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C1 for iPad announces tethering for all currently supported cameras (EXCEPT PHASE ONE)

Paul2660

Well-known member
Can anyone explain this? Why would C1 for iPad still not support a tethered solution for the IQ backs. Today they apparently announced tethering for all other cameras, currently supported by C1 Pro, except P1 backs. I ran this by my dealer today, but still don't understand why Phase One/C1 can't work this out. They also did not appear to give any timeline for supporting the IQ4/IQ3 (tethered to C1 for iPad)

I am tired of hearing C1 and Phase One are separate companies. Net, they are still owned by the same private EQ firm, (unless that firm recently sold off C1), Phase One only has one software solution that works with their higher end backs, C1. Sure you can try to use LR/ACR, but the end result is less than stellar, and LR/ACR do not support the frame averaging, or dual exposure solutions from the IQ4 and on both IQ4 and IQ3, LR/ACR can't handle any type of shadow push without excessive noise (a horrible red tint). Revenue from Phase One hardware sales and C1 software sales are both going to the same company, and it would greatly benefit P1 to get the IQ3 and 4 working tethered to a M1 iPad.

The Phase One, Cascable solution to me is just not the best or even close to the best fix for getting a Live View screen on a high end mobile device. Even with the latest firmware on the IQ4 I don't find this anywhere as fast/clean and solid as a tethered solution.

What are others thoughts on this subject.

Paul
 

Ray Harrison

Well-known member
Can anyone explain this? Why would C1 for iPad still not support a tethered solution for the IQ backs. Today they apparently announced tethering for all other cameras, currently supported by C1 Pro, except P1 backs. I ran this by my dealer today, but still don't understand why Phase One/C1 can't work this out. They also did not appear to give any timeline for supporting the IQ4/IQ3 (tethered to C1 for iPad)

I am tired of hearing C1 and Phase One are separate companies. Net, they are still owned by the same private EQ firm, (unless that firm recently sold off C1), Phase One only has one software solution that works with their higher end backs, C1. Sure you can try to use LR/ACR, but the end result is less than stellar, and LR/ACR do not support the frame averaging, or dual exposure solutions from the IQ4 and on both IQ4 and IQ3, LR/ACR can't handle any type of shadow push without excessive noise (a horrible red tint). Revenue from Phase One hardware sales and C1 software sales are both going to the same company, and it would greatly benefit P1 to get the IQ3 and 4 working tethered to a M1 iPad.

The Phase One, Cascable solution to me is just not the best or even close to the best fix for getting a Live View screen on a high end mobile device. Even with the latest firmware on the IQ4 I don't find this anywhere as fast/clean and solid as a tethered solution.

What are others thoughts on this subject.

Paul
My understanding is that the current limitation is iPadOS related and based on how the Phase backs and Capture One communicate. Apparently that method is not supported on iPadOS. There’s some hope that maybe there’s an opportunity to address it with the upcoming version.
 

Paul Spinnler

Active member
No, I mailed with the programmer team lead of the mobile iPad; it has just to do with priorities. All is technically possible, but they focus on the broader market first. Every camera implementation takes time as it is not a 1:1 copy paste exercise from the main source code and they have limited bandwith.

They are porting the whole tethering piece step by step, ie camera system by camera system - and first are the big brands and P1, etc. comes last ...

Also camera control is not yet implemented. You cannot, for example, control shutter, aperture, etc. which to me would be crucial ... atm for me also useless.

The truth is digital back users make up a small portion of the market and although we might feel annoyed at that the economic realities will dictate that we will be now always be last from the view of C1 - at this stage I lost hope that C1 implements any XT specific features (e.g. auto LCC, etc.).

It is better to get 5000 subscriptions from Nikon users than 500 from digital back users ...
 

Ray Harrison

Well-known member
No, I spoke with the programmer team lead of the mobile iPad; it has just to do with priorities. All is technically possible, but they focus on the broader market first. Every camera implementation takes time as it is not a 1:1 copy past exercise from the main source code and they have limited bandwith.

They are porting the whole tethering piece step by step, ie camera system by camera system - and first are the big brands and P1, etc. comes last ...

Also camera control is not yet implemented. You cannot, for example, control shutter, aperture, etc. which to me would be crucial ... atm for me also useless.
That makes more sense. Just reporting what I’ve heard from the team on a couple of different threads.
 

Paul Spinnler

Active member
I think it will come in a few weeks, but hopefully not months. But then there's the biggie in the room which is camera control which will also take a while - I mean imagine each camera system is a bit different and you need to at a low level program the application in a way where as end users you never see a hiccup no matter what camera you attach. This is not an easy task ... and then it is just rational to just first do Nikon, Canon, Fuji, etc. before you make P1 users happy ...
 

tcdeveau

Well-known member
I saw the email from Capture One this morning, got a little excited, and then went “wait this is probably too good to be true for IQ users.” Sorry to hear that it is indeed the case.

I can get along without it, but I’d definitely love the ability to tether an iPad for live view with the IQ4

to be fair, I haven’t tried cascable yet (or updated the back to the latest FW), but it doesn’t sound like the plug-n-play type solution I’m looking for. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong anyone out there that is using it in the field.

It will come when it comes….or it won’t….who knows. Either way I’m not holding my breath as I bought my back for what it does and not what it could do (I mean manual metadata entry for tech cams and some sort of auto LCC functionality with the “infinity” platform would be no brainers but those don’t seem to be coming either)
 

hausens

Member
Is it possible that the ipad os has limitations to implementing the driver? Unlike IQ4, all the other back P1 produced don't have a full operating system or universal file transfer protocol such as MTP or PTP. They have to rely on the proprietary protocol which comes with a driver. My guess is it's not viable for ios?
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
Don’t forget. Cascable somehow got it to work. At least it will connect and transfer files and display liveview albeit at a very slow rate.
Paul
 

Paul Spinnler

Active member
It will work - just takes time. They had publicly stated that with the latest changes to iPad OS tethering etc. will be possible. Also the M1 chip in the Macbook Air is fantastic for tethering and there is no indication to believe that given what has been stated and what we know the hardware is capable of that we won't have a superb tethering solution in the iPad Pro in the future.

It is just a lot of programming work to tether a gazillion different devices and Cascable has also had a much longer development runway ... C1 mobile just launched a few weeks ago ... there are many open items and especially camera control and the ICC profile engine will also need to be ported at one point ...
 
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Paul2660

Well-known member
My main impression is that P1 felt for some reason that the solution for most if not all users would just be to tether to a MacBook/Intel laptop and be done with it. Thus they provided USB-C at launch. That was 2018, almost 4 years ago. It took about 2 years? for Cascable to come up with a solution, so for two years or more everyone or at least many felt that Capture Pilot would be upgraded to support the IQ4. The M1 platform has huge performance advantages over anything Apple has released in the past, (for once what they claimed was true). The M1 iPad has plenty of power to run a simple tethering solution and C1 has always been a solid tethering solution on intel/Mac in the past. So I hope it does come out sooner than later. The fixed LCD on a P1 back is very limiting for many photographic needs, and has extremely poor visibility in moderate sunlight and is pretty worthless in bright light, requiring a hood to use. I guess time will tell but I don't expect it in 2022. or 1/2 of 2023.

Paul
 

Ray Harrison

Well-known member
...
to be fair, I haven’t tried cascable yet (or updated the back to the latest FW), but it doesn’t sound like the plug-n-play type solution I’m looking for. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong anyone out there that is using it in the field.
...
I actually like Cascable more than others, I think, and do use it in the field, mostly over ethernet, though WiFi has gotten a bit better. While it's certainly not faster than Capture Pilot shooting over a JPEG preview over WiFi, I actually appreciate that I can transfer over the raw file and can open it up in Capture One / iPad. I appreciate exposure simulation, live focus peaking, and things like that. I like the interface better. Live view performance isn't the greatest but it beats staring at a tiny screen and I come from a CCD back :) . For me, it works for what I do and I feel I can get the critical focus I need. If they're going to continue investing in it, I'd like to see performance increases, access to other IQ4 features (DE+, Frame Averaging, etc), more flexible magnification options and so forth. It's got potential but the work on it is frustratingly slow (not sure if that's because they need more firmware updates, target market is small (and they're a small company), Phase isn't coughing up the cash for them to do the work or what...).
 

Paul Spinnler

Active member
My main impression is that P1 felt for some reason that the solution for most if not all users would just be to tether to a MacBook/Intel laptop and be done with it. Thus they provided USB-C at launch. That was 2018, almost 4 years ago. It took about 2 years? for Cascable to come up with a solution, so for two years or more everyone or at least many felt that Capture Pilot would be upgraded to support the IQ4. The M1 platform has huge performance advantages over anything Apple has released in the past, (for once what they claimed was true). The M1 iPad has plenty of power to run a simple tethering solution and C1 has always been a solid tethering solution on intel/Mac in the past. So I hope it does come out sooner than later. The fixed LCD on a P1 back is very limiting for many photographic needs, and has extremely poor visibility in moderate sunlight and is pretty worthless in bright light, requiring a hood to use. I guess time will tell but I don't expect it in 2022. or 1/2 of 2023.

Paul
Is there a good carrying + light shade solution for the iPad Pro?
 

BFD

Active member
Can anyone explain this? Why would C1 for iPad still not support a tethered solution for the IQ backs. Today they apparently announced tethering for all other cameras, currently supported by C1 Pro, except P1 backs. I ran this by my dealer today, but still don't understand why Phase One/C1 can't work this out. They also did not appear to give any timeline for supporting the IQ4/IQ3 (tethered to C1 for iPad)

I am tired of hearing C1 and Phase One are separate companies. Net, they are still owned by the same private EQ firm, (unless that firm recently sold off C1), Phase One only has one software solution that works with their higher end backs, C1. Sure you can try to use LR/ACR, but the end result is less than stellar, and LR/ACR do not support the frame averaging, or dual exposure solutions from the IQ4 and on both IQ4 and IQ3, LR/ACR can't handle any type of shadow push without excessive noise (a horrible red tint). Revenue from Phase One hardware sales and C1 software sales are both going to the same company, and it would greatly benefit P1 to get the IQ3 and 4 working tethered to a M1 iPad.

The Phase One, Cascable solution to me is just not the best or even close to the best fix for getting a Live View screen on a high end mobile device. Even with the latest firmware on the IQ4 I don't find this anywhere as fast/clean and solid as a tethered solution.

What are others thoughts on this subject.

Paul
This furthers my theory that Phase One botched the hardware in the IQ4 so bad that they cannot get it to work. If there any other feasible reasons on why they cannot get features to work on the IQ4 in 4 years that worked great on the IQ3, I would love to hear. They spent so much R&D on putting a "computer with Capture One" in the back that they forgot it also had to be a useful photography tool. It's like building an engine with turbos but forgetting to put the turbines in the turbos and then spending the next 4 years figuring out how to make it work.
 

Paul Spinnler

Active member
It has nothing to do with the hardware in this case. Implementing tethering for any camera is different as there are synchronisation protocols at work which need to be implemented. You cannot port 1:1 the code from C1 to iPad - it requires adjustments and testing. This takes time. Programmers cost money and C1 needs to generate subscriptions which last because users start using the iPad.

It is logical that they start by implementing Nikon, Canon, etc. C1 is not P1 anymore - their goal is to make money as fast as possible. Wasting precious developer time on getting digital back support right is not the first thing to do…

One needs to acknowledge that P1 users form a very tiny part of the market.
 

Paul2660

Well-known member
It is ironic that the IQ4 boots with the Capture One logo. I had hoped that P1 would allow the customer custom image to come back like the 3100 allowed.
Paul
 
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med

Active member
I just want my post exposure focus mask back! It is egregious that it hasn’t made it into a feature release yet after 4 years, but if I could get it while tethering to an iPad that would be workable to me.
 

BFD

Active member
It has nothing to do with the hardware in this case. Implementing tethering for any camera is different as there are synchronisation protocols at work which need to be implemented. You cannot port 1:1 the code from C1 to iPad - it requires adjustments and testing. This takes time. Programmers cost money and C1 needs to generate subscriptions which last because users start using the iPad.

It is logical that they start by implementing Nikon, Canon, etc. C1 is not P1 anymore - their goal is to make money as fast as possible. Wasting precious developer time on getting digital back support right is not the first thing to do…

One needs to acknowledge that P1 users form a very tiny part of the market.
Four. Focking. Years. I would beg to differ on it not being hardware related. Pretty sure my high school kid could have figured it out in that time frame if it was just software coding. There's an issue—most likely hardware related because software related could have been figured out by now. Also, they've pretty much promised many features both publicly and through privileged channels only for it to never come to fruition. I bet when the IQ5 comes out, it will all magically work.
 

Paul Spinnler

Active member
There's barely any investment into the platform anymore. Phase One was sold within that time period. It is now owned by a new PE firm which basically looked at all the businesses and changed the capital allocation. P1 back users are being milked and all R&D capacity flows into geospatial, drones, repro. Go check their youtube - they do some crazy drone stuff. It is just that the photo guys within the business have been relegated to third fiddle ... it is business.

IQ4 150 works for most well and atm there's not enough upside to throw engineering time into it except the odd firmware upgrade.

They sell only a few thousand backs a year via dealers who also take a cut with most of it being upgrades.

Fully understandable from the CEO's standpoint to move all the excess capital into B2B.

I think with IQ5 they might share components from the drone unit and then we might have more performing I/O options. But without successor sensor to Sony's 54x40mm 150 megapixel monster we will have to wait ...

I mean remember the 80mm MKII? I asked my dealer how many he sold last year (2, one to me) - is one of the biggest dealers in Germany. Seeing this, why would they invest anymore R&D in say a revision of the 55mm which is their worst optic in the XF line? Precisely, no reason.

The reason why the evolution stopped is because some people looked at the business unit and said we stop putting money into it and focus on where the big bucks are ... selling repro stations for 70k, for example ... or dual camera arrays for aerial applications. Don't want to know the list price, but wouldn't be surprised if it is near 200k.
 
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