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Thread: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

  1. #1
    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    https://luminous-landscape.com/impor...ous-landscape/

    Will you pay one dollar per month?

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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Yes, with pleasure. I don't read LuLa all that often at present, but whenever I do it is informative and enjoyable. It's a good idea to keep such things in operation.

    G

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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    In the past I have found useful information on the Luminous Site so I don't mind paying $1 per month.

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    Senior Member bradhusick's Avatar
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    This is more than worth it since they will be including all their videos.
    Brad Husick
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Interesting for sure. I do understand the cost issue and trust me I have not seen a check in years it seems here. That's not a joke either.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    No problem with that. LL is a valuable source of information. The amount is also so modest that it's affordable even on a third world salary
    Things I sell: https://www.shutterstock.com/g/epixx?language=en
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    No.

    If a voluntary support is requested, if I am an user, I would.

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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    with 30,000 active members claimed by LL, that is not a bad cash flow and the tithe per member is peanuts.

    i suggest this site do the same thing

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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post

    i suggest this site do the same thing
    Terrible advice! Good luck!

    It will be interesting to see how many of the so called active 30,000 plus members will still be active.

    What are they selling? User contributed contents are being peddled along with the reviews/videos from the owners?

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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    I would pay to view that site.

    As I would also pay to view GetDPI.

    The price is very reasonable. People have become used to freebies. They start thinking that somehow it is their right to have good sites free of charge.It costs time and money to run, moderate and maintain a good site. Free loaders are a plenty.
    koffee & kamera
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    $1/month for the privilege to get spammed.

    We will also be regularly making special offers available from various companies exclusively to members. Often just one of these discount offers will cover the cost of your annual subscription.
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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    I think it's a very clever move - get the membership into the 10's of thousands and then charge a negligible subscription fee... Especially when you have some decent materials (training videos) which you can throw in to entice the membership.

    I would certainly pay that for the Ming Thein blog, especially if the training materials (which aren't selling in enough numbers to generate regular revenue) were included.

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Senior Member Brian Mosley's Avatar
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    $1/month for the privilege to get spammed.
    Or worse! Subscription details would be a juicy target for hackers. You'd need to have industrial strength security to manage this.

    Cheers

    Brian

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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Quote Originally Posted by rayyan View Post
    I would pay to view that site.

    As I would also pay to view GetDPI.

    The price is very reasonable. People have become used to freebies. They start thinking that somehow it is their right to have good sites free of charge.It costs time and money to run, moderate and maintain a good site. Free loaders are a plenty.
    +1

    I'd rather pay a small tithe for useful information and conversation than have a site beladen with advertising garbage like photo.net.

    G
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Interesting development. $12 per year is very good value indeed if you like the website but I wouldn't be surprised if the owners have grossly overestimated the number of people likely to cough up. IMO the content isn't compelling enough to bother with the (even very minor) hassle of going through the subscription process, irrespective of the cost. I can imagine a reasonable proportion of the few hundred forum regulars there will subscribe but can't see many others doing so.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    I'm a little gun shy on the second part of it with selling the members email to preferred vendors to offer you deals. I'm not saying that because I have a interest here in Get.DPI

    My problem is the unwanted emails that get to about 75 a day now. Owning guymancusophotography I get spammed so much I can't tell you. The money is not the problem, sealing off the forum off from the public can be a big issue though, you don't get fresh people but I'm not sure how they will do that end of it.

    I would like to see us do it for the much needed revenue but I refuse to offer emails out to vendors on our members. It's not my call though
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Quote Originally Posted by wattsy View Post
    Interesting development. $12 per year is very good value indeed if you like the website but I wouldn't be surprised if the owners have grossly overestimated the number of people likely to cough up. IMO the content isn't compelling enough to bother with the (even very minor) hassle of going through the subscription process, irrespective of the cost. I can imagine a reasonable proportion of the few hundred forum regulars there will subscribe but can't see many others doing so.
    Well said!

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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    quite a few sites allow reading, maybe not seeing images, for no registration (paid or non-paid); once you sign (maybe pay the subscription) you get full privileges, can post, see image content, search, B/S, etc.

    offers a way for casual viewers/potential subscribers to get sucked in

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Kevin Raber is a businessman first and a photographer second LOL. I think it's a good idea and a smart move for them. And it will be interesting to see how they fare.

    Like Guy alluded too, there isn't a lot of money in running a photo-forum site. We just about break even on the costs of running and maintaing this site from our paid advertisers. We get a teeny bit from the Amazon and B&H links that makes up the rest, but since we updated the software and those two links only being on the first page, our click payments from them have decreased significantly. (Bob, look into that! LOL) Other revenue is a handful of you are regularly generous with the donate button and we do appreciate that as it all helps.

    I have no doubt our regular usership would be willing to pay $1/month to support us and their passion. The issue becomes attracting and keeping new passionate and active users -- sometimes a membership fee can be a barrier to that.

    Regardless, I applaud LuLa management and wish them a lot of success with this new move!
    Jack
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    "Perfection is not attainable. But if we chase perfection, we can catch excellence."

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    Senior Member Joe Colson's Avatar
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Quote Originally Posted by DougDolde View Post
    Maybe not. I have been a LuLa user since early days, and was a subscriber to the LuLa DVD series for years. As the site has aged, the content from Michael and Kevin has become rather shallow. The product "reviews" are especially disappointing, and in-depth expert reviews are readily available free elsewhere on the Web. The forums are stale, with few new posts daily. And the For Sale forum rarely sparks any interest compared to GetDPI and Fred Miranda. Can I live without it? Yes. Is it worth $1 per month to continue to use it. Maybe. At I write this, there are 63 "users" and 212 "guests" on LuLa. Most of those "guests" who are browsing without becoming a free member will go away when the paid site launches. I predict that many of the current "users" will disappear as well. Too bad. I'm disappointed that the owners couldn't continue to make a go of it as a free site.

    Joe
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Kevin Raber is a businessman first and a photographer second LOL. I think it's a good idea and a smart move for them. And it will be interesting to see how they fare.

    Like Guy alluded too, there isn't a lot of money in running a photo-forum site. We just about break even on the costs of running and maintaing this site from our paid advertisers. We get a teeny bit from the Amazon and B&H links that makes up the rest, but since we updated the software and those two links only being on the first page, our click payments from them have decreased significantly. (Bob, look into that! LOL) Other revenue is a handful of you are regularly generous with the donate button and we do appreciate that as it all helps.

    I have no doubt our regular usership would be willing to pay $1/month to support us and their passion. The issue becomes attracting and keeping new passionate and active users -- sometimes a membership fee can be a barrier to that.

    Regardless, I applaud LuLa management and wish them a lot of success with this new move!
    I would love to do it in a way but I don't want to see us selling out to venders with people's email. If we can avoid that Jack I'm all in. It would help us but again we want to attract new users as well. Maybe free for 2 months kind of thing. Something we can talk about

    I agree Kevin is there to generate money first and foremost. Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Senior Member Hulyss Bowman's Avatar
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    I find this change over LL to be pretty lame, sorry.

    For the ones saying that we still find valuables infos on LL, it is probably true for a some "late guys on internet" but LL ISN'T anymore what it used to be some years ago. The forum isn't that active and you see always the same usual suspects over and over again. As the date of today LuLa forum is a utter boring place. The front page is cool because of the articles and funny videos but that's all.

    I respect what did MR and KR over the years but I can't cope with the fact of monetizing even the forum; this sound like just a bold capitalist move and Imho it is just not compatible with what is, deeply, photography.

    I own my own domain and can run a forum tomorrow and find some "free" moderators and it wont cost me more than what I already pay to my host every years : 70 Euros / unlimited traffic.

    America, country of Freedom ... if you pay.

    Thanks but no.

    I hope that GDPI will never be fee based, ever !! It will be a major error attracting only a portion of the actual user base. Lula will run into some surprises even with their video bait... no need to be out of Harvard to smell it at 5 miles.

    After all, Ken Rockwell rule them all, and even if it is opinionated, ken Rockwell is free.
    Kind regards - Hulyss - hulyssbowman.com
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    I like Ken.
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    Senior Member JohnW's Avatar
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    .... I have no doubt our regular usership would be willing to pay $1/month to support us and their passion....
    Why would I pay $1.00 a month to have my opinions ignored? I get that at home for free.
    web site | tumblr
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    I'm currently on the fence about this for several reasons...

    I've grown tired of the bitchy infighting "mines better than yours" and if you disagree then you're stupid mentality that crops up more often than not. What I see there recently is internet bullying that most wouldn't do or say to someone's face. I've gotten rather tired of reading passive aggressive sales pitches with some responses. Added to this list is the constant threads where people feel the need to demonstrate how one camera is better than another when both are equally good yet nether is 100% (hope that makes some sense). Comparing different types of gear then bashing the company they didn't like to begin with got old a long time ago when I could read the bullshit for free. And now I'd have to pay for the same pleasure? For these reason and more I've stopped visiting LuLu as much as I had in the past. while I visit here at least one a day and sometimes several, I seem to only go there one a week if that.

    I came here not because it was free. I came here as I felt there is a better class of folks here discussing things that matter. This site remains like a family where there's an occasional squabble and tempers flare however the adults quickly take care of it and balance is restored.

    I also believe that if you are going to charge a fee for something then made it worth your while. One dollar a month seems to me way too cheap when you consider the return is around .97 cents after charges are taken out. Is this what they really think their site is worth? I charge what I believe is a fair price for my work and there's no way I'd ever think to stoop so low as to offer my work for a buck.

    All this said what I'd recommend is that if you have a buy/sell section (LuLu and we have it) then charge a fee there. why is it that we and LuLu have folks sign up only to sell something and never make any contribution to on going discussions?

    Getting off my soap box and back to work.

    Don
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Does anyone know if MR has sold the site?

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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    What Don said. I rarely read any of the original content on LuLa, but sometimes read their MF forum, and it's troll central. The same posters* say the same things over and over.

    Charging a membership fee will free me from that sad habit.

    *Sadly, some of them post here as well.

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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Why would I pay $1.00 a month to have my opinions ignored? I get that at home for free.
    OMG how true. Like we need more abuse in our life. Best comment on this forum ever. We should all send you a dollar
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    OMG how true. Like we need more abuse in our life. Best comment on this forum ever. We should all send you a dollar
    I say we ignore him and make him feel at home
    Don Libby
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    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Ignore whom?
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    I've never participated in the LuLa forums.

    I go there for occasional reference and training material, and occasionally enjoy reading the equipment reviews posted too. $12/year is a reasonable price to pay for that occasional use, to me.

    At least the LuLa site presents its materials in a readable, useful fashion, unlike another site I will not name that costs three times as much and has no access at all if you haven't paid a fee.

    G
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    Administrator, Instructor Guy Mancuso's Avatar
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    Ignore whom?
    Lol
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

    www.guymancusophotography.com

  33. #33
    Senior Member stephengilbert's Avatar
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    So much for that kerfluffle. From Kevin Raber:

    Thank you for you comments. Michael, Chris and I have been following the topic all day. We have heard you and we will keep the forum as a FREE portion of the Luminous-Landscape site. The rest of the site will be part of the membership site. The exception is the For Sale topic. If you wish to post there you will need to be a member. Thanks for the feedback.

  34. #34
    Senior Member Joe Colson's Avatar
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    ...The exception is the For Sale topic. If you wish to post there you will need to be a member.
    And Fred Miranda is smiling.

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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    I'm pretty much in agreement with Don Libby. Years ago I regarded LL as a prime source of information, but it seems to have become much less relevant and interesting. I see more workshop promotion, less original work (just the same amateur landscape styles over and over), and questionable reviews (starting with MR's failure to mention the IR problems he'd noticed when testing the M8). The person Michael chose as his partner doesn't seem to be a very good or very knowledgeable photographer.

    At the same time this site has grown more relevant to my interests.

    Having drifted away from LL as a free site, I don't see a reason to make a commitment – it's as if they reminded me to stop looking there.

    Kirk
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  36. #36
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    I am not going to pay for LL It has lost its luster> Kevin Raber might be a nice guy but articles lack and Michael it sems since his cancer scare has really pulled back. I hope he is well and wish him the best. But his article rate has really decreased. The others there Sean Reid writes promos for his site and quite frankly his taste in lenses suck so no interest there. Alain Briot is a good photographer but I do not care for his writing. So no way it is a bummer for quite a few years it was my favorite site but no longer. PS buy and sell at LL is probably the worst place to ry and sell gear.
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Quote Originally Posted by Vivek View Post
    I like Ken.
    Had Ken produced that stuff in the 70's you'd find wall graffiti saying 'Ken is God'. I like him too, there's not a word irony in it. Straight to the point and in your face. Like you and I, he could have been a Dutch. He probably is.

  38. #38
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Interesting for sure. I do understand the cost issue and trust me I have not seen a check in years it seems here. That's not a joke either.
    Well, I have just sent my $dollar. Hey other forum members, how about support getDPI, I have.
    May not be every month though!

    Thing is, from AU with the exchange rate its more like AU$1.40.

  39. #39
    Senior Member Tim's Avatar
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Libby View Post
    I came here not because it was free. I came here as I felt there is a better class of folks here discussing things that matter. This site remains like a family where there's an occasional squabble and tempers flare however the adults quickly take care of it and balance is restored.
    Don
    This has been my experience here also. As you say there is the occasional flare up but I find for each section and brand of camera here there is acceptance for them as a tool without the need for troll behavior. I've been to couple of forums (not LULA) where even a moderator is a troll.

    I wonder if trolls will pay $1 to be able to keep trolling?

    I kind of think if being negative about some gear its key to say IMO, or "for my use", but to acknowledge that it may be fine for someone else. No blanket statements.

  40. #40
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    2008, I'd just gotten interested in photography, and started reading ...
    OCTOBER
    MR claims that the then newly announced Canon G10 14.7mpx **compact camera** could produce photo files that even when printed at 13x19" and viewed side-by-side on a photo-viewing stand with like prints from a $40k Hasselblad w/Phase One 39mpx back could not be distinguished by a collection of experienced-w/photography viewers ("over 200 years of ...") --they were equally good! To my surprise, this article & claim got widely echoed in the WWWeb, but nowhere much at all challenged!?
    "You've Got to be Kidding!", indeed!!

    Though it stands in stark contrast to another LuLa front page article, by business associate ("part owner"?) Mark Dubovoy, just over a year later (2010-March) --six years ago--, in which MD asserted that medium-format gear was so superior to lesser gear --delivering "6-7 stops more DR than even top-end DSLRs"-- it yields results that can be distinguished "even in small prints [8x10"] at 30 feet" !!! Now, this drew heavy critical fire from site members, but MR defended MD and only slightly mitigated this outrageous claim to being "a bit of editorial hyperbole."

    These "front-page"/lead articles are now among things to be paid for, per the new site; I don't expect to be doing so. Others may question their value.

    It is interesting to consider Canon's treatment : whether they had produced in the G10 such an incredible camera might be debated, but in furthering their usually annually upgraded G Series, the G11 & G12 both got (mere) 10mpx sensors, and even a few years later, the G15 & G16 had but 12mpx --like the G9, six years prior. (Meanwhile, Panasonic's LX-3/5/7 held to 10mpx, with the larger-sensor'd LX100 now at about 13mpx for 4:3 framing. --none has been heralded as rivaling Med.Format, though. Nor, we might note, were any of the myriad other vastly cheaper than MedFormat cameras extolled for similar performance, though they continue to be sold in the face of the G10 & its successors.)

    These articles rose to my attention as I'd just thought to explore photography and had gotten a D40 in the summer of 2008, and the LX3 in March '09; so I was intrigued by the claims of such capability in an affordable small camera. And in general, curious about it all. I came back to the article (re G10 vs. H2w/P45+ back) occasionally, and each time I found something else that challenges comprehension : I now think, sadly, that it was much a fraud --i.e., that no such comparison & assessment by "experts" was made; that, for whatever reason --to snag "eyeballs" or appease Canon-- the article was fabricated. Yes, that is a serious charge, but one I've come to, bit by bit --so much just doesn't add up. And then comes that quick discrimination at 30 feet, and there I'm far from alone in disbelief!

    So, I gotta muse about how these things would've been received had folks been PAYING for such wisdoms !!

    Meanwhile, I do like to read various poster's comments, and i.p. those by fashion & lifestyle pro James Russell (despite my lack of interest in --even disdain for-- fashion). His reports of life in the trenches of that work often strike a contrast to the ravings & rantings of those eyeing gear-spec sheets and 100% crops.
    --to wit:
    [Apparently he got into some thread with Nikon D8xx folks
    debating the supposed significance of their mpx ]
    I glanced at this thread and got a laugh.

    You d800 boys have been chewing on peeps that own cameras other than a d800 Nikon for like . . . ever. Now that you've run everybody off with dr, dxo, charts, and mine is bigger than yours stuff, you've turned on each other.

    Like those guys stranded in the mountains and run out of food. You start looking at your buddy's ankle and sees a BBQ sandwich.
    This is good for a whoop!
    (-;

    And further about the gear competitions :

    You're right, but you gotta see the humor in this.

    I mean it's gone to one guy who charges for seminars slapping around another guy for not processing out the same file in two convertors to "prove" his assertion. And he wants him to do it for free.
    It's funny and makes me believe there just isn't that much difference between these electronic boxes . . . not in the real world.* *

    I believed for a long time that C-1 processed out DSLR files better than Lightroom, even went so far as to buy our retouchers C-1 liscense.

    They never used them as most professional retouchers process out everything in Photoshop, then get to work.
    They don't care if it's a Canon or Nikon or a Leica.* They chuckle at photographers that are obsessed with "ultimate image quality", 'cause they know with digital serious post production is done in Photoshop.

    IMO
    BC [JR's posting name, "BCooter"]
    I think that James's stated opinion that he wasn't keen to have LuLa charging for access to forums on which he et al. made voluntary contributions was a strong incentive for the initial plan to be changed to leave the forum(s) open.

    -d.
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  41. #41
    Subscriber Member Georg Baumann's Avatar
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Quote Originally Posted by drofnad View Post
    And in general, curious about it all. I came back to the article (re G10 vs. H2w/P45+ back) occasionally, and each time I found something else that challenges comprehension : I now think, sadly, that it was much a fraud --i.e., that no such comparison & assessment by "experts" was made; that, for whatever reason --to snag "eyeballs" or appease Canon-- the article was fabricated. Yes, that is a serious charge, but one I've come to, bit by bit --so much just doesn't add up. And then comes that quick discrimination at 30 feet, and there I'm far from alone in disbelief!
    Hi,

    I don't want to get into a in depth discussion about that. However, I want to correct your statement.

    Coincidently, I was there in this very week in 2008, and sat in his studio beside him when we compared various prints from the G10 and the Hassy for hours, as did other photographers.

    Bottom line, the printouts were so close, that many did not find out at a glance what was form Hasselblad and what from the G10. If you knew what to look for, of course, but even then, you were hard pressed to believe that this came from the G10 and the other print from the equivalent of a middle class car at this time.

    There was no fraud involved. Period.

  42. #42
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    Re: Luminous Landscape going pay-to-view next month

    Quote Originally Posted by Georg Baumann View Post
    Hi,
    Coincidently, I was there in this very week in 2008, and sat in his studio beside him when we compared various prints from the G10 and the Hassy for hours, as did other photographers.

    Bottom line, the printouts were so close, that many did not find out at a glance what was form Hasselblad and what from the G10. If you knew what to look for, of course, but even then, you were hard pressed to believe that this came from the G10 and the other print from the equivalent of a middle class car at this time.

    There was no fraud involved. Period.
    Thanks for the info, George.

    Seems that also Quentin was also there, and yes compared prints.

    Can you further enlighten us :: HOW was this comparison done? (*test method*)

    What was meant by the article's "viewed side by side on my viewing stand",
    and
    how was the scoring made to support "no one got more than 60% right"?

    My first thought was that there would be like scenes photographed by each camera, which implies a multiple-of-two total.
    IIRC, he wrote that most viewers were only told that prints came from two cameras and that they should try to separate them into respective collections A & B, for which a perfect score would be all of one's output --either one-- in box A, the other's in box B. And the worst case would be an even mixing of prints, which if from an odd number of pairs --if indeed prints were paired-- would be something like 4 & 3 vs. 3 & 4 in the two boxes (and how does one grade that; can one do as badly as 50%!?).

    I can understand your not wanting a long discussion; but when one goes from reading of tasked viewing of 13x19" prints on a viewing stand between a MF & compact camera being indistinguishable to the later article's assertion of ready discrimination at 30 feet of "small" (say 8x10) prints between MF & top 35mm camera, there is way too much to swallow. (And there were some other statements quite at odds in other discussion.)

    -d.

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