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Choice to make or 645z vs. H5D-40

torger

New member
Like all reviews take it with a grain of salt. At the beginning he says:
The rub is that as the 645z gains in popularity (and this article will likely play a role), this set the tone of the article.
If one reads the article it becomes pretty clear that with his shooting style and printing style the 645z is the current ideal. He never shoots tethered, he never uses flash, he often shoots hand-held and a lot of unplanned "capture the moment" type of shots, and if you know Michael from before you know he loves Adobe Lightroom.

So I don't think the review is dishonestly biased in any way, but each reader must of course factor in his or her own way to shoot and print.
 

Landscapelover

Senior Subscriber Member
I gave a comment because the OP posted "..If anyone, who tried both of this cameras help me and make my doubts go away, i would be extremely thankful. Cmon, wise guys, really desperate of help" . I've been using the H4D-40 for years and just bought the 645Z so I've just wanted to share my opinion. I don't think anyone want to drop $10, 000+ for just a few reviews. In real life, sky is only a limit for either one of these systems. Galen Rowell would be thrilled!

I don't shoot people or take VDO, only landscape photography so I can't comment about skin tone etc. The LS and tethering, of course, would put the 645Z out of the picture for a serious studio system. I think the OP has already known about these issues.

If money is not an issue, either Phase one or Hasselblad (plus Leica S/S2 with H adapter) may be better choices. I just want to express that the 645Z is damn good for landscape photography at a much lower cost with high ISO sensor. However, if you want the best landscape photography, drop few more 10K's and get the tech camera with MFDB.

My comment may be in a wrong place because I am only an amateur, just do landscape photography for the love of it but have never made a penny out of it!
 
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Shashin

Well-known member
I've never even seen a Pentax 645z in person, so have absolutely no opinions on it, but if you shoot studio, the lack of tether kills the option for me 100%... (Honestly I don't know what Pentax is thinking not coming out with tether when the camera was announced.)
Actually, you can wirelessly tether the 645Z. Not only was this available for the 645D, Pentax also announced this for the 645Z--it was one of the selling points of the Z. Apparently, they were thinking it was a good idea.
 

Shashin

Well-known member
So, the question is - is hassy really considerably sharper and provides beter IQ than 645z?
I would say not in any meaningful way or at least it is a bit of a toss up depending (can't separate noise from sharpness). This might help:

Review: The Pentax 645Z, part II: compared to the 645D, Nikon D800E and Hasselblad CFV-39

What I would do is determine the focal lengths you need and look for the reviews of those lenses. Some Pentax lenses are dogs--the 45mm prime is a prime example. But many are good and some are really great. So far, the new DFA lenses (25mm, 28-45mm, 55mm, and 90mm) seem really good and two of them offer optical stabilization. The older lenses can be outstanding as well--the 120mm Macro and 35mm lenses come to mind as well as the 300mm f/4.

I think which ever you choose, you will have an excellent camera. Personally, I would choose based on the focal lengths of the optics to see if they match your work. One thing I liked is that Pentax had a real normal prime lens, 55mm.
 

Jay Emm

New member
>The two functional advantages it provides are True Focus APL...and high sync speed when using lighting (especially outdoors).

SPOT ON - True Focus is magic, there's nothing like it on the market. I nail focus on EVERY shot thanks to this clever technology (right down to the eyelash on a re-composed image, honestly it's the best thing about the camera for me). I think Hasselblad have done a lousy job in marketing this, it's such a wonderful point-of-difference, something that absolutely adds value.
 

kknd

New member
First of all, i`d like to thank everyone who found a minute and shared his very own expirience. I`v got a plenty of information that is really helpful.
Unfortunately, there`s absolutley no way to find both these cameras and test it myself. I think there ain`t one at maybe 1000 km range from my location. That`s why your help is invaluable.
So lets sum up a little. According to your answers and advices, pros and cons that important for me are:

Hassy
+ noticably sharper lenses
+ smooth tethering
+ true focus
+ sync up to 1/800

- iso range much narrower
- top shutter speed 1/800 (not sure if it`s a drawback, but i sometimes use 1/2000-1/4000 outdoors)

Pentax:
+ wild iso range
+ same sensor that is in twice more expensive h5d-50c
+ video
+ weather sealing

- not so good lenses
- tethering is wireless only and wierd
- 1/125 sync speed
- leaf shutter only avaliable on two old lenses

Have i got it right?
 
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kknd

New member
I think which ever you choose, you will have an excellent camera. Personally, I would choose based on the focal lengths of the optics to see if they match your work. One thing I liked is that Pentax had a real normal prime lens, 55mm.
Thanks for advise. I wasn`t thinking of it that way - my preffered lens is 70-200 and i use it in 80% of my work.
 

kknd

New member
I gave a comment because the OP posted "..If anyone, who tried both of this cameras help me and make my doubts go away, i would be extremely thankful. Cmon, wise guys, really desperate of help" . I've been using the H4D-40 for years and just bought the 645Z so I've just wanted to share my opinion. I don't think anyone want to drop $10, 000+ for just a few reviews. In real life, sky is only a limit for either one of these systems. Galen Rowell would be thrilled!

I don't shoot people or take VDO, only landscape photography so I can't comment about skin tone etc. The LS and tethering, of course, would put the 645Z out of the picture for a serious studio system. I think the OP has already known about these issues.

If money is not an issue, either Phase one or Hasselblad (plus Leica S/S2 with H adapter) may be better choices. I just want to express that the 645Z is damn good for landscape photography at a much lower cost with high ISO sensor. However, if you want the best landscape photography, drop few more 10K's and get the tech camera with MFDB.

My comment may be in a wrong place because I am only an amateur, just do landscape photography for the love of it but have never made a penny out of it!
Thanks a lot for your opinion. Price does matter, but i`m capped by $35,000, so Phase is not an option, and 645 loooks really nice with it`s pros and price tag.
 

kknd

New member
Hi KKND,
I had the h4d-40 since it's debut and I can say it was a perfect camera, balanced and precise, the autofocus is very good too, plus it has true focus, the lens are high quality too...
NEVER the camera "break down" in studio nor in location nor in mountains etc...
Two months ago I've changed to the new H5D-50c that has the same CMOS sensor of Pentax... to me it's a true improvement of the performance of my H system lens/accessory,
the sensor enable photography in situation where before was restricted to flash or tripod with long exposure... the quality is still at the top...
I look at Pentax seriously especially for the price.. but on the lens / accessory side to me is not interesting... it's like buying a sport car with wooden wheels...
Finally, If You can afford the 50c is the right choice, maybe starting with a single lens for the first month, then You can buy all the H lens Your work needs month by month or day by day You will not be disappointed !
Hi! thanks for the answer. Yes, i was thinking about 50c, but you know it`s almost 3 times more expensive than 645z. And i`m asking myself - does it really worth it?
And by the way, wierd thing. Same sensor, but hassy allows top iso speed 6400. What`s the point? Pentax made it work at 12800, and work well...
 

kknd

New member
Not sure where you got the information that a Hasselblad H5D/40 is going to break-down twice a month.
I`m not sure about the quality of that information, so thanks a lot for clearing my mistaken impressions :)
I do use studio lighting a lot, but also a do a lot of outdoors and indoors shootings with natural lighting. So that`s a big question for me, would hassy perform good enough when it`s taken away from the paradise and face cruel real world. I think there`s no question that pentax will do better, mostly thanks to its sensor.
You right, that`s a question of the way i`m going to use the camera, and the only person who have the answer is me.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
Actually, you can wirelessly tether the 645Z. Not only was this available for the 645D, Pentax also announced this for the 645Z--it was one of the selling points of the Z. Apparently, they were thinking it was a good idea.
Was it a good idea?
 

fotografz

Well-known member
First of all, i`d like to thank everyone who found a minute and shared his very own expirience. I`v got a plenty of information that is really helpful.
Unfortunately, there`s absolutley no way to find both these cameras and test it myself. I think there ain`t one at maybe 1000 km range from my location. That`s why your help is invaluable.
So lets sum up a little. According to your answers and advices, pros and cons that important for me are:

Hassy
+ noticably sharper lenses
+ smooth tethering
+ true focus
+ sync up to 1/800

- iso range much narrower
- top shutter speed 1/800 (not sure if it`s a drawback, but i sometimes use 1/2000-1/4000 outdoors)

Pentax:
+ wild iso range
+ same sensor that is in twice more expensive h5d-50c
+ video
+ weather sealing

- not so good lenses
- tethering is wireless only and wierd
- 1/125 sync speed
- leaf shutter only avaliable on two old lenses

Have i got it right?
Do not forget service/dealer support, and rental availability when traveling or on location. No need to buy every single lens or accessory you may need in future. Rent it (they ship almost anywhere)

Amount of accessories can be part of your comparison, when I worked with the H camera I used the waist-level finder sometimes, and the HTS/1.5 a fair amount.

Being a focal plane camera the Pentax is at a disadvantage when working with lighting, but I believe you can adapt other lenses to the Pentax such as the Zeiss V lenses including the FE versions like the 110/2 and 50/2.8.

While there are those that prefer the look and feel of CCD sensors, you do not seem to be one of them ... preferring specs like high ISO ... so just go with what you prefer. That it is less expensive is just a bonus.

- Marc
 

Landscapelover

Senior Subscriber Member
Thanks a lot for your opinion. Price does matter, but i`m capped by $35,000, so Phase is not an option, and 645 loooks really nice with it`s pros and price tag.
I can only share my experience with you regarding landscape photography, the only thing I do.
I've had almost all Hasselblad H lenses and they are remarkable (may favorites - HCD 28, 35-90, 100mm and 300mm). I also love my H4D-40. To be honest, compared to the Phase One DF+, I like the Hasselblad body way much more.
The decision will finally come to the budget. The Pentax 645Z plus lenses will probably cost you $15, 000. If your budget is $35, 000, you can easily get the Hasselblad. Another plus for the Hasselblad is that you can use the Hasselblad lenses with the Leica S/H adapter. In the future, when you've had more budget, you may decide to get the LEICA S/S2 and a few Leica lenses. Some of them are the best! The adapter is top-notch. For unknown reason, my 35-90mm lens works better on Leica than the H4D-40. The price of the Leica S/S2 body now is also very attractive. I've never experienced a better body.
Good luck for your decision and please update us what you choose.

Pramote
 
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fotografz

Well-known member
Well if it`s stable and fast, so why not? In some way it can be more handy to control camera and check out images by ipad.

Is it stable and fast? Anyone actually use this and can report on it?

How does it work? Does it require a Wifi memory card?

Tethered shooting is transferring the actual RAW image for close inspection while shooting ... a critical function for many studio applications where speed is part of the process.

Hasselblad has their own version of wireless but it requires being tethered to a computer which then sends the images to a smart device for compositional approvals by clients, so it isn't wireless capture, just wireless sharing.

Personally, I never had much need for all these e-bells and whistles ... All I ever cared about was the best optics on a highly stable body that I could plug and play tether to a computer. Prior it was the H system, and now it is the S system.

Three words say it all ... Lenses, Lenses, Lenses.

Different strokes for different folks.

- Marc
 

kknd

New member
While there are those that prefer the look and feel of CCD sensors, you do not seem to be one of them ... preferring specs like high ISO ... so just go with what you prefer. That it is less expensive is just a bonus.

- Marc
I have no expirience with "CCD look and feel", so for me it`s some kind of abstraction, for now at least. And high ISO - that`s the thing i can imagine :)

Is it stable and fast? Anyone actually use this and can report on it?

How does it work? Does it require a Wifi memory card?

..........

Three words say it all ... Lenses, Lenses, Lenses.

Different strokes for different folks.

- Marc
As long as i know - yes, it requires wi-fi card, so it`s unlikely to be fast and stable.

I agree with you, when talking about overall look and feel. But when it comes to some commercial shooting, technical stuff matters. And that`s also a sensor responsible for that, not lenses only. Low amount of noise when shooting with low natural light is important for me, and there`s no help that lens could provide in many cases.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I have no experience with "CCD look and feel", so for me it`s some kind of abstraction, for now at least. And high ISO - that`s the thing i can imagine :



As long as i know - yes, it requires wi-fi card, so it`s unlikely to be fast and stable.

I agree with you, when talking about overall look and feel. But when it comes to some commercial shooting, technical stuff matters. And that`s also a sensor responsible for that, not lenses only. Low amount of noise when shooting with low natural light is important for me, and there`s no help that lens could provide in many cases.
Likewise, low light ability will still be diminished by optics ... ISO 6400 doesn't make the lens better;)

IMO, the investment is in lenses, and while one camera may be better than the next, it is always a temporary thing until the others catch up. Lenses are much longer term.

Anyway, you have answered your own original question. The over-riding feature you seem to want/need is higher ISO performance, and the Phase/Leaf/Hasselblad CMOS versions are too expensive in your opinion. I suspect the Leica CMOS S camera version expected at Photokina will also be waaaaay out of the question.

Best of luck with your Pentax:thumbup:

- Marc
 

kknd

New member
Likewise, low light ability will still be diminished by optics ... ISO 6400 doesn't make the lens better;)

IMO, the investment is in lenses, and while one camera may be better than the next, it is always a temporary thing until the others catch up. Lenses are much longer term.

Anyway, you have answered your own original question. The over-riding feature you seem to want/need is higher ISO performance, and the Phase/Leaf/Hasselblad CMOS versions are too expensive in your opinion. I suspect the Leica CMOS S camera version expected at Photokina will also be waaaaay out of the question.

Best of luck with your Pentax:thumbup:

- Marc
Nnnnoooo, still thinkin :)
And, surprisingly, drifting from pentax to hassy, `cause, you right, lenses. And as i mentioned earlier, hassy is an addition to my system, making me capable solving wider area of tasks in summary, then pentax alone.
 
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