Nikon mirrorless ?

[pegelli]

In reading what is largely page after page of negative banter I can readily see I don’t have a place here either.

Three remarks:
- There's plenty positive banter as well, even in this thread
- Check out the image threads, even more positive and plenty splendid images to admire
- Don't contribute to what you feel is "negative banter"

Good luck with your decision

 

[Thorkil]

Sometimes I wonder how a vendor (or loyalty to one vendor) can influence clear thinking and cause symptoms of hypnosis - I am trying to stay polite.

PS1: on another note Jason Lanier is not a sucker - if you would once open your mind and watch some of his work (photography as well as youtube) you could see that - else you are ignorant. For me it was always important to listen to other opinions and try to understand other ways of doing things and thinking and not stating upfront that this is BS. The whole Internet would not have happened with that way of thinking!

PS2: most of us know your year long history with Nikon (at least as you sometimes shared it very openly in this forum) and your on/off relationship with that brand and other brands, so the opinions you are posting about this camera launch could have already been predicted - well if it would be worth doing it at all.

(Perhaps we shall keep focusing on trying to keep it all in a polite mood - anyway we are just talking about cameras, not society-development)
...and also non-intended-Nikon-users have to focus on respect for people that in one or another way are attached to Nikon and this camera, and are willing to do a few compromises to get the Nikon handling, -menysystem, user-friendly-functions, -costumer-approach combined with what seems to be the two highest benefits (to me), size/weight combined with a higher level of optical design and -possibilities.

From pictures and from sheer measures the Z6/7 seems not to have a big advantage compared to Nikon SLR's, but what surprised me, was the reality holding it, holding it against D750, D850(which is a huge brick side by side) X-T2 and X-H1. Even its a bit bigger than my X-T2, the subjective feeling was smaller. I guess its because of the naturel way it slips into your hand, where I can't hold the X-T2 or the Df just as naturel. That is very important to me walking around in city's etc. with a camera. And size matter too approaching people, a SLR is intruding in peoples mind, and frighten them a bit, the Z6/7 won't. You will still look like a friendly amateur.
While the ability to have FX lenses on is nice, the important thing to me, will be the new Z-prime-lenses, while they look so outstanding promising, but while waiting, the FX-lenses can do an important job. For me it will be primarily an 35mm camera until 2019.
I have been looking forward to this for several years, and I'm certainly ready to jump out on what someone's think might be deep water. But I'm confident. I think I don’t want to wait for several reviews, while at that time there will be risk of waiting another half or whole year, and that I don’t want anymore. I just can't wait - I want it now.

 

[ptomsu]

(Perhaps we shall keep focusing on trying to keep it all in a polite mood - anyway we are just talking about cameras, not society-development)
...and also non-intended-Nikon-users have to focus on respect for people that in one or another way are attached to Nikon and this camera, and are willing to do a few compromises to get the Nikon handling, -menysystem, user-friendly-functions, -costumer-approach combined with what seems to be the two highest benefits (to me), size/weight combined with a higher level of optical design and -possibilities.

From pictures and from sheer measures the Z6/7 seems not to have a big advantage compared to Nikon SLR's, but what surprised me, was the reality holding it, holding it against D750, D850(which is a huge brick side by side) X-T2 and X-H1. Even its a bit bigger than my X-T2, the subjective feeling was smaller. I guess its because of the naturel way it slips into your hand, where I can't hold the X-T2 or the Df just as naturel. That is very important to me walking around in city's etc. with a camera. And size matter too approaching people, a SLR is intruding in peoples mind, and frighten them a bit, the Z6/7 won't. You will still look like a friendly amateur.
While the ability to have FX lenses on is nice, the important thing to me, will be the new Z-prime-lenses, while they look so outstanding promising, but while waiting, the FX-lenses can do an important job. For me it will be primarily an 35mm camera until 2019.
I have been looking forward to this for several years, and I'm certainly ready to jump out on what someone's think might be deep water. But I'm confident. I think I don’t want to wait for several reviews, while at that time there will be risk of waiting another half or whole year, and that I don’t want anymore. I just can't wait - I want it now.

Nothing bad with that existing Nikon users are getting the most out of these cameras - BUT do you find that someone calling a person he/she does not know to be a sucker is not polite at all and as this happens lately too often IMHO I thought it would be appropriate to speak out!

I actually had hoped that the Z6/Z7 would also be for me as I am looking for a FF mirrorless and cannot come really friends with the Sony setup. But after this release it unfortunately seems that my search and wait are not over yet.

Good luck and joy with your decision!

 

[Thorkil]

Nothing bad with that existing Nikon users are getting the most out of these cameras - BUT do you find that someone calling a person he/she does not know to be a sucker is not polite at all and as this happens lately too often IMHO I thought it would be appropriate to speak out!

I actually had hoped that the Z6/Z7 would also be for me as I am looking for a FF mirrorless and cannot come really friends with the Sony setup. But after this release it unfortunately seems that my search and wait are not over yet.

Good luck and joy with your decision!

then perhaps you ought to give it an openminded try later on, when it will be available, or rentable, and see if compromises according to your style and needs will be able to cope with or not - also to prevent the inner myth-making we often do by autopilot

thorkil

 

[Godfrey]

...
I am sorry but I Just! Don’t! Get! This! All this back and forth, side to side, up, down and full on beating of camera brands all effing day long! What is the real value of this, things you have no control over, no real solid info on? It’s kind of insane folks and is so self indulgent in all the wrong ways it baffles my freaking mind.
...

Can only agree. It takes the joy out of things when the only community you can turn to just wants to debate and grandstand ad nauseam.

I don't understand all the negativity. The new Nikons look very well thought out to me, perhaps I'm simple-minded about these things. But I don't care about that. They'll certainly do more than I need—or even perhaps want—if I was in the market for Nikon equipment.

I'm thrilled about them the same way I was thrilled when the Leica S was announced, and the Hasselblad digital systems: such amazing new cameras, mind blowing for anyone used to the primitive stuff that I started with. Whatever their foibles (nothing's perfect) and regardless whether I'm actually interested to buy one, I suspect that they will do serious photographers very well.

It seems to be the modern norm that one must always put down any new thing in favor of what you personally prefer, no matter how picayune or minute the divergence. And without even seeing the new thing in person, or even in full final production form. And you must booster the brand you have, no matter what it is. Gods, I'd hate to be a manufacturer nowadays.

I hope your new equipment meets your needs and proves a pleasure to learn and work with.

G

 

[rayyan]

Folks, this thread is only about a camera for gawd’s sake.

I am sure, no certain, that we are mature adults, and should have the experience of age with us to avoid a replaceable camera sour relationships between us.

Our respect and the common bonds for the love of photography, should precede and be much more important than to allow a Z6/7 to determine how we converse with each other.

When emotions run high, please make a photograph.
So much better it is than to create the bitterness I sense creeping into this thread.

 

[pegelli]

I don't understand all the negativity.
G

Got the same remarks for you (and actually disagree this thread is very negative, certainly in comparison to certain threads at the time of other launches in the past)

Three remarks:
- There's plenty positive banter as well, even in this thread
- Check out the image threads, even more positive and plenty splendid images to admire
- Don't contribute to what you feel is "negative banter"

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

PS1: on another note Jason Lanier is not a sucker - if you would once open your mind and watch some of his work (photography as well as youtube) you could see that - else you are ignorant. For me it was always important to listen to other opinions and try to understand other ways of doing things and thinking and not stating upfront that this is BS. The whole Internet would not have happened with that way of thinking!

PS2: most of us know your year long history with Nikon (at least as you sometimes shared it very openly in this forum) and your on/off relationship with that brand and other brands, so the opinions you are posting about this camera launch could have already been predicted - well if it would be worth doing it at all.

Jason Lanier basically says that a camera that he apparently hasn't tried and that he doesn't seem to understand is a failure. Either he's a sucker or he's doing marketing work for Sony. I wish I could say ignorant, but he clearly isn't. There are plenty of suckers taking good photographs.

Yup, Nikon is one of the systems I use, besides m4/3, 4/3, Olympus OM, Mamiya 645 and Fuji GX680. Guilty as charged. I'm a fanboy of all these systems, so whenever I say something positive about them, take it with a grain of salt :lecture: :ROTFL: :chug:

 

[gandolfi]

Hey Diddle Diddle,
The cat and the fiddle,
The cow jumped over the moon,
The little dog laughed,
To see such fun,
And the dish ran away with the spoon.

 

[ptomsu]

Another youtube video - very positive and good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_mYhUsrElQ

enjoy!

 

[Photon42]

Nope, only 70 of the 360 F-mount AF lenses will AF with the adapter. So "mostly full functionality" is a bit of an overstatement.

Well, I guess the MF AI(s) lenses are fully compatible, too :grin:

 

[Photon42]

Jason Lanier basically says that a camera that he apparently hasn't tried and that he doesn't seem to understand is a failure. Either he's a sucker or he's doing marketing work for Sony. I wish I could say ignorant, but he clearly isn't. There are plenty of suckers taking good photographs.

Yup, Nikon is one of the systems I use, besides m4/3, 4/3, Olympus OM, Mamiya 645 and Fuji GX680. Guilty as charged. I'm a fanboy of all these systems, so whenever I say something positive about them, take it with a grain of salt :lecture: :ROTFL: :chug:

Good you mention your system list, I feel less bad now :ROTFL:

I do not know JL in person, but he seems to have a very bold and self-confident character (40 Sony engineers hung at my lips ...). I see that type a lot around where I work. Nothing wrong with the core statements in principle. It is more this transported implication (for me at least), that things have to be seen from his angele of view (no pun intended). This gets further amplified by pushing the grey area towards the direction underlining his argumentation (number of shots).

It is probably time to relax a bit and see the smoke clearing and to have this thing in hand for a while, rather than repeating the spec chevaliers' opinions. I anyone is then still interested, I 'll let you know how it works for me, once arrived. :grin:

 

[Bugleone]

Something that seems to be forgotten in all of this is that photographers/users are NOT the main beneficiaries of the mirrorless models,.....Nikon will presumably make more 'margin' since there is no mirror mechanism to be expensively made and assembled.

I am intrigued about what's happening further down the range with Nikon;.....the APS-C model range has been seriously 'crippled' in the latest iterations (which are due now for update)......the entry model, D3400 was massively crippled against the previous D3300 with the removal of much of it's facilities including the ability to use most nikon lenses and all or those with aperture rings. Also, the much more expensive D7500 has an inferior sensor to the earlier D7200.......Are we going to see eitehr the end of nikon APS-C DSLR models or will the already registered D3500 be something new and mirrorless?

 

[jlancasterd]

I wouldn't trade my D850 for one. It's already tiny compared to medium format. The D850 is essentially mirrorless in Live View mode anyway.

Being now in my late 70's, I'm beginning to find toting a heavy camera like the D5+24-70 f2.8 around is getting to be something of a chore. I'm therefore tempted by the Z6+24-70 combination, but will probably hold off until they've got the inevitable 'new system bugs' out of it.

 

[k-hawinkler]

Well, I guess the MF AI(s) lenses are fully compatible, too :grin:

Those lenses I now shoot with AF on my A9 and A7r.2 with the TechArt Pro autofocus adapter, referred to as TAP. Maybe the TAP folks can build such an adapter for the Z cameras. Being not the youngest anymore, I will use all the help I can get.

So far the discussions in this thread seem to have been fairly polite with the exception of some inflammatory words unnecessarily thrown in. Oh well.

 

[Vivek]

The adapter is infact quite nice. You can use even MF A lenses (no need for A, AI, AIS,... or prongs). You set the aperture from the camera and not the lens. How accurate the metering would be remains to be seen.

Remember that it is Nikon that made a big deal about their matrix metering working accurately with lenses with a chip and D.

For the 5 axis stabilisation to work, you do need the D (and later) lenses. Otherwise it is only 3 axis stabilisation.

Well, I guess the MF AI(s) lenses are fully compatible, too :grin:

 

[Vivek]

Sobering thoughts here:

https://www.dpreview.com/opinion/93...p-for-nikon-but-they-need-to-keep-being-brave

 

[Jorgen Udvang]

Another youtube video - very positive and good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_mYhUsrElQ

enjoy!

Very useful, thanks. Here are two more from the same source:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub80l5U4qik

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c_K9Kszkzrg

 

[k-hawinkler]

Sobering thoughts here:

https://www.dpreview.com/opinion/93...p-for-nikon-but-they-need-to-keep-being-brave

Well Vivek, everybody needs a Steve Jobs type, who throws a design back to the engineers if it is clumsy and not really thought through. :facesmack:

 

[D Fuller]

Sobering thoughts here:

https://www.dpreview.com/opinion/93...p-for-nikon-but-they-need-to-keep-being-brave

Good, thoughtful article. I, too, wish Nikon would open the spec for the Z mount. I’d very much like to see Zeiss produce a Z version of the Loxias.

But I think the real takeaway from that article is this: perhaps the most important determinant of the success (or not) of the Z Nikons is how aggressive they are with firmware updates. They will learn a lot when there are thousands of cameras out in the world, and if they translate that into firmware improvements on a regular basis, the camera’s and Nikon’s reputations will continually improve.