best affordable lenses for CFV 100c for tech cam use?

[TimoK]

Thanks Rod, that's great advice. Yes I've been looking at their 2nd hand cambo WRS's online, my main concern with going with the CFV 100c over an X2D on say a cambo actus is using the back in bright sunlight and not being able to see the screen. I have the reflex binoculars for my arca swiss, is there something for cambo that could make the viewing experience better for the cfv 100c that you know of?

Have been weighing up if adapting the good hasselblad v lenses onto the x2d with a shift adaptor or using a cambo actus with x2d would be sufficient? as I like that the x2d has a bigger screen, great EVF and image stabilisation for when doing handhold shooting for other work/travel shots. From research it seems more restrictive if needing wide angle shift.

You can use digital backs like CFV 100c with Actus DB. https://www.cambo.com/en/actus-series/actus-db2-view-camera/
For X2D there's https://www.cambo.com/en/actus-series/actus-xcd-view-camera/

Compatibility: https://www.captureintegration.com/cambo-actus-lens-compatibility-table/

 

[Alkibiades]

the cheapest and still a good lens will be schneider apo digitar xl 47 mm- you can get this lens even cheaper, the latest Super Angulon MC 47 mm is the same lens as the Apo Digitar. I mean the Super Angulon (100°) not the Super Angulon XL 120°.
As the 100C back has a great live view good technical cameras are the cheaper solution like Linhof techno, Cambo actus, Arca M or universalis.

 

[4x5Australian]

My main concern with going with the CFV 100c over an X2D on say a Cambo Actus is using the back in bright sunlight and not being able to see the screen.

I often use my Phase One IQ4-150 in bright light and have had no trouble seeing the image on the LCD screen. If necessary, I shade the screen with my body or hand.
Anticipating beforehand that I might have trouble seeing the IQ4 screen in bright light, I bought the pricey Cambo screen magnifier, which is designed to enshroud the screen, but it's still in its box. The screen on the CFV100c has the advantage of being tiltable, which I think should allow the user to minimise any reflections.

I have the reflex binoculars for my Arca-Swiss, is there something for Cambo that could make the viewing experience better for the CFV 100c that you know of?

Yes, I know of two optical viewfinder options for the Cambo WRS cameras:
Cambo offers a ground-glass and frame (WDS-619) to which you add either a non-reflex flexible viewfinder (WDS-616) or the non-reflex rigid but shiftable viewfinder (WDS-630).
Instead, I prefer the Hasselblad gridded ground-glass and adapter made for the Hasselblad SWC camera, to which you then add a Hasselblad reflex viewfinder of your choice. I use mine to scope the first composition on a subject and ensure the lens I've just mounted is the right focal length (before adding the IQ4) and then use the 10x10mm grid to align the camera accurately, especially for elevation views. I enjoy using the optical viewfinder, in part because it lets me see the subject directly through the lens first, magnified, instead of only through the electronic box.

Have been weighing up if adapting the good Hasselblad V lenses onto the x2d with a shift adaptor or using a Cambo Actus with x2d would be sufficient? as I like that the x2d has a bigger screen, great EVF and image stabilisation for when doing handhold shooting for other work/travel shots. From research it seems more restrictive if needing wide angle shift.

I tried the Hasselblad CF40mm and CFi50mm on my Fujifilm GFX 50R with a shift adapter and found the combinations bulky, heavy and clunky, and their performance when shifted unimpressive.

The x2d is designed for hand-held photography. Yes, as you have read, the depth to the sensor will restrict your choice of wide-angle lenses.

In contrast, the CFV 100c is ideal for architectural photography and has arrived just in time for you. It will not limit your choice of wide-angle lenses.

Returning to the choice of Cambo WRS or Cambo Actus, my strong preference for the WRS comes after owning and shooting architecture on 4x5 film with both the film version Cambo Wide DS (WDS), the predecessor of the WRS, and an Arca-Swiss F-Metric with optional Orbix Micrometrics geared front tilt. I really like both cameras, but for wide-angle photography, the rigid pancake designs of the WDS and WRS cameras win for accuracy and dependable parallelism of lens and film/sensor, especially after carrying the camera on the tripod over my shoulder through crowded urban environments, and for simplicity of operation.

 

[Kipoz]

Looking into the Hasselblad cfv 100c, what lenses will resolve the 100 mp?
I currently have an arca swiss classic 6x9 shooting film with a set of the non digital lenses some schneider and some nikkor but I believe these won't be up to par.

From my research Rodenstock Apo Sironar Digital lenses seem to be the most affordable on ebay? hoping to spend under $4k USD a lens for architecture work.

Also how does the copal shutter work with the digital back? do you then have to use digital backs electronic shutter? what are the downfalls vs getting a lens with electronic shutter built in.


Thanks!

Hi @Tashat
I have some equipment for sale that might interest you.
Let me know if interested.
Link :

FS : CAMBO WRS + 55mm Rodenstock Digital + Back plate Phase One IQ3, 4 (P+, IQ1, 2, 3)

Hello everyone, Still for sale, low price for the EU preferably. 3000€ + delivery I am selling my medium format technical camera, for digital back and medium format film back 6X6, 6X7, 6X9, due to duplication. It is in superb condition. The lot includes: - CAMBO WRS camera - Rodenstock...

www.getdpi.com

 

[Tashat]

You can use digital backs like CFV 100c with Actus DB. https://www.cambo.com/en/actus-series/actus-db2-view-camera/
For X2D there's https://www.cambo.com/en/actus-series/actus-xcd-view-camera/

Compatibility: https://www.captureintegration.com/cambo-actus-lens-compatibility-table/

Useful chart Thankyou!

 

[Tashat]

I often use my Phase One IQ4-150 in bright light and have had no trouble seeing the image on the LCD screen. If necessary, I shade the screen with my body or hand.
Anticipating beforehand that I might have trouble seeing the IQ4 screen in bright light, I bought the pricey Cambo screen magnifier, which is designed to enshroud the screen, but it's still in its box. The screen on the CFV100c has the advantage of being tiltable, which I think should allow the user to minimise any reflections.


Yes, I know of two optical viewfinder options for the Cambo WRS cameras:
Cambo offers a ground-glass and frame (WDS-619) to which you add either a non-reflex flexible viewfinder (WDS-616) or the non-reflex rigid but shiftable viewfinder (WDS-630).
Instead, I prefer the Hasselblad gridded ground-glass and adapter made for the Hasselblad SWC camera, to which you then add a Hasselblad reflex viewfinder of your choice. I use mine to scope the first composition on a subject and ensure the lens I've just mounted is the right focal length (before adding the IQ4) and then use the 10x10mm grid to align the camera accurately, especially for elevation views. I enjoy using the optical viewfinder, in part because it lets me see the subject directly through the lens first, magnified, instead of only through the electronic box.


I tried the Hasselblad CF40mm and CFi50mm on my Fujifilm GFX 50R with a shift adapter and found the combinations bulky, heavy and clunky, and their performance when shifted unimpressive.

The x2d is designed for hand-held photography. Yes, as you have read, the depth to the sensor will restrict your choice of wide-angle lenses.

In contrast, the CFV 100c is ideal for architectural photography and has arrived just in time for you. It will not limit your choice of wide-angle lenses.

Returning to the choice of Cambo WRS or Cambo Actus, my strong preference for the WRS comes after owning and shooting architecture on 4x5 film with both the film version Cambo Wide DS (WDS), the predecessor of the WRS, and an Arca-Swiss F-Metric with optional Orbix Micrometrics geared front tilt. I really like both cameras, but for wide-angle photography, the rigid pancake designs of the WDS and WRS cameras win for accuracy and dependable parallelism of lens and film/sensor, especially after carrying the camera on the tripod over my shoulder through crowded urban environments, and for simplicity of operation.

Thanks, that’s some really great information you’ve shared with me. I wonder if the Phase backs have a brighter screen. I’ve read a lot of reviews how hard it is to see the Cfv 100c screen in bright sunlight. I wonder if that cambo accessory for viewing the viewfinder would also work on it. Could be a game changer and the option of ground glass with a sliding back. I would ultimately like something portable, so seems like a great option.

How is the WRS for shooting mid to telephoto shots? as I am often in that range.

 

[anyone]

How is the WRS for shooting mid to telephoto shots? as I am often in that range.

The strengths of the pancake cameras are better shown with wideangles. For longer lenses you will either have long lens cones, or additional rear spacers, or both. Because of this, I have the Linhof Techno for my long tech lenses.

 

[Whisp3r]

How is the WRS for shooting mid to telephoto shots? as I am often in that range.

The strengths of the pancake cameras are better shown with wideangles. For longer lenses you will either have long lens cones, or additional rear spacers, or both. Because of this, I have the Linhof Techno for my long tech lenses.

Regarding long lenses, I found this on Arca USA's website (basically the same thing Thomas wrote):
"While R-Line cameras are designed and best suited for wide-angle photography, they can also accommodate longer lenses up to 210mm. For focal lengths exceeding 90mm, a specific lens spacer is required. This spacer is positioned between the camera back and the capture device, ensuring optimal lens performance. These spacers are unique to three focal length groups and are provided with R-lens mounting service. "

On the subject of screen visibility, if you plan on using an IQ-back (doesn't matter which one) then there seems to be a solution, I did a quick search and found the image you can see in attachment. I don't know how effective it is, maybe some users here on GetDPI have one?

 

[Alkibiades]

The strengths of the pancake cameras are better shown with wideangles. For longer lenses you will either have long lens cones, or additional rear spacers, or both. Because of this, I have the Linhof Techno for my long tech lenses.

You are absolutly right, traditional technical cameras like the techno, technika, m679, Arca Swiss m-2 or universalis ect.. are better for use with longer lenses. There are much smaller- you just mount the lens on a flat lensboard- the wrs or R mounted long lenses are huge, the spacer is needed, the systems are also not as stable at longer lenses as a solid technical camera. With WRS I need to be very carefull even with 90 mm lens, I get very often little blurred pictures when longer times are used. Also the mountig of the longer lenses are expensive. If you use the lens on techno or arca you pay nothing.

 

[4x5Australian]

Thanks, that’s some really great information you’ve shared with me.

Tasha, thank you; I'm trying to answer your questions fully. Obviously, in a public forum such as this one there will be a wide variety of different viewpoints expressed, some of them in direct contradiction to mine. We all have our own preferences. That's why seeing and trying out the gear yourself, in person, is valuable.

I wonder if the Phase backs have a brighter screen. I’ve read a lot of reviews how hard it is to see the CFV 100c screen in bright sunlight.

I've not seen the CFV 100c myself, so can't compare the two screens. Could the visibility of the image on the CFV 100c really be fundamentally inferior to the visibility on the IQ4? As for the reviews you've read, well, different people bring different expectations. Are these reviewers using it as a digital back on a technical camera? I suspect not. Most reviewers come from a DSLR background and are only accustomed to using a normal camera with an enclosed viewfinder, and anything less is a fail to them. The CFV 100c serves an altogether different purpose. There are a few forum members who are already using the CFV 100C as a digital back, so perhaps you can seek their comments. One forum friend who has just bought it to use as a digital back texted me a few days ago saying that he's finding it a joy to use.

I wonder if that Cambo accessory for viewing the viewfinder would also work on it.

Ok, I just found the Cambo CS-30 viewing loupe that I bought from Specular a few years ago. It has a high-quality Schneider magnifier lens that is almost 40mm in diameter. It's huge. At the other end, the inside of the open rectangular housing measures 68mm x 52mm. That end is placed over the LCD screen. The kit supplied contains a separate mounting frame that can be stuck onto the digital back, but it's not required; I would just hold it against the screen protector whilst focusing. I would cover the edge with some soft plastic tubing to protect the screen protector. This loupe was pricey, but it's high-quality.

Here is the product page on the Cambo website: CS-30 Loupe system - Cambo

How is the WRS for shooting mid to telephoto shots, as I am often in that range?

Absolutely fine up to 210mm. How long do you want to go?

My current digital lenses are the SK 28XL, RDK HR 32, SK 35XL, SK 43XL, SK 60XL, SK 100 and SK 120 Aspheric.

The SK Apo-Digitar 100 and Apo-Digitar 120 Aspheric can be mounted, depending on your preference, with either a long front barrel or with a short front barrel and a Cambo 48mm rear spacer. The rear spacer, being at the rear and much wider than the front barrels, enables maximum use of the lens's image circle. Which is exactly what I want for shooting architecture. This is where some others differ; they shoot landscape and don't require so much shift and don't want to have to put the rear spacer on and take it off. That's why Cambo offers a choice.

I love my Cambo 48mm rear spacer because it gives me the rise/fall and lateral shift I want from my lenses, whilst also keeping the lens itself small, which makes packing the lens into a camera backpack with other lenses easier. It's very rigid and on the kitchen scale weighs just 202g.

I've used the SK Apo-Digitar 100 and Apo-Digitar 120 Aspheric on only a few occasions each since mounting them recently but have not experienced any problems with vibration. The images were all sharp. I try to not have to photograph architecture with longer focal lengths in windy weather. If there are vibration issues due to wind, keep in mind that the problem would be a lot worse with a traditional view camera with a bellows that becomes a sail in the wind. At least with a rigid pancake camera and rear spacer one can drape something over it to dampen vibration without collapsing a bellows. The long focal length lenses themselves are tiny and are still compact when attached to the WDS mounting plate and focus helicoid.

In the near future I will be mounting and testing a 150mm lens and 200mm lens using spare mounts and focus helicoids. Those lenses require two 48mm spacers. To avoid mounting the IQ4 on the end of two 48mm rear spacers I have bought a 48mm front spacer for the lens side, which will distribute the weight more evenly.

Yes, a camera employing a rail and bellows can mount a long lens more easily using a standard lens board. I still have my Arca-Swiss F-Metric 4x5 with Orbix geared front tilt for occasional use with really long lenses such as my SK Apo-Tele-Xenar 5.6/400mm. But I can't walk around carrying two cameras. My WRS is far more compact, far more robust, and is far faster and easier to use, and handles lenses to 210mm. And I get the accuracy and guaranteed parallelism of lens and sensor that allows wide angle to normal to longer focal length lenses to be used quickly and with reliably sharp results across the image.

Rod

 

[rdeloe]

Thanks, that’s some really great information you’ve shared with me. I wonder if the Phase backs have a brighter screen. I’ve read a lot of reviews how hard it is to see the Cfv 100c screen in bright sunlight. I wonder if that cambo accessory for viewing the viewfinder would also work on it. Could be a game changer and the option of ground glass with a sliding back. I would ultimately like something portable, so seems like a great option.

How is the WRS for shooting mid to telephoto shots? as I am often in that range.

I've never used a camera screen that can be read in bright sunlight. My 100S is a decent but not awesome screen. In bright sunlight, like this morning, it was really hard to use. Physically blocking the sunlight is the only solution. I should find my old dark cloth!

 

[anyone]

Well, you know, we 4x5” shooters have that always with us! Just kidding, a dark cloth for a backlit screen sounds really funny!

… but then again, a ground glass is little else than a backlit screen, maybe more of a back-projected screen…

 

[4x5Australian]

The comment by @rdeloe is fair enough.

Of course the image on an LCD screen becomes less visible when it's in direct bright sunlight. So, naturally, we shade it with our head, body or hand. It's easy to do and my previous comments made that clear. Of course I shade the IQ4 screen from direct bright sunlight.

I have never had even a single instance where I could not use the IQ4 screen to focus the image at 100%. And I have shot in bright sunlight lots of times.

The issue has never made me wish I was using a camera on the rear of the WRS instead of the digital back. The IQ4 is compact and easy to use. It's awesome.

If visibility were to become an issue for you, the Cambo CS-30 viewing loupe would be one easy way to view the screen both shaded and magnified.

Rod

 

[buildbot]

I've never used a camera screen that can be read in bright sunlight. My 100S is a decent but not awesome screen. In bright sunlight, like this morning, it was really hard to use. Physically blocking the sunlight is the only solution. I should find my old dark cloth!

Does the top screen on the XF/GFX/(Others probably) count? Those are pretty amazingly readable. I think they are both transflective displays?

 

[rdeloe]

Does the top screen on the XF/GFX/(Others probably) count? Those are pretty amazingly readable. I think they are both transflective displays?

I don't have issues with the top screen. Good clarification. It's the rear screen that struggles in bright sunlight. I think that's normal though, or at least I haven't used a camera that has a rear screen that is easy to view in bright, direct sunlight.

 

[Tashat]

You are absolutly right, traditional technical cameras like the techno, technika, m679, Arca Swiss m-2 or universalis ect.. are better for use with longer lenses. There are much smaller- you just mount the lens on a flat lensboard- the wrs or R mounted long lenses are huge, the spacer is needed, the systems are also not as stable at longer lenses as a solid technical camera. With WRS I need to be very carefull even with 90 mm lens, I get very often little blurred pictures when longer times are used. Also the mountig of the longer lenses are expensive. If you use the lens on techno or arca you pay nothing.

good advice, I think an arca universalis then may be a better option to be a better allrounder/ cost effective.

 

[Tashat]

Tasha, thank you; I'm trying to answer your questions fully. Obviously, in a public forum such as this one there will be a wide variety of different viewpoints expressed, some of them in direct contradiction to mine. We all have our own preferences. That's why seeing and trying out the gear yourself, in person, is valuable.


I've not seen the CFV 100c myself, so can't compare the two screens. Could the visibility of the image on the CFV 100c really be fundamentally inferior to the visibility on the IQ4? As for the reviews you've read, well, different people bring different expectations. Are these reviewers using it as a digital back on a technical camera? I suspect not. Most reviewers come from a DSLR background and are only accustomed to using a normal camera with an enclosed viewfinder, and anything less is a fail to them. The CFV 100c serves an altogether different purpose. There are a few forum members who are already using the CFV 100C as a digital back, so perhaps you can seek their comments. One forum friend who has just bought it to use as a digital back texted me a few days ago saying that he's finding it a joy to use.


Ok, I just found the Cambo CS-30 viewing loupe that I bought from Specular a few years ago. It has a high-quality Schneider magnifier lens that is almost 40mm in diameter. It's huge. At the other end, the inside of the open rectangular housing measures 68mm x 52mm. That end is placed over the LCD screen. The kit supplied contains a separate mounting frame that can be stuck onto the digital back, but it's not required; I would just hold it against the screen protector whilst focusing. I would cover the edge with some soft plastic tubing to protect the screen protector. This loupe was pricey, but it's high-quality.

Here is the product page on the Cambo website: CS-30 Loupe system - Cambo


Absolutely fine up to 210mm. How long do you want to go?

My current digital lenses are the SK 28XL, RDK HR 32, SK 35XL, SK 43XL, SK 60XL, SK 100 and SK 120 Aspheric.

The SK Apo-Digitar 100 and Apo-Digitar 120 Aspheric can be mounted, depending on your preference, with either a long front barrel or with a short front barrel and a Cambo 48mm rear spacer. The rear spacer, being at the rear and much wider than the front barrels, enables maximum use of the lens's image circle. Which is exactly what I want for shooting architecture. This is where some others differ; they shoot landscape and don't require so much shift and don't want to have to put the rear spacer on and take it off. That's why Cambo offers a choice.

I love my Cambo 48mm rear spacer because it gives me the rise/fall and lateral shift I want from my lenses, whilst also keeping the lens itself small, which makes packing the lens into a camera backpack with other lenses easier. It's very rigid and on the kitchen scale weighs just 202g.

I've used the SK Apo-Digitar 100 and Apo-Digitar 120 Aspheric on only a few occasions each since mounting them recently but have not experienced any problems with vibration. The images were all sharp. I try to not have to photograph architecture with longer focal lengths in windy weather. If there are vibration issues due to wind, keep in mind that the problem would be a lot worse with a traditional view camera with a bellows that becomes a sail in the wind. At least with a rigid pancake camera and rear spacer one can drape something over it to dampen vibration without collapsing a bellows. The long focal length lenses themselves are tiny and are still compact when attached to the WDS mounting plate and focus helicoid.

In the near future I will be mounting and testing a 150mm lens and 200mm lens using spare mounts and focus helicoids. Those lenses require two 48mm spacers. To avoid mounting the IQ4 on the end of two 48mm rear spacers I have bought a 48mm front spacer for the lens side, which will distribute the weight more evenly.

Yes, a camera employing a rail and bellows can mount a long lens more easily using a standard lens board. I still have my Arca-Swiss F-Metric 4x5 with Orbix geared front tilt for occasional use with really long lenses such as my SK Apo-Tele-Xenar 5.6/400mm. But I can't walk around carrying two cameras. My WRS is far more compact, far more robust, and is far faster and easier to use, and handles lenses to 210mm. And I get the accuracy and guaranteed parallelism of lens and sensor that allows wide angle to normal to longer focal length lenses to be used quickly and with reliably sharp results across the image.

Rod

Thanks Rod, I would say up to around 150mm would be the longest I'll need. Interesting about vibrations being worse with wind with a view camera. I definitely see the benefit of the WRS in terms of compactness and accuracy and love the look of the models with the wooden handles! I guess on a cost perspective getting each lens mounted may end up more than an arca swiss universalis with just lens boards?

 

[rdeloe]

Rod has convinced me that people who are exclusively or primarily shooting architecture and want a technical camera with a medium format back should get a 'pancake' style camera.

I think digital view cameras like the F-Universalis make more sense for people (like me) who want tilt and swing with every lens they can mount. If you put a medium format back of some kind on an F-Universalis, you have access to all kinds of wide angle lenses. If you use it with a GFX body or an X2D body, you're limited at the wide end.

We all thought the CFV 100C back would be the answer to our medium format back prayers, and it might still be, but if you're looking at that option, take note of the issues being discussed in other threads regarding lines that appear in the image when shifting. This is most unfortunate; hopefully there's a firmware or software solution soon.

Regarding Arca-Swiss lens boards, they're simple aluminum boards, but the F-Universalis and the M-Two are fussy about what boards you can use. The genuine Arca-Swiss boards are 1.54mm thick. Board for the older F-Metric do not work properly. The genuine modern Arca-Swiss boards are extremely expensive for what they are, so people often look to the Chinese boards on eBay. Those are a bit thinner (usually 1.49mm). Some of deeper recessed boards simply don't fit because the people who made them didn't have a format frame for an F-Universalis or M-Two on hand to test.

 

[Whisp3r]

I guess on a cost perspective getting each lens mounted may end up more than an arca swiss universalis with just lens boards?

On mounting lenses on an Arca R-type camera: I have limited expertise, but I think it depends on the lens you're trying to mount. For example: I want to use a Pentax A 645 75mm lens with my Arca RM3di, so I bought a used 645 lens adapter manufactured by Arca. The lens itself cost me €300 and the lens adapter cost me €200. On the other hand, I bought a Schneider 35XL mounted on a Linhof board. This lens needs to be refitted to R-mount, and I prefer to let Arca handle this for me, which will cost me €870. The lens itself cost me €1650. I assume Cambo and Alpa have similar options for the examples I described here.

 

[4x5Australian]

Thanks Rod, I would say up to around 150mm would be the longest I'll need. Interesting about vibrations being worse with wind with a view camera. I definitely see the benefit of the WRS in terms of compactness and accuracy and love the look of the models with the wooden handles! I guess on a cost perspective getting each lens mounted may end up more than an arca swiss universalis with just lens boards?

Cambo can mount a 150mm lens or others you provide onto the WRS mount. Cambo calls that service a retrofit.

On Cambo's website the SK 150mm is listed under the discontinued Schneider lenses here: Legacy Schneider Copal Lens Panels - Cambo

Note that additional focal lengths to those shown on that page, such as the Apo-Digitar 5.6/100mm that I supplied, can also be mounted onto the WRS.

Note also that the SK 100mm, 120mm, 150mm and 180mm lenses can all be mounted using a single 48mm rear spacer. Cambo will discount the mounting fee accordingly, as it did for me when I had a second long lens mounted.

Having the spacer as a separate item ensures maximum use of the image circles and also makes the lenses themselves smaller to carry in a backpack. To save space further, the single 48mm rear spacer can be carried in an outside pocket, leaving more room inside.

I want to correct a previous statement in which I said the 150mm and 180mm lenses require two 48mm spacers. As you can see from the pictures on that Cambo page linked above, Cambo mounts them using just one 48mm rear spacer plus different lengths of a cylindrical barrel section on the WRS mount base portion. (When I made that statement, I was fresh from calculating that I can adapt an Apo-Symmar 5.6/150mm and normal SK helical focuser I already own from a 1990s Cambo Wide 150 using some spare mount parts plus my existing 48mm rear spacer and 48mm front spacer.)

Yes, having Cambo mount each lens onto the WRS mount is more costly than you sourcing flat lens boards for a bellows camera and doing the job yourself. However, for me there is no question which camera I'd prefer to use for years and years in the sort of situations in which I photograph architecture. Obviously, the questions to consider include: How many and which lenses can I purchase already mounted on the used market or from dealer shelves? And how many focal lengths do I really need?

To the first, I can confirm that all of my lenses were bought used and more than half of them were already mounted in the WRS or WTS mount. That includes the 28XL, 35XL, 43XL, 47XL and 60XL. In each instance, the cost was not a lot more than a bare unmounted lens.

To the second question, I suspect that in many instances it is the thought of the higher cost of mounting a lens that drives a newcomer to a bellows type camera, yet they often end up carrying and using only three lenses on it anyway and, in return, must forevermore forego the many advantages of the WRS pancake style. It seems a false economy.