my D700 have been serviced so he is ok for many more years. I'm a working pro and there is a VERY good reason why I continue to use this camera.

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    Jason Lanier would be one example.
    I said working pro not Sony sponsored "artisan" "who travelled the world If only 2% of the working pros was able to travel the world ...

    Quote Originally Posted by Slingers View Post
    However I've stopped as I feel the images I see people produce from all the a7 series cameras do all of the talking needed.
    Yes you are right, the photographer make the photo, whatever the tool he use


    Ho and I'm using A7r with 24-70f4, 90 macro and so on... Can't say I'm a Sony hater.
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    funny not one person here that has a opposing view of Sony owns the new A7rII but basing there comments off the A7r.

    That speaks volumes. Now if we don't get back to the thread title immediately I'll close this thread. Truth be told I lost a lot of respect for some here when it's full of other brand loyalty. Frankly it's pretty sad. For the record I sold my Nikon stuff because I could not stand that piece of **** anymore but yet I have never said that in any Nikon forum, Sony forum or anywhere else. When I see these posts to me it's people running scared.

    Honestly I'm about to walk away from all this pathetic posturing for good. It's so sad a brand just can't speak for itself and its own merit.

    What's even more sad is to see what I helped start here with this forum turn into this stuff. Not sure what to say about that buts it's on every brand now.
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Truth be told I lost a lot of respect for some here when it's full of other brand loyalty.
    I added one more to the ignore list.

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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Keep calm Guy, you miss the subject. I do not bash Sony and I do not think anybody is (really) bashing Sony here. I would be the first to invest further in Sony, especially with the new lenses. I simply say that for 3500 $ I wait more in ruggedness and simplicity than the A7rII and I'm not aggressive nor alone.

    And I consider brand loyalty as a childish behaviour especially coming from ppl who have far more experience in photography than me.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Totally off-topic with regard to the lenses, but I had to get this off my chest.

    With all due respect to the people who use it I find this talk and use of the ignore list a bit over the top.

    I also know members here and on other fora who's opinions I respect more (or less) but even contrary opinions are useful to sharpen your own mind.
    There's no need to react to everything you don't agree with, and who knows, the next time a person you have on your ignore list posts something useful and you don't see it.
    I know very few people who are always wrong or always right.

    So putting people on your ignore list is in my mind is your own loss, and if certain posts are better ignored the scroll wheel is your best friend.



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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    First off don't ever tell me to be calm. I'm as calm a person as anyone and I am by far not a Sony fanboy at all. Far from it I'll sell a complete system on a dime if there is something better. Ask anyone here they have seen me do it admittedly far to often. What's pissing me off though is this thread is about new release lenses and no one is talking about that in this thread for at least 50 posts. Get back on topic. You like Nikon go post there , you like Leica go post there but I see very few if any Sony users go posting on there forums and ripping there product to shreds.

    That's my last comment on this thread.

    It's end now. Get back on topic
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    I am most likely to get the 85/1.4 GM. The size would be fine for a portrait lens.

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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    what i wonder is if better and sharper lenses with more contrast wide open also improve af accuracy with the a7 cameras ? i have not done a test
    but i do shoot the canon 70-200 2,8 II side by side with the sony 70-200 a lot and i got the impression that the canon zoom via metabones is slower but more accurate than
    the sony lens especially at the long end.

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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    HB you have you right to your opinion as we do ours but we don't go over to your house to tell you our opinions what make you think it is ok to come over and dump yours in our house. I aways was taught to be courteous and respectful when visiting someone else's home.

    Do you think by telling us we are childish for defending our tools we are going to be receptive to anything you say or your opinions?

    If you are only going to come to the Sony forum to state these type opinions my opinion is don't go away angry just go away..... Use whatever you or the others who come here for the same purpose want to use and I personally hope Sony never makes what you guys want and you buy it and come here permanently. We don't need the attitudes! There is a segment of people in photography who have themselves held so high up above the rest that they actually believe their own bs and think others care what their opinions are.... We don't!!!! Keep the negative crap to yourselves and we will enjoy what we decide to use without anyone else's assistance. I have been tripping shutters since the early 60's I don't need anyone's opinion on what feels right for me to use.

    If you or the others don't like something or anything about a Sony product then please don't buy it... That is the only opinion that matters. We really don't care why you don't and care less to hear your reasonings as to why. The only opinion that matters is what a individual decides is best for them to use and we state that with our wallets. How about respecting that when in our house?
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by CSP View Post
    what i wonder is if better and sharper lenses with more contrast wide open also improve af accuracy with the a7 cameras ? i have not done a test
    but i do shoot the canon 70-200 2,8 II side by side with the sony 70-200 a lot and i got the impression that the canon zoom via metabones is slower but more accurate than
    the sony lens especially at the long end.
    I would think only to an extent.

    The newer techs in the newer cams improve the AF (speed and accuracy) enormously.

    You can see the progression all the way from NEX-5.

  25. #225
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Houses ? What the hell are you talking about ? I love what Sony did with the last lenses, a strong signal for the future. I just ask Sony to make a more "professional grade" camera in the future to go with this new philosophy. There is no wrong or right this is just a wish. I'm not bashing or over reacting or whatever.

    "We want to make lenses that can be used forever"
    Motoyuji Ohtake, Distinguished Engineer, Opto Design Department, Core Technology Division, Digital Imaging Business Group at Sony.
    Now I'm sure they plan to make a more rugged body, a sort of mirror-less A900 with XQD cards, whatever.

    Wishing or comparing with other brands isn't bashing.

    Last edited by Hulyss Bowman; 8th February 2016 at 06:36.
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    It is a little difficult to discern Sony's intentions here. Does the development of these new lenses and E-mount high resolution cameras indicate that is Sony intended direction, or is there life in the A-Mount?

    It seems that the new G Master lenses, but in A mount, could work just as well on a future A mount camera and they may have been developed with that option in mind. They may have been released in E-mount first because there is not a suitable high resolution A mount camera available - yet.

    Whatever, its a long time since I was this excited about a few new lenses.
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by CSP View Post
    what i wonder is if better and sharper lenses with more contrast wide open also improve af accuracy with the a7 cameras ? i have not done a test
    but i do shoot the canon 70-200 2,8 II side by side with the sony 70-200 a lot and i got the impression that the canon zoom via metabones is slower but more accurate than
    the sony lens especially at the long end.
    I too have tried my Canon 70-200 f4 with metabones on the A7RII. It is pathetically slow and would just never work for me for wildlife use - which is the only time I would use that lens. I have heard that Sony's own version is not that sharp and of course it weighs the same as Canon (minus the adapter). So will wait to see what the new 2.8 version is like. Would still not buy it unless the future upgrade to the A7RII is also capable.

    The one other thing that is being lost in all the whining - Sony has shown with the release of the 70-200 2.8 that it is willing to switch gears and develop long lenses with fast apertures for the FE mount, so there HAS to be an upcoming robust camera body that can directly compete with Canon and Nikon. Which then means that there will also be other long lenses beyond 200mm in the future.

    Sadly, it also means that for those hopeful of an A99 upgrade, it may not happen - but you never know with Sony

    @Quentin: Sorry, just saw your post. Yes, maybe there will be A mount versions of the newer lenses, but I have a feeling Sony is going for something else altogether.
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by Quentin_Bargate View Post
    It is a little difficult to discern Sony's intentions here. Does the development of these new lenses and E-mount high resolution cameras indicate that is Sony intended direction, or is there life in the A-Mount?

    It seems that the new G Master lenses, but in A mount, could work just as well on a future A mount camera and they may have been developed with that option in mind. They may have been released in E-mount first because there is not a suitable high resolution A mount camera available - yet.

    Whatever, its a long time since I was this excited about a few new lenses.
    Same here, I'm jealous. Those 3 lenses are just right. I do not know if Sony released any A mount lenses in the past few months or years. They did the LA-EA4 they might do the same for FE lenses on alpha body, an adaptor FE>>A mount.

    I seriously doubt they will make those lenses in A mount but I might be wrong.

    Like you Pradeep I'm pretty sure longer lenses for FE mount will see the light.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com

  29. #229
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    The A mount is dead IMHO. My last try for A mount was more than 2 years ago and luckily I resisted to buy some used Sony/Zeiss glass. No camera followed since the A99 (+4 years old ????) and I would wonder really if they continue this mount now.
    Last edited by ptomsu; 8th February 2016 at 12:19.

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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Maybe there's room for smaller lenses offering "classic" performance, kind of like the Zeiss ZM series. G Master seems more like Sony's answer to Zeiss Otus: I like having these sorts of options!

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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by Hulyss Bowman View Post
    Same here, I'm jealous. Those 3 lenses are just right. I do not know if Sony released any A mount lenses in the past few months or years. They did the LA-EA4 they might do the same for FE lenses on alpha body, an adaptor FE>>A mount.

    I seriously doubt they will make those lenses in A mount but I might be wrong.

    Like you Pradeep I'm pretty sure longer lenses for FE mount will see the light.
    You can't adapt a lens made for a shorter flange distance to a body made for a longer flange : you need to take something away, you can't add something. It can only go in one direction : A-Mount adapted to FE mount, but not the other way.

    For the same reason (flange distance), I'm not sure that Sony can use the same design for an A-mount lenses, as Quentin Bargate wrote; they could use similar new technologies however in order to improve their actual lenses line.
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by 4season View Post
    Maybe there's room for smaller lenses offering "classic" performance, kind of like the Zeiss ZM series. G Master seems more like Sony's answer to Zeiss Otus: I like having these sorts of options!
    Otii will not AF with any cameras they are made for. Manual focus with those DSLRs is no small feat. Practically useless.

    So, no comparison at all.

  33. #233
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by GrahamWelland View Post
    I still don't get it.

    So the 24-70/4 isn't up to the expectations set by other lenses like the 16-35 or 70-200 or 90 macro. Well, it isn't unknown for companies to eventually update existing lenses with new formulations and designs. Heck even the dinosaurs such as Canon, Leica, Nikon or even Phase One/Mamiya or Rodenstock have a few perceived "dogs" in their lens line ups and eventually update/replace them. Now it must be said that historically that replacement takes place at a glacial rate, about a decade or longer if lenses like the Nikon 24-70/2.8 or 70-200/2.8 or Leica 50 Noctilux or 35 Summilux are anything to go by.

    Of course if Sony did replace one the current f/4 lenses then I'm sure that there would be people up in arms complaining that their current lenses have now become paper weights and their residual value on the secondhand market gutted etc etc. Such is the nature of Internet forums I guess.

    What's not to get? My needs are different from the needs of those that want big and heavy fast lenses. I am unhappy that Sony appears to be segmenting its lens line into (1) big and heavy fast lenses that are expensive and optically the best that Sony is capable of producing and (2) smaller and lighter and slower lenses that are relatively cheap and mediocre. My preference is for smaller, lighter, slower lenses that are optically the best that can be produced and priced accordingly. I don't think I am unique. I think there are large numbers of photographers that bought into the Sony A7 series of cameras based upon the concept of exceptional image quality in a compact form factor. This is not "whining."
    Sure, Sony may someday update the 24-70 f/4, but I suspect that it will be positioned at a price point and performance level well below the 2.8 version. There is no apparent reason why a 24-70mm f/4 zoom can't be small, light and at least the optical equal of the 24-70mm f/2.8 zoom. It all comes down to.....money. The prevailing market wisdom among Canon, Nikon and Sony is that the people with the money to buy the best lenses are fixated on fast lenses. They should do some more market research. Give a group of photographers who would be serious potential buyers of these zoom lenses two lenses that both cost $2500 and one is the size of the existing 24-70 f/4 FE zoom and the other the size of the new G Master f/2.8. Tell them the two lenses are both exceptional, truly world class from an optical standpoint. They are equal in quality. Then ask, which would you buy?
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  34. #234
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    As a Sony "early adopter" I feel entitled to critique their offerings in the hopes it institutes change ... not to hurt anyone's enthusiasm for the brand, including my own.

    I had one of the first A900s in the US, bought a second one and a slew of ZA lenses (8 to be exact); worked with a NEX5 and an APSc A mount DSLR, worked with an A99 for years, then a A7R, and now an A7R-II.

    Of all the shoots I've been on where there were other pros, or shoots I supervised as an art director (100s), I have been the only one using Sony. That's fine with me. So what? Pros are rarely bleeding edge, and are more pragmatic regarding system swaps.

    I must say it is disconcerting to hear the A mount is presumed dead. It isn't that old to be killed off.

    IMO, Sony NEEDs critical feedback ... and not just by avoiding buying their products.

    How well these new lenses match up to the marketing remains to be seen, but I'm sure they'll be good. Only then will the apparent value proposition reveal itself. If they are anything close to top Zeiss or Leica optics then it'll be a bargain. While these are FE mount, I suspect they are intended for a camera we have yet to hear a whisper about. I believe it will be their image leader. Not quite as small as the current A cameras, but not as big as current high performance DSLRs.

    Yet, I think it is legitimate to wish for smaller AF FE lenses with excellent image qualities (and long term build quality) to use on the A7 cameras including the A7R-II. Maybe the Batis are that ... if you can get them.

    Oh well ...

    - marc
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  35. #235
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    I wonder why this new 85GM doesn't have OSS. To me it's right at the start of the range where you need it. Then when you start to use it in crop mode or even going further in video using the clear zoom it would have been a useful feature for me.

    I suspect from the few samples it has a different colour signature than the Zeiss primes we have. So I'm interested to see it compared against the batis to be able to make a judgement.

  36. #236
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I am most likely to get the 85/1.4 GM. The size would be fine for a portrait lens.


    I agree, though I feel the IQ on this needs to be better then the Batis, which is a tough task, as IQ can be subjective to many of us, however, if the 85mm f/1.4 is noticeably worse then the Batis in IQ, then why would one buy it?

    Its always exciting getting a new lens, and shooting with it, I have mostly been a wide angle person, so short telephoto and telephoto will be somewhat new to me and fun.
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  37. #237
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    Totally off-topic with regard to the lenses, but I had to get this off my chest.

    With all due respect to the people who use it I find this talk and use of the ignore list a bit over the top.

    I also know members here and on other fora who's opinions I respect more (or less) but even contrary opinions are useful to sharpen your own mind.
    There's no need to react to everything you don't agree with, and who knows, the next time a person you have on your ignore list posts something useful and you don't see it.
    I know very few people who are always wrong or always right.

    So putting people on your ignore list is in my mind is your own loss, and if certain posts are better ignored the scroll wheel is your best friend.



    I hope I don't step on too many toes with this post

    You make a god point daddy-o, I haven't blocked/ignored anybody, but I must say it gets very old to hear the same old dribble ad nauseam, over and over, some of these folks always have to try and get in the last word, and try and look like angels doing it. I really enjoy this forum, and when somebody tries to take that joy away because they cant help but open their trap over and over, I can see why some folks will just block them. Maybe it is better to block somebody then to get into a online argument.

    I come here to enjoy the images, enjoy the discussion, enjoy the talented people, I don't come here to worry about how I will respond to somebody who doesn't know when to shut up.
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  38. #238
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucille View Post
    I agree, though I feel the IQ on this needs to be better then the Batis, which is a tough task, as IQ can be subjective to many of us, however, if the 85mm f/1.4 is noticeably worse then the Batis in IQ, then why would one buy it?

    Onion rings (Batis) vs smooth OOF bokeh highlights (GM) is one big factor for me.

    BTW, the Otus 85 also shows onion rings.
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  39. #239
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Onion rings (Batis) vs smooth OOF bokeh highlights (GM) is one big factor for me.

    BTW, the Otus 85 also shows onion rings.
    My 25 and 85 Batis' came with a burger and a shake for the sweet Vidalia onion rings...
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  40. #240
    Senior Member 4season's Avatar
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    Otii will not AF with any cameras they are made for. Manual focus with those DSLRs is no small feat. Practically useless.

    So, no comparison at all.
    So we're already ahead!!
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  41. #241
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by Slingers View Post
    I wonder why this new 85GM doesn't have OSS. To me it's right at the start of the range where you need it. Then when you start to use it in crop mode or even going further in video using the clear zoom it would have been a useful feature for me.

    I suspect from the few samples it has a different colour signature than the Zeiss primes we have. So I'm interested to see it compared against the batis to be able to make a judgement.
    A7rm2 has IBIS and at that focal length IBIS is perfectly able to stabilize the lens. Longer lenses are another story. The 90mm is a macro lens and thus needs a more perfect stabilization. At least, that is the rationalization I can find.
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  42. #242
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by Annna T View Post
    A7rm2 has IBIS and at that focal length IBIS is perfectly able to stabilize the lens. Longer lenses are another story. The 90mm is a macro lens and thus needs a more perfect stabilization. At least, that is the rationalization I can find.
    Well, the FE 90/2.8 MACRO G OSS lens is great to use on an A7r that doesn't have IBIS!
    Of course, nevertheless that's at a disadvantage relative to IBIS for macro shots.
    Here the IBIS X- and Y-image stabilization corrections can matter a lot while they vanish for infinity focus.
    That's why these two corrections also require focus distance in addition to focal length information.
    OSS applies only pitch and yaw stabilization. IBIS also applies roll stabilization.
    For roll stabilization neither focal length nor focus distance information is required.
    With best regards, K-H.

  43. #243
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Update on the 70-200/2.8: Sony Japan says the 70-200mm F2.8 FE GM lens will ship in June | SAR

    Dutch site Fotobooms says the price of the lens is €1979.
    Bart ...

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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Bart, the price is gone.

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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Sounds right Vivek as I see B&H says price to be announced.

  46. #246
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    FE 85/1.4 GM vs Batis FE 85/1.8, First impressions.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B6IlnuS3UAY

    I definitely prefer the bokeh of the GM lens.
    Its larger weight and size don't bother me!
    With best regards, K-H.

  47. #247
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    K-H thanks but I think it is a waste of time (watching the youtube frm this guy) too much with very little information.
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  48. #248
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    K-H thanks but I think it is a waste of time (watching the youtube frm this guy) too much with very little information.
    Thanks Vivek. Yup. Agreed.
    However, I found the couple of seconds where he compared the bokehs worth suffering through the rest.
    YMMV.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    K-H thanks but I think it is a waste of time (watching the youtube frm this guy) too much with very little information.
    Thanks Vivek. Yup. Agreed.
    However, I found the couple of seconds where he compared the bokehs worth suffering through the rest.
    YMMV.
    With best regards, K-H.
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    Of these three the 85/1.4 and the 70-200 + 2x extender interest me most. I really need to see more of the 85 before I give up my 85 Batis. So far I haven't seen anything from it that can't be done with the Batis but the test shots were probably jpeg without critical focusing.
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  50. #250
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    Re: G Master lenses - 24-70mm f/2.8, 85mm f/1.4 & 70-200mm f/2.8

    I would have liked to see similar portrait shots taken with the two lenses to see how each renders OOF and transitions in similar light.

    Specular highlight bokeh can be deceiving and tricky to evaluate depending on circumstances.

    I do not think it was a waste of time because it showed just how big the 85mm G lenses is in relationship to the Batis on the Sony A cameras, and he did deal with the smoother ergonomics of the Batis, which I've wondered about myself.

    IMO, he should skip the "impartial" disclaimers since it is pretty hard to believe coming from someone designated a "Sony Artisan Of Imagery"

    - Marc
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