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Thread: Olympus sells its imaging business

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    Subscriber Member Jorgen Udvang's Avatar
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    Olympus sells its imaging business

    https://www.43rumors.com/it-happened...siness-to-jip/

    Officially, JIP and Panasonic will continue developing MFT. My guess is that it will become a much more niche product than before, with strong emphasis on video where the small sensor has its strength. If I were to buy a small camera mainly for photography today and didn't have any investment in MFT, I would clearly have chosen a Nikon Z50, a Canon M50 or one of the Fuji models. Nikon in particular has shown with the Z50 what can be achieved with a small, ergonomically sound body and compact, reasonably priced lenses.

    Not the death of MFT, and I'm not selling my gear, but the focus will change.

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Yup, you beat me to it. Personal View (Russian website) was right or part right at least.

    People who believed Olympus' PR releases need to re-evaluate how much they want to trust the PR of companies in general, particularly those with track records of not so great in the past, moving forward.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    I have to say this could mark the beginning of the end of m43rds, or at least Pentax-status. But Pentax-status isn't too horrible actually.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Here's some of the reason for it:



    The combo to the left costs $2,494 and weighs 1,155 grams
    The combo to the right costs $2,798 and weighs 1,141 grams

    They have the same reach, 24-200 mm eqv., both lenses get stellar reviews, both bodies have great IBIS, but the body to the left, a Nikon Z6, is full frame while the body to the right, an Olympus E-M1 III, is MFT. One can shout build quality and weather sealing till the cows come home and longer, but Nikon was never famous for making bad cameras and the Z6 shoots RAW video.

    Olympus make great cameras and lenses. I have used them since the first OM-1, a camera that served me well for 30 years. However, it's time to realise that, at least for Olympus, not going full frame was probably a mistake. Ironically Panasonic, who has gone full frame, is probably in a better position to keep MFT alive due to their heavier emphasis on video.
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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Right? That's why the m43rds unique selling proposition was so important.

    There's bodies/lens models that still uphold that, but going F1.2 expensive primes was not the way.

    - Ricardo
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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Right? That's why the m43rds unique selling proposition was so important.

    There's bodies/lens models that still uphold that, but going F1.2 expensive primes was not the way.

    - Ricardo
    That's right. The new, compact Panasonic G100 with most of the great MFT features intact and a collection of small, lightweight lenses, will probably be my future MFT setup. I actually already have most of what I need for that, 8/12/25/45 mm. Just lacking the 75 mm.

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Here's some of the reason for it:



    The combo to the left costs $2,494 and weighs 1,155 grams
    The combo to the right costs $2,798 and weighs 1,141 grams

    They have the same reach, 24-200 mm eqv., both lenses get stellar reviews, both bodies have great IBIS, but the body to the left, a Nikon Z6, is full frame while the body to the right, an Olympus E-M1 III, is MFT. One can shout build quality and weather sealing till the cows come home and longer, but Nikon was never famous for making bad cameras and the Z6 shoots RAW video.

    Olympus make great cameras and lenses. I have used them since the first OM-1, a camera that served me well for 30 years. However, it's time to realise that, at least for Olympus, not going full frame was probably a mistake. Ironically Panasonic, who has gone full frame, is probably in a better position to keep MFT alive due to their heavier emphasis on video.
    Cannot say why, but I ordered a Nikon Z7 and the S 2.8/24-70 last week during the latest discounts going on in Austria

    Not sure if this was some feeling I had WRT m43 and Olympus future?

    Anyway I am no longer sure if m43 will continue long term (10 years range), even APSC might be doomed.
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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Oh well.
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Here's some of the reason for it:



    The combo to the left costs $2,494 and weighs 1,155 grams
    The combo to the right costs $2,798 and weighs 1,141 grams

    They have the same reach, 24-200 mm eqv., both lenses get stellar reviews, both bodies have great IBIS, but the body to the left, a Nikon Z6, is full frame while the body to the right, an Olympus E-M1 III, is MFT. One can shout build quality and weather sealing till the cows come home and longer, but Nikon was never famous for making bad cameras and the Z6 shoots RAW video.

    Olympus make great cameras and lenses. I have used them since the first OM-1, a camera that served me well for 30 years. However, it's time to realise that, at least for Olympus, not going full frame was probably a mistake. Ironically Panasonic, who has gone full frame, is probably in a better position to keep MFT alive due to their heavier emphasis on video.
    Im not so sure that this is why Olympus met their demise. Sony infused cash into their business years ago and sold off those portion a year or so ago. The writing has been on the wall for years regarding Olympus and the reality is that when the P&S market shrunk, larger sensor options became more affordable, and more importantly when cellphone imagery matured - they became less of an option.

    Itís not just about small size IMO or the Nikon 1 system would still be around. Itís about making products that people want AND marketing them to the masses appropriately. Olympus has had trouble doing this. I think Panasonic MFT will continue on perfectly fine with cameras like the G100, the G9, and the GH series but perhaps they can reduce the number of bodies they offer in a shrinking market. The G100 seems especially interesting for those that want higher quality photos and video to post to social media. It seems like a great option for those that were interested in the Sony ZV1 but wanted interchangeable lenses. For vlogging and a small camera it seems like a great option. It will be interesting to see if the other G cameras receive many of the G100 software features in firmware. This could push those with a larger budget to the G95 or GH5 that may want the features the G100 offers but also may want the flexibility to do even more at times.
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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Cannot say why, but I ordered a Nikon Z7 and the S 2.8/24-70 last week during the latest discounts going on in Austria

    Not sure if this was some feeling I had WRT m43 and Olympus future?

    Anyway I am no longer sure if m43 will continue long term (10 years range), even APSC might be doomed.
    Congrats. Hope you enjoy it.

    The good thing is that the Olympus system you own won’t become obsolete and perhaps you can snag a new body at a heavy discount if you’re lucky. I don’t think APS-C (well Fuji anyway) is doomed. They have a healthy market following and offer unique products marketed towards their users. I also think Sony APS-C is safe as will Canon RF should they introduce more APS-C designed lenses that are reasonably affordable. When they make a 7D equivalent body it’ll sell. There’s a market for the Z50 and for the advanced amateur or hobbyist it’s a good option... APS-C likely won’t go anywhere but companies will need to shrink the number of bodies they offer that aren’t widely varied IMO. Gone will be the days of the D3xxx, D5xxx, D7xxx, and the Dxxx or all the Canon Rebel and Sony A6xxxx variants. I think we will begin to see at most a premium APS-C body with the EOL model sold alongside as the value option. We will see a casual vlog/compact option. We will see premium cameras.

    Everything else will probably be scrapped if companies want to survive and/or thrive.
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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    That's right. The new, compact Panasonic G100 with most of the great MFT features intact and a collection of small, lightweight lenses, will probably be my future MFT setup. I actually already have most of what I need for that, 8/12/25/45 mm. Just lacking the 75 mm.
    Why the G100? What exactly the G100 has over say a GX9 for stills?

    I don't see it.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    from dpreview
    "The resolution is 3.68M dot equivalent, with the e-word denoting the use of a field-sequential update where the red, green and blue components of the image are flashed at your eye one after the other (rather than having separate, sub-pixel 'dots' showing each color at each location)."

    Also uses the same shutter mechanism of GM1/GM5 with the same limitations.

    I don't see why go for this camera except for v-logging, which is exactly the market it's aimed at.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    from dpreview
    "The resolution is 3.68M dot equivalent, with the e-word denoting the use of a field-sequential update where the red, green and blue components of the image are flashed at your eye one after the other (rather than having separate, sub-pixel 'dots' showing each color at each location)."

    Also uses the same shutter mechanism of GM1/GM5 with the same limitations.

    I don't see why go for this camera except for v-logging, which is exactly the market it's aimed at.

    - Ricardo
    I watched a different video that stated the EVF was LCD versus OLED but not field sequential. I donít want to speak for Jorgen but I believe he prefers smaller cameras with SLR form factors... and many feel the GX9 was a step back from the GX8 which is why many have an adverse reaction to the GX9. Personally I will probably get a G100 for my wife as she would likely leave it in intelligent auto mode honestly... but I also want to see if some of the software features (specifically the social media frame guides and integrated features like mic tracking if possible) will come to the G95 or the premium G cameras. If not, the G100 is good enough since I was already considering the ZV1 for her.
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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    https://www.43rumors.com/it-happened...siness-to-jip/

    Officially, JIP and Panasonic will continue developing MFT. My guess is that it will become a much more niche product than before, with strong emphasis on video where the small sensor has its strength. If I were to buy a small camera mainly for photography today and didn't have any investment in MFT, I would clearly have chosen a Nikon Z50, a Canon M50 or one of the Fuji models. Nikon in particular has shown with the Z50 what can be achieved with a small, ergonomically sound body and compact, reasonably priced lenses.

    Not the death of MFT, and I'm not selling my gear, but the focus will change.
    Bummer.

    Soon the only cameras we'll be able to buy will be on cellphones.

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Sad to hear Olympus throwing in the towel, but such it is. They've made some great lenses and cameras over the years. I still have my E-1 and E-M1 kit, and I'll just continue using it infrequent though it might be that I do so.

    Forever doesn't exist in this business, just as with anything else.

    G

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Here's some of the reason for it:



    The combo to the left costs $2,494 and weighs 1,155 grams
    The combo to the right costs $2,798 and weighs 1,141 grams

    They have the same reach, 24-200 mm eqv., both lenses get stellar reviews, both bodies have great IBIS, but the body to the left, a Nikon Z6, is full frame while the body to the right, an Olympus E-M1 III, is MFT. One can shout build quality and weather sealing till the cows come home and longer, but Nikon was never famous for making bad cameras and the Z6 shoots RAW video.

    Olympus make great cameras and lenses. I have used them since the first OM-1, a camera that served me well for 30 years. However, it's time to realise that, at least for Olympus, not going full frame was probably a mistake. Ironically Panasonic, who has gone full frame, is probably in a better position to keep MFT alive due to their heavier emphasis on video.
    Executive summary: I disagree .

    Nikon Z 24-200mm is too new to judge yet, but I really doubt that it plays in the same league as Olympus 12-100/4. The Nikon lens is not an S lens, does not have the same level of weather sealing as the Olympus and I read that it is slightly better than Nikon 28-300, which is not a good sign :-).

    By staying with m43, Olympus was able to implement the best of the class IBIS and quite interesting hand-held high-resolution mode. It has a series of small and lightweight f/1.8 primes as well as the really good and light 12-45 zoom, which are not available with full-frame. I see the main competition weight and size-wise in the Fuji APS-C system, though Fuji is lacking anything comparable to the 12-45 and 12-100.

    I hope that Olympus will continue innovating in the mirrorless arena and that its user base will continue to grow. Unfortunately, there is too much Schadenfreude going around and it may affect the sales.

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by SrMphoto View Post
    Executive summary: I disagree .

    Nikon Z 24-200mm is too new to judge yet, but I really doubt that it plays in the same league as Olympus 12-100/4. The Nikon lens is not an S lens, does not have the same level of weather sealing as the Olympus and I read that it is slightly better than Nikon 28-300, which is not a good sign :-).

    By staying with m43, Olympus was able to implement the best of the class IBIS and quite interesting hand-held high-resolution mode. It has a series of small and lightweight f/1.8 primes as well as the really good and light 12-45 zoom, which are not available with full-frame. I see the main competition weight and size-wise in the Fuji APS-C system, though Fuji is lacking anything comparable to the 12-45 and 12-100.

    I hope that Olympus will continue innovating in the mirrorless arena and that its user base will continue to grow. Unfortunately, there is too much Schadenfreude going around and it may affect the sales.
    F/1.8 primes and small, lightweight zooms:
    I agree fully, and that is what I will use MFT with in the future. For that, I need a compact, simple body with a high quality viewfinder, like the one I have in the GX8. A GX9 with the GX8 viewfinder, a 3.5mm mic socket and 120fps slo'mo' would be nice.

    Great IBIS:
    Yes, Olympus' IBIS is great, but the Nikon Z6 plus the cameras using the same sensor can shoot at ISO two stops higher than the Olympus with the same level of noise. The Z6 offers IBIS in addition to that.

    Sensor size and image quality:
    I have been using MFT (mostly Panasonic) and Nikon (DX and FX) side-by-side for ten years. My belief has always been that sensor technology would improve at a pace fast enough for MFT to lag only a couple of years behind with noise levels and exposure lattitude. Unfortunately, things seem to be getting worse. Even at ISO 100, the Nikon 24MP sensor shows more detail and less noise than the E-M1 III sensor.

    Lens size and quality:
    Nobody can compete with the smallest high quality primes and zooms for MFT when it comes to image quality per kilogram. However, that niche is getting smaller. When I sold my Nikon FX gear a few years ago, including the good but biiiig Nikkor 200-500mm lens and changed to the Panasonic 100-300mm, I could get the same job done at a third of the weight, at least as long as there was enough light to shoot at F8. Fast forward to 2020 and I can get almost as much reach with the AF-P F-mount Nikkor 70-300mm on a Z50, a lens that would allow me to shoot at larger apertures getting the same or better sharpness and with a sensor twice the size. The price and size are more or less the same. Telephoto was always one of the good reasons for using MFT.

    The Nikkor 24-200mm:
    This guy is a Nikon fanboy, but the image quality telles its own story, particularly in the 24-70 vs. 24-200 comparison.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5vOKV1fcCw
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7AkjAP1IMM&t=1537s

    There are some fantastic MFT lenses around, and I happen to own a bunch of them. Nothing can replace the Panasonic 7-14mm for weight and size. The primes have been mentioned many times. It is a niche however. Hopefully MFT can survive in that niche for many years to come, but it won't be easy.

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Glad I bought the excellent Olympus FT and mFT cameras and lenses I that own...they should serve me well for many years to come. My only concern would be parts and service, but that is certainly not unique to Olympus. I have that concern with camera companies that are still in the business.

    Gary

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by iiiNelson View Post
    I watched a different video that stated the EVF was LCD versus OLED but not field sequential.
    So if dpreview TV first pass review is right, it is sequential but it's really good at avoiding the shimmer. Probably higher frequency.

    I donít want to speak for Jorgen but I believe he prefers smaller cameras with SLR form factors... and many feel the GX9 was a step back from the GX8 which is why many have an adverse reaction to the GX9. Personally I will probably get a G100 for my wife as she would likely leave it in intelligent auto mode honestly... but I also want to see if some of the software features (specifically the social media frame guides and integrated features like mic tracking if possible) will come to the G95 or the premium G cameras. If not, the G100 is good enough since I was already considering the ZV1 for her.
    The G100 is a vlog friendly GX850, with the new EVF and a nice grip, plus 20 MP sensor. I would have been interested if it was a tiltLCD and small like this, but again, the GX9 fulfills his.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post

    <snip>

    Great IBIS:
    Yes, Olympus' IBIS is great, but the Nikon Z6 plus the cameras using the same sensor can shoot at ISO two stops higher than the Olympus with the same level of noise. The Z6 offers IBIS in addition to that.

    <snip>
    I always find the comparisons between sensor sizes a bit problematic, but .. here we go :-).

    I like images with a lot of depth-of-field. In order to get the same DOF with my M1.3 and my Z 7, I need to close the aperture of the Z 7 lens by two stops more, which negates the 2-stop advantage of the full-frame cameras as my ISO for a given shutter speed must also increase by 2 stops.
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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Why the G100? What exactly the G100 has over say a GX9 for stills?

    I don't see it.

    - Ricardo
    See my post on the G100 thread.

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by SrMphoto View Post
    I always find the comparisons between sensor sizes a bit problematic, but .. here we go :-).

    I like images with a lot of depth-of-field. In order to get the same DOF with my M1.3 and my Z 7, I need to close the aperture of the Z 7 lens by two stops more, which negates the 2-stop advantage of the full-frame cameras as my ISO for a given shutter speed must also increase by 2 stops.
    There are often times when I also want greater DOF at moderate apertures and when I do, it is usually a mFT camera that I take along.

    Gary

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by SrMphoto View Post
    I always find the comparisons between sensor sizes a bit problematic, but .. here we go :-).

    I like images with a lot of depth-of-field. In order to get the same DOF with my M1.3 and my Z 7, I need to close the aperture of the Z 7 lens by two stops more, which negates the 2-stop advantage of the full-frame cameras as my ISO for a given shutter speed must also increase by 2 stops.
    Which is one of the reasons why a small MFT camera with the fantastic PL 45mm f/2.8 Macro is almost always in my bag.

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Here's some of the reason for it:
    Sure, if you're willing to overlook the fact that the Nikon is a f/4-6.3 lens while the Olympus is f/4 constant aperture.

    The comparison starts to look very different if you compare Nikon 24-200 to Olympus f/3.5-6.3 12-200. Yes, 24-200 versus 24-400 equivalent. That longer Olympus lens is a bit lighter, about 17 mm shorter than the Zuiko Pro lens shown, and 400 USD cheaper than the Pro lens.

    The world's closets are already filled with full-frame cameras and fast, high-performance lenses while much of the actual shooting gets done using mobile devices.

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by 4season View Post
    ...
    The world's closets are already filled with full-frame cameras and fast, high-performance lenses while much of the actual shooting gets done using mobile devices.
    LOL!! My iPhone 11 Pro camera is a superb performer for sure.

    That said, it's never going to replace the Hasselblad 907x, but it puts up a good fight against my Leica M and CL digital ... as long as I have good light and a smartphone support to work with.

    G

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by 4season View Post
    Sure, if you're willing to overlook the fact that the Nikon is a f/4-6.3 lens while the Olympus is f/4 constant aperture.

    The comparison starts to look very different if you compare Nikon 24-200 to Olympus f/3.5-6.3 12-200. Yes, 24-200 versus 24-400 equivalent. That longer Olympus lens is a bit lighter, about 17 mm shorter than the Zuiko Pro lens shown, and 400 USD cheaper than the Pro lens.

    The world's closets are already filled with full-frame cameras and fast, high-performance lenses while much of the actual shooting gets done using mobile devices.
    1. Yes, I overlooked that. I also overlooked the fact that the smaller 4/3 sensor needs 2 stops more light to perform as well as the fullk frame sensor. Those who worship equivalence would claim that the Zuiko lens is a 24-200mm f/8 equivalent, and they are partly right.

    2. I have only found one serious review of the Nikkor 24-400mm, but that review clearly demonstrates that the lens is more or less as sharp as the Zuiko 12-200mm at all focal lengths. The Zuiko 12-200mm doesn't even come close, and again, "equivalists" would claim that it's a 24-400mm f/7-12.6 equivalent.

    This is the exact problem that I struggle with when using my Panasonic 100-300mm f/4-5.6. Already wide open, there's a bit too much DOF for some situations, particularly when the distance to the subject is a bit long. That's made even worse by the fact that it isn't really sharp until f/8 and by the fact that I'm more loimited with regards to using high ISO with MFT. It's a fine lens, and very useful, particularly considering that it's a quarter of the weight of the Nikkor 200-500mm I used back in the day. However, Nikon appears to be making great progress, offering camera bodies and lenses more or less as compact as the MFT equivalents and at similar prices. That makes the case for using a camera with a smaller sensor a bit more complicated than it used to be.

    There are still cases where MFT rules superior, but with the camera/lens combos mentioned above, it's in reality the full fram alternative that under most circumstances will offer the best image quality at the best price. Things may look different when taking photos during a snow storm or other extreme conditions, but that is not the circumstances under which most people go out to take photos.

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    I liked/like my FourThirds and Micro-FourThirds cameras and lenses an awful lot. To this day, there are circumstances when my ancient E-1 still makes better pictures than anything else I've had or have. The E-M1 image qualities are technically slightly better when it comes to detail resolution and image gradation via its higher pixel count and very light to no AA filter, but I think the heavy antialiasing filter on the small, 5Mpixel CCD sensor in the E-1 body creates nuanced influences on photos that is not easily recreated in other cameras.

    BUT, along the way I acquired a good bunch of Leica R lenses relatively inexpensively and found that the APS-C format with 24 Mpixel (like the Leica CL) proves a better compromise, for me, when it comes to small format digital cameras because of that investment. It provides the right balance of pixel count and image qualities with lens whose rendering I like the most. Aside from the Leica M, most of the FF cameras are too darn bulky for what I want in this class of camera or require much bulkier lenses, and the Leica M 240 or M10 is too limited due to its primary focusing/viewing system even though it can be used as an EVF camera as well. That's why I've settled on the CL and a modest kit of R and M lenses as my small format standard, after working my way through much too much equipment along the way.

    As I said, I'll keep my E-1, maybe the E-M1 too, and use them til they don't work anymore. They've paid for themselves many times over already, and I still enjoy using both of them on the rare occasions when I get the urge.

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    1. Yes, I overlooked that. I also overlooked the fact that the smaller 4/3 sensor needs 2 stops more light to perform as well as the fullk frame sensor.
    Hi JÝrgen, I find this hard to believe, perhaps I misunderstand what you're saying here. If you said the 4/3 sensor provides twice the DoF I'd have agreed.
    Bart ...

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Come on folks, Olympus is sold and maybe dying finally - hope not but I am not confident they will make the turnaround under their new ownership.

    I have shot with almost all camera systems throughout my life - analog and digital, crop, FF and MF - AND - Olympus was always one of the most preferred brands I owned and shot, especially their m43 pro cameras and lenses. Just bought the excellent EM1.3 some 4 months ago and what a wonderful camera it is!

    Having said that - I guess my second best loved camera brand was overall Nikon FF - film as well as digital. Optically superb in most cases (lens options) but also from the operability side of their cameras. This was/is also the main reason why I jumped on the Nikon mirrorless train with the Z7 and the 2.8/24-70 well before this announcement from Olympus. And very well it could be this will be my last camera brand I mainly work with.

    Olympus initiated the mirrorless train and they kept improving and optimising and we see the culmination of this evolution currently in their EM1.3 and EM1.X - although I believe the EM1.X project was one of their most guaranteed way and reasons into the situation where they are in now - sold and dead. Economically and concept wise this camera was a big failure in the m43 arena - far too big and far to niche and far too small market IMHO. I shot it several times and it is an absolute great camera - but not with that sensor size and the limitations coming final with it and especially for that price!

    For my taste Olympus became pretty ignorant and arrogant over the past years and while trying to innovate with some success their biggest demise was the lack of competitive sensors. And also the attitude of some of their Visionaries as well as marketing folks who (some of them) are simply a shame for any brand - do not want to mention names but anyone can guess who knows which part of the world I live in. With their attitude and arrogance they simply did not help the survival and flourishing of the Olympus brand - unfortunately. And I am really feeling sad about that because I was a loyal Olympus user for so many years throughout my whole life.

    I still hope that the Olympus brand can survive reasonably well but I believe they are up for the final round over next 1-3 years and the dead. m43 might survive somehow longer but also this trend will be finalised by the ever increasing quality and possibilities of coming smartphone generations.

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    1. Yes, I overlooked that. I also overlooked the fact that the smaller 4/3 sensor needs 2 stops more light to perform as well as the fullk frame sensor. Those who worship equivalence would claim that the Zuiko lens is a 24-200mm f/8 equivalent, and they are partly right.

    2. I have only found one serious review of the Nikkor 24-400mm, but that review clearly demonstrates that the lens is more or less as sharp as the Zuiko 12-200mm at all focal lengths. The Zuiko 12-200mm doesn't even come close, and again, "equivalists" would claim that it's a 24-400mm f/7-12.6 equivalent.
    <snip>
    The comments on DPR suggest that the Nikon Z 24-200 is actually an f/8+ lens (needs to be stopped down for quality reasons). If true that would mean that you lose two stops to Olympus 12-100/4.

    Can you point me to the serious review of Nikon Z 24-200? I am only aware of the one by Ricci, who is a Nikon employee, AFAIK.

    It may be that the Z 24-200 is a 'miracle' lens like the 12-100/4, but I have not seen yet enough critical reviews or willingness to replace 24-70/2.8 with Z 24-200.

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by Knorp View Post
    Hi JÝrgen, I find this hard to believe, perhaps I misunderstand what you're saying here. If you said the 4/3 sensor provides twice the DoF I'd have agreed.
    Under controlled tests, the Nikon Z6 sensor is more or less as noisy at ISO 6400 as the E-M1 III sensor at ISO 1600 when the Z6 image is reduced to 20MP. Too me, that doesn't matter too much, since I mostly shoot at low ISO anyway, but when marketing cameras to the general public, it matters a lot. The "full frame is better" claim does have some substance, and it's used for all it's worth. That's where Olympus have been losing, not in general photography. I can take just as good photos with an Olympus as I can with a Nikon or a Habelsad.

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by SrMphoto View Post
    The comments on DPR suggest that the Nikon Z 24-200 is actually an f/8+ lens (needs to be stopped down for quality reasons). If true that would mean that you lose two stops to Olympus 12-100/4.

    Can you point me to the serious review of Nikon Z 24-200? I am only aware of the one by Ricci, who is a Nikon employee, AFAIK.

    It may be that the Z 24-200 is a 'miracle' lens like the 12-100/4, but I have not seen yet enough critical reviews or willingness to replace 24-70/2.8 with Z 24-200.
    Even if the Nikkor were an "f/8-lens", it would be on par with the Zuiko for all practical purposes and still cheaper. I don't know what dpr members base their comments on though, since the lens isn't available yet other than to a few, selected reviewers. They seem to agree that it's an unusually good lens.

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Even if the Nikkor were an "f/8-lens", it would be on par with the Zuiko for all practical purposes and still cheaper. I don't know what dpr members base their comments on though, since the lens isn't available yet other than to a few, selected reviewers. They seem to agree that it's an unusually good lens.
    Keeping finger crossed that the Z 24-200 is on par with image quality of Zuiko 12-100. That would give the Z mount quite a boost. Sony does not have anything comparable.

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by SrMphoto View Post
    Keeping finger crossed that the Z 24-200 is on par with image quality of Zuiko 12-100. That would give the Z mount quite a boost. Sony does not have anything comparable.
    This is highly off topic, but the Nikkor is apparently shipping now. Reaction from a dpr poster today:

    "Ordered it day 1. It showed as back ordered a day or so ago.

    A few quick test shots show it's another Z stunner!!!!!!

    Small, light and sharp.

    I'm more than happy.

    Mel"


    Yeah, Nikon could use a boost. Like Olympus, they make great cameras and lenses, and there aren't many of the "historic" camera makers left. They have one more thing going for them: Most current F-mount lenses can be used for SLR, DSLR and mirrorless, full frame and APS-C going 60 years back. Again, this is not relevant for the majority of users, but it is for me. My Zuiko OM lenses work on MFT, but even with a Speed Booster, they are cropped.

    Olympus has always been the "Odd Bird Out", and often technologically ahead of the pack. The problems with digital cameras are that it relies on big corporations for much of the technology and that those same corporations are also competitors with all their monies and marketing clout. Staying with a user interface that has been heavily criticised by many, also by long term Olympus users like myself, probably hasn't helped either, although Sony seems to get away with a quirky interface. I would have been an Olympus user hadn't it been for that interface, but I chose Panasonic, since the user interface is similar to that of Nikon, which I also use.

  35. #35
    Senior Member 4season's Avatar
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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    For what it's worth, the web site for Japan Industrial Partners is here: https://jipinc.com/

    If JIP were only seeking to monetize trademarks and intellectual property, they surely could have chosen easier targets than Olympus Camera and Sony's VAIO division. So for now, I shall not consider the fate of Olympus's camera division a foregone conclusion.

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    This is highly off topic, but the Nikkor is apparently shipping now. Reaction from a dpr poster today:

    "Ordered it day 1. It showed as back ordered a day or so ago.

    A few quick test shots show it's another Z stunner!!!!!!

    Small, light and sharp.

    I'm more than happy.

    Mel"


    Yeah, Nikon could use a boost. Like Olympus, they make great cameras and lenses, and there aren't many of the "historic" camera makers left. They have one more thing going for them: Most current F-mount lenses can be used for SLR, DSLR and mirrorless, full frame and APS-C going 60 years back. Again, this is not relevant for the majority of users, but it is for me. My Zuiko OM lenses work on MFT, but even with a Speed Booster, they are cropped.

    Olympus has always been the "Odd Bird Out", and often technologically ahead of the pack. The problems with digital cameras are that it relies on big corporations for much of the technology and that those same corporations are also competitors with all their monies and marketing clout. Staying with a user interface that has been heavily criticised by many, also by long term Olympus users like myself, probably hasn't helped either, although Sony seems to get away with a quirky interface. I would have been an Olympus user hadn't it been for that interface, but I chose Panasonic, since the user interface is similar to that of Nikon, which I also use.
    M1.3 solved the issue of UI complexity: they added MyMenu :-). Frankly, to me, it is one of the major advantages of M1.3 vs M1.2. They also have, IMO, the best method to add items to the MyMenu (press VideoRec button while in any menu). Also, hand-held High-Res is really cool, especially since an m43 camera is mostly used hand-held. Only Sony beats Olympus in the complexity of menus .

    Wishing Olympus all the best not only because the first camera I ever bought was an OM-2n. They were always very innovative.

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by 4season View Post
    For what it's worth, the web site for Japan Industrial Partners is here: https://jipinc.com/

    If JIP were only seeking to monetize trademarks and intellectual property, they surely could have chosen easier targets than Olympus Camera and Sony's VAIO division. So for now, I shall not consider the fate of Olympus's camera division a foregone conclusion.
    That's because in part, it is the Japanese companies trying to divest themselves of another, choosing them. Read that it's a way to go around Japanese laws for employment too.

    - Ricardo

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    I posted this elsewhere, but I think it's an interesting exercise and decomposition of where this at least landed me. Slightly updated grammar.

    M4/3 goes away, long live M4/3
    ------------
    Not seeing how m4/3 will continue into the mid to long future. The fundamental issue is who gets new sensor tech in with their market collapsing, economies of scale gone -no one but m43 uses m43- apsc and FF have numbers.

    In fact we are about to see the under $1,000 USD FF war - Canon started - Sony and Nikon heavily rumored to bring competing cameras in that space soon enough.
    Panasonic will be forced to cut their loses too and focus on the L mount. They are also about to bring an entry level L mount. Before you point to the g100 note that the g100 hardly has anything new they didnít already have parts wise.

    So for us i think thereís two paths which depend on first on a couple of questions:

    1 Are you really trying to do photography or are you a camera model collector / toy player?

    2 Are you addicted to buying equipment?

    I say this with no offense to either category - but you have to know which one you are in -or if you are addicted buying gear you may want to look hard at yourself and realize this isnít photography and probably you may want to get out of addiction.

    if you are a camera toy player you may want to keep or move since development will come to a halt. This whole ďupgrade at every modelĒ isnít really required to do photography at all - itís not photography - itís something else And a luxury that those who can- can only afford.

    If you are a photographer then I think the path is more straightforward forward

    The two paths

    1 Sell now - go somewhere else.

    2 Keep and use until it breaks.

    I am going to focus on the photographer...

    If you are really and honestly trying to do photography - cameras from any brands are tools, not an extension of your self confidence and ego.

    If you just got a shiny new em5 mark iii - nothing has changed right now that justifies not going for it as far as a tool with enough features , speed , image quality - it fulfilled your requirements as it did when it just came out and these news didnít hit - you decided to buy it back then after all.

    Given sensor tech is not improving by leaps and bounds every year, nothing should really change for you here because you already decided the current m43 sensor was enough for you- unless you have repair requirements- like you are always shooting in mud and desert or such where you already know you have had to replace/fix/clean by manufacturer your equipment - nothing has changed.

    Keep using what you got until it breaks.

    If you really think itís best to divest yourself and try to get as much $$ as you can now - maybe do that - but do it because itís a financial choice that seems to work for you- not because you look at the very equipment you just bought as not fulfilling your photography requirements.

    Speaking for myself I have been both photographer and toy player, and I did become addicted to buying equipment too. I have had to slowly put the brakes on the later.

    Been thinking maybe sell now and go Fuji but what exactly does that change for me photographically right now, when Iíve made the decision to go m43. And if I am lucky I get to see an epl11 with the 20mp sensor with no optical filter - that would be an ideal match for me.

    - Ricardo
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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    I hope they will continue the brand and the legacy. I have a soft spot for them and still have and use my Olympus film camera as well as many lenses that do double duty on FF mirrorless with an adapter. Their optics are great, from the OM Zuiko's to the PEN-F lenses and now their digital line-up.

    Not sure about their digital bodies, great features, small, light that's all good. Only not so sure about the small sensor, but that's probably because I am spoiled by mirrorless FF. On the other hand the small sensor also leads to smaller lenses with more reach, so from that perspective there's little to complain about.

    I would really hate to see them going under.

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post


    If you just got a shiny new em5 mark iii - nothing has changed right now that justifies not going for it as far as a tool with enough features , speed , image quality - it fulfilled your requirements as it did when it just came out and these news didnít hit - you decided to buy it back then after all.


    - Ricardo
    But what if you were just about to buy the Mark III ?

    I've had my em1 Mk II for nearly three years and hence it owes me very little.

    But there are a few features on the Mk III that I fancy; the joystick, the improved My Menus and the USB charging,
    and although the lack of travel opportunities for me make any immediate spend on cameras a non-starter, the seed had been sewn .


    But with this announcement ???????????????????????????????????????????
    Ian.
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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Hi Ian, will there ever be again a substantially better Olympus camera? For me most important would be a huge improvement in sensor readout time.

    Without that my Sony A9 rules supreme!
    With best regards, K-H.

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by Elderly View Post
    But what if you were just about to buy the Mark III ?

    I've had my em1 Mk II for nearly three years and hence it owes me very little.

    But there are a few features on the Mk III that I fancy; the joystick, the improved My Menus and the USB charging,
    and although the lack of travel opportunities for me make any immediate spend on cameras a non-starter, the seed had been sewn .


    But with this announcement ???????????????????????????????????????????
    There will never be a better time to buy an Olympus, so just go ahead and do it

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    There might never be another time to buy an Olympus, so just go ahead and do it
    FTFY Jorgen
    Ian.
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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by Elderly View Post
    But what if you were just about to buy the Mark III ?
    Buy it and enjoy it? Because the future is unknowable. But if the VAIO computer brand is any indication, it still exists on a much smaller scale, vanished from the USA market for awhile (they've now got a USA web site) offering just two basic notebook PC models, both premium-priced and seemingly assembled in one of the original VAIO buildings in Japan.

    I wonder if there's government money involved here, aimed at keeping skills and production capabilities alive within the country.

    At the moment, I have no plans to sell my Olympus M43 system and it's not clear to me what I'd replace it with if I did. I already own Sony APS-C and FF equipment, and the thought of buying yet another system in those formats holds little appeal for me.

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by Elderly View Post
    But what if you were just about to buy the Mark III ?

    I've had my em1 Mk II for nearly three years and hence it owes me very little.

    But there are a few features on the Mk III that I fancy; the joystick, the improved My Menus and the USB charging,
    and although the lack of travel opportunities for me make any immediate spend on cameras a non-starter, the seed had been sewn .


    But with this announcement ???????????????????????????????????????????
    Well again, take out the announcement for a second- will you still buy the EM1 Mark III in today's market considering all the competitors that may be a match for your needs and wants? If the answer is YES, then yes, I would say go ahead an buy it (read what I posted why I think that makes sense).

    Also assumes you have some m43rds lenses, that this is not your first investment in the system.

    Basically the reasons you would have bought an EM1MKIII over anything in the market really don't change. The only exception would be if you are the kind of photographer that needs to send their equipment to the manufacturers for cleaning/repair often because you are shooting in the Sahara dessert after jumping off an airplane regularly or something extreme like that :-)


    - Ricardo

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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Congratulations Peter.
    Enjoy.

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Cannot say why, but I ordered a Nikon Z7 and the S 2.8/24-70 last week during the latest discounts going on in Austria

    Not sure if this was some feeling I had WRT m43 and Olympus future?

    Anyway I am no longer sure if m43 will continue long term (10 years range), even APSC might be doomed.
    koffee & kamera
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    Re: Olympus sells its imaging business

    Quote Originally Posted by raist3d View Post
    Well again, take out the announcement for a second- will you still buy the EM1 Mark III in today's market considering all the competitors that may be a match for your needs and wants? If the answer is YES, then yes, I would say go ahead an buy it (read what I posted why I think that makes sense).

    Also assumes you have some m43rds lenses, that this is not your first investment in the system.

    Basically the reasons you would have bought an EM1MKIII over anything in the market really don't change. The only exception would be if you are the kind of photographer that needs to send their equipment to the manufacturers for cleaning/repair often because you are shooting in the Sahara dessert after jumping off an airplane regularly or something extreme like that :-)


    - Ricardo
    Ricardo,
    When quoting you originally, I should have just written my first and last lines only
    and not made my question appear personal to me by adding the three aspects of the Mkiii that I said I "fancy".

    I really didn't want to turn my post into a 'what camera should I buy' thread
    ( I've heard rumours that there other photographic forums where that kind of question is rife ) but thank you for your useful input.

    I am good at procrastinating ( for better or for worse ) and at this moment I have no requirement, justification or excuse for making any equipment changes ......
    ....... but it doesn't stop my mind from exercising about the possibilities .
    Ian.
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