Arca Swiss Pico Lens Compatibility

[rdeloe]

Rob.... the actual camera mounts (where the camera actually mounts to the adapter) for all adapters are very similar or identical. I do not own the Apo-Digitar 35 but do own the Schneider 35XL. I believe the rear element is much larger than the lens you have. I do not know if the lens you have will reach infinity - maybe you have FFD information and you could check against the 35XL. The recessed lens board is a real PITA. I sent mine back.

Victor B.

It makes sense that they re-used the design of the actual camera mount part. It works well.

We have almost the same lens. If you have a Schneider 35XL then you have a Schneider-Kreuznach APO-Digitar 35mm f/5.6 XL-102, which differs from my Schneider-Kreuznach APO-Digitar 35mm f/5.6 L-88 only a bit in the optics, and in the design of the housing that holds the rear cell. The diameter of your rear lens cell assembly is 43mm, which is the same as mine. Flange distance is also almost identical too, so if the XL-102 reaches infinity, my L-88 will too.

It's good to hear that it's at least possible to reach infinity. The Arca-Swiss dealer I was corresponding with about this a couple months ago couldn't get a straight answer from France. The problem of lenses in Copal shutters in tight, deeply recessed lens boards existed in the film days too. People had all kinds of clever solutions, with the simplest being extension to the aperture lever that allowed you to control it easily on a recessed board.

 

[rdeloe]

Thanks, Victor.

I hope you are getting the same sales commissions as Rob gets on his Universalis referral sales.

I hope he gets a lot more than I get, because I get Zip, Bupkis, Nada!

 

[rdeloe]

I have one along with Rody (40,50,90,138) Schneider (35XL, 72L, 100, 120 Asph, 138 Float, 180T). I don't have enough time with it but initially there are two things I really like. The weight/size and the fit/movement of the components which is very precise. There is one other very positive aspect and that is the new lens mount which makes lenses very easy for travel.

I use this with my HB 907-100C..... great combination!

It should be noted that the 180T will not work with the Pico due to FFD but I listed it anyway. I have no intentions of selling my M-two but will more than likely part with my two Actus cameras.

Victor B.

Victor, is the issue with your 180T that the rail on the Pico is not long enough? This is another problem that people who used 4x5 field cameras with short beds had to deal with all the time. If it's a critical lens in your work, have you considered just extending it? There are lots of ways to add some space between the lens flange and the Pico front standard. Large format film people used to use special dedicated "top hat" lens boards. There are reliable and inexpensive ways to get the same thing with Pico boards.

 

[Paul2660]

40mm RodenstockWith the GFX and or the X2D it shows no movement. Why would it work on center but not allow movement?

Impressive camera in that it works with backs and mirrorless. Even the SL2.

Paul

 

[vjbelle]

40mm RodenstockWith the GFX and or the X2D it shows no movement. Why would it work on center but not allow movement?

Impressive camera in that it works with backs and mirrorless. Even the SL2.

Paul

The rear element protrudes into the flange opening or is so close that it is dangerous. Any movement, if at all, would be severely limited. The 60XL is more than likely the widest on either camera. Not sure if the 50mm Rody will work with the X2D but may due to the flange distance to the sensor. It will not work with my GFX. It's always the rear element!

Victor B.

 

[vjbelle]

Victor, is the issue with your 180T that the rail on the Pico is not long enough? This is another problem that people who used 4x5 field cameras with short beds had to deal with all the time. If it's a critical lens in your work, have you considered just extending it? There are lots of ways to add some space between the lens flange and the Pico front standard. Large format film people used to use special dedicated "top hat" lens boards. There are reliable and inexpensive ways to get the same thing with Pico boards.

Yes..... the rail is the limiting factor. Note that when AS states that the rail is 10 or 15CM in length that does not take into account the distance placement of the camera which is behind the rail - unlike other cameras. You can see this in the images of the camera.

It would be nice to have the 180T at my disposal but SK Grimes would have to make/modify the lens plate or there are spacers available that have mounts on each end. Regardless the tube/spacer would have to be very accurately made. The 180T is a very nice lens and is 'light'.

Victor B.

 

[vjbelle]

It makes sense that they re-used the design of the actual camera mount part. It works well.

We have almost the same lens. If you have a Schneider 35XL then you have a Schneider-Kreuznach APO-Digitar 35mm f/5.6 XL-102, which differs from my Schneider-Kreuznach APO-Digitar 35mm f/5.6 L-88 only a bit in the optics, and in the design of the housing that holds the rear cell. The diameter of your rear lens cell assembly is 43mm, which is the same as mine. Flange distance is also almost identical too, so if the XL-102 reaches infinity, my L-88 will too.

It's good to hear that it's at least possible to reach infinity. The Arca-Swiss dealer I was corresponding with about this a couple months ago couldn't get a straight answer from France. The problem of lenses in Copal shutters in tight, deeply recessed lens boards existed in the film days too. People had all kinds of clever solutions, with the simplest being extension to the aperture lever that allowed you to control it easily on a recessed board.

Yes..... the 35XL and your lens can both reach infinity.

This camera has your name on it. You would really enjoy it - maybe even more than me!! It's not without its faults but they are limited. One issue I can see for anyone that uses a tripod head with gearing is that there will always be stress on the gears because of the rearward weight of the camera. If you look at the web images you will see that the camera sit back from the center of the tripod. There is no way around this that I can see. Even if a longer rail were attached the forward movement would be limited by the rise/shift mechanics that the camera sits above. This rearward weight is fairly significant and it even affects how my Cube functions. The Cube wants to move in the direction of downward pull and this can easily be felt in the fore/aft adjustment. I don't have head gearing issues because I use a Kirk/RRS leveling base with an RRS PC Pro panning assembly that doesn't care what is put on top of it. I can get level very quickly and easily and that's all that's necessary for me.

Victor B.

 

[rdeloe]

Yes..... the rail is the limiting factor. Note that when AS states that the rail is 10 or 15CM in length that does not take into account the distance placement of the camera which is behind the rail - unlike other cameras. You can see this in the images of the camera.

It would be nice to have the 180T at my disposal but SK Grimes would have to make/modify the lens plate or there are spacers available that have mounts on each end. Regardless the tube/spacer would have to be very accurately made. The 180T is a very nice lens and is 'light'.

Victor B.

Sending SK Grimes a lot of money is definitely one way to do it....

If I wanted to mount that lens, I'd use this. I'm adapting a long lens with this myself, so I had it on my work bench.

That's a Schneider-Kreuznach B0 housing on top. It has Copal 0 mounting thread. A standard Copal 0 shutter screws into the same hole. The parts are all from RAFCamera. It starts with a Copal 0 to M65 adapter. Then there's an M65x1 30mm extension tube. The bottom part is an M65x1 to M42x1 adapter, which fits on any M42x1 board. RAF sells longer and shorter M65x1 tubes, and the ones from China on eBay are good to. Accuracy is not a problem. They are all bang on.

You would probably be able to shift your 180mm the maximum amount a Pico allows before vignetting on the sides of the M42x1 hole. If that was a concern, there are lots of other ways to attach something like this to a Pico lens board. You could leave off the M65x1 to M42x1 adapterand have a machinist fit an M65x1 female tube onto a standard Pico board. I think you'd be fine with M42x1 though. A 150mm lens does not vignette at maximum shift on my F-Universalis with this kind of setup, and a 180mm would be even less prone.

I wasn't kidding when I said there are lots of ways to do this! If m65x1 is too fat, you can use many other sizes of tubes and adapter plates. RAF does custom work for incredibly little money.

 

[Doppler9000]

I just reached out to Raf and asked him if he made Arca Swiss R Mount adapters. He doesn’t but is open to the idea. The Pico R Mount could be a good base on which to mount other adapters.

 

[vjbelle]

Rob..... here is an image of my camera with the shortest lens I am going to use with it ( 40mm Rody HR W ). You can see how far the back is from the center of the tripod and this is the closest it will get. As lenses get longer the distance becomes more rearward adding even more weight. My 120mm Asph moves the rail backwards so that only 2cm of the rail is showing in the front. That produces a lot of stress on gears.

Victor B.

 

[vjbelle]

I just reached out to Raf and asked him if he made Arca Swiss R Mount adapters. He doesn’t but is open to the idea. The Pico R Mount could be a good base on which to mount other adapters.

There's a fair amount of machining for the R mount - very unlike other plates like Cambo or AS. There's even a small stop pin involved. You would get a much better idea if you had one in your hands. Not easy to show with images.

Victor B.

 

[diggles]

I just reached out to Raf and asked him if he made Arca Swiss R Mount adapters. He doesn’t but is open to the idea. The Pico R Mount could be a good base on which to mount other adapters.

Rob's solution is very similar to what I came up with for the Nikon 200 on the Rm3di. I am able to use the full shift of the Rm3di with no vignetting. There are no issues with alignment either. Sharp in all directions.

It looks like Arca makes a Hasselblad V adapter for the Pico.

Pico lens board Hasselblad V

Pico system lens board adapter for use with Hasselblad V lenses with manual aperture control only. Flat lens board with Hasselblad V Bayonet mount B-board bayonet mounts to Pico front frame For ARCA-SWISS Pico view cameras only Black anodized aluminum SKU: 010908

arca-swiss-usa.com

Both RAF and CN Scope make a 65mm to Hasselblad V adapter that works perfectly with it.

M65x1 Thread to Hasselblad V Bayonet Mount Camera Adapter Ring for Helicoids

cnscope.com

M65x1 female thread to Hasselblad V camera mount adapter for helicoids

M65x1 thread to Hasselblad V camera adapter for helicoids

rafcamera.com

 

[Paul2660]

Rob..... here is an image of my camera with the shortest lens I am going to use with it ( 40mm Rody HR W ). You can see how far the back is from the center of the tripod and this is the closest it will get. As lenses get longer the distance becomes more rearward adding even more weight. My 120mm Asph moves the rail backwards so that only 2cm of the rail is showing in the front. That produces a lot of stress on gears.

Victor B.

View attachment 215500

Picture is with thousand words. Thanks. I forgot about the 120mm and the rear extension. Imagine the 210mm on the rig. My 90 has the rear extension also.

 

[Doppler9000]

Both RAF and CN Scope make a 65mm to Hasselblad V adapter that works perfectly with it.

M65x1 Thread to Hasselblad V Bayonet Mount Camera Adapter Ring for Helicoids

cnscope.com

M65x1 female thread to Hasselblad V camera mount adapter for helicoids

M65x1 thread to Hasselblad V camera adapter for helicoids

rafcamera.com

Warren - do you have experience with the CNSCOPE products?

 

[JeffK]

. That produces a lot of stress on gears.

Victor B.

View attachment 215500

The actus design is seemingly better in that aspect since the front and rear standard are moveable on the rail

 

[vjbelle]

The actus design is seemingly better in that aspect since the front and rear standard are moveable on the rail

No they aren't. The rear standard does move but the front standard is stationary. The advantage is that the rail is completely moveable in the tripod head unlike the Pico which has a very short mount plate attached to the rail. That way the weight, for the Actus, can be centered on the tripod head.

Victor B.

 

[diggles]

Warren - do you have experience with the CNSCOPE products?

Yes. I purchased the one pictured through their ebay shop.

Security Measure

www.ebay.com

I have both RAF and CN Scope DIY adapters and am happy with both.

 

[rdeloe]

40mm RodenstockWith the GFX and or the X2D it shows no movement. Why would it work on center but not allow movement?

Impressive camera in that it works with backs and mirrorless. Even the SL2.

Paul

What Victor said... The rear of the lens will be well inside the GFX mount, but far away from the sensor. On my Rotafoot with GFX on an F-Universalis, the rearmost edge of the lens would be 9.35mm past the inner face of the bellows. You'd have the ability to shift 2mm. I would expect tilt and swing to be severely limited.

 

[rdeloe]

Rob..... here is an image of my camera with the shortest lens I am going to use with it ( 40mm Rody HR W ). You can see how far the back is from the center of the tripod and this is the closest it will get. As lenses get longer the distance becomes more rearward adding even more weight. My 120mm Asph moves the rail backwards so that only 2cm of the rail is showing in the front. That produces a lot of stress on gears.

Victor B.

View attachment 215500

Thanks for the explanation. I'm not loving that aspect. I suppose you could attach an accessory long Arca-Swiss compatible rail on the bottom and shove it all forward, but that makes it klunky and heavier.

To be fair, they named it "Pico" because it's supposed to be smaller, lighter and more compact -- so it's not meant to be a universal solution.

 

[rdeloe]

No they aren't. The rear standard does move but the front standard is stationary. The advantage is that the rail is completely moveable in the tripod head unlike the Pico which has a very short mount plate attached to the rail. That way the weight, for the Actus, can be centered on the tripod head.

Victor B.

I do like this about the F-Universalis design -- I can have perfect balance simply by moving the rail back and forth.