Fun with X1D

[eleanorbrown]

Eli the fff files are smaller and save space. Other than that really not much difference. LR reads the fff files a little darker so I pull up the exposure a tiny bit to match the larger 3rf file. To get the fff I import into Phocus and they just sync the same input folder in LR. Others probably know a lot more about the difference in the files. Eleanor

Hi Eleanor,

I was wondering why you prefer the fff file format? Also, LR imports files in the 3fr format, so how do you get files in the fff format into LR?

Thanks,

Eli

 

[jdphoto]

Eli the fff files are smaller and save space. Other than that really not much difference. LR reads the fff files a little darker so I pull up the exposure a tiny bit to match the larger 3rf file. To get the fff I import into Phocus and they just sync the same input folder in LR. Others probably know a lot more about the difference in the files. Eleanor

How are you finding the dynamic range when increasing exposure? Also, i'b be interested to know how it handles clipping highlights too. The bane of digital photography. Aside from the Hasselblad film cameras such as the SWC, this is probably the best Hasselblad design ever.

 

[tashley]

So, a certain well-known reviewer is getting his teeth into both the camera and the 90mm lens and so far, some notable flies in the ointment have emerged with both. If anyone else here knows the reviews I mean, has shot the camera extensively and can comment as to the consistency of their experience with his, please PM me - I'd really appreciate it. Good manners requires that given the subscription nature of his site, I don't blow his findings here. They're not killer matters but some are of concern to me.

 

[wellfleet]

So, a certain well-known reviewer is getting his teeth into both the camera and the 90mm lens and so far, some notable flies in the ointment have emerged with both. If anyone else here knows the reviews I mean, has shot the camera extensively and can comment as to the consistency of their experience with his, please PM me - I'd really appreciate it. Good manners requires that given the subscription nature of his site, I don't blow his findings here. They're not killer matters but some are of concern to me.

Ming Thein and another owner have commented on focus shift. Check out the comments section at this link - https://blog.mingthein.com/2017/01/29/short-term-pain-long-term-gain/#comment-535051

 

[steve_cor]

So, a certain well-known reviewer is getting his teeth into both the camera and the 90mm lens and so far, some notable flies in the ointment have emerged with both. If anyone else here knows the reviews I mean, has shot the camera extensively and can comment as to the consistency of their experience with his, please PM me - I'd really appreciate it. Good manners requires that given the subscription nature of his site, I don't blow his findings here. They're not killer matters but some are of concern to me.

Do you mean this one?

https://diglloyd.com/blog/2017/20170207_0940-HasselbladX1D-reviewStarted-iSeries-dolls.html

 

[vjbelle]

So, a certain well-known reviewer is getting his teeth into both the camera and the 90mm lens and so far, some notable flies in the ointment have emerged with both. If anyone else here knows the reviews I mean, has shot the camera extensively and can comment as to the consistency of their experience with his, please PM me - I'd really appreciate it. Good manners requires that given the subscription nature of his site, I don't blow his findings here. They're not killer matters but some are of concern to me.

Tim..... I wouldn't tip toe around Chambers as I know he wouldn't around you or me. I don't subscribe anymore to his site but he does have some accurate findings and focus shift is one of them. That would be a deal killer for me if my testing found it as bad as some lenses I have owned. I'm amazed at how many photographers don't understand or realize how destructive to an image focus shift could be.

Victor

 

[JoshMerwin]

The problem with his findings in medium format is that he always finds something wrong with the system. He had issues with a previous Hasselblad system and I offered to loan him mine to test or meet up so he could test it and he said he wasn't interested. So I'd take it with a grain of salt. I have taken his advice for computer stuff and it's been helpful. I will try to do some testing with mine tomorrow and report back. But I haven't seen anything on the demo I had or mine to make
Me nervous. Since it's mirrorless and you are looking at what's on the sensor as you focus, I was under the impression that if it's in focus. It starts that way.

 

[Godfrey]

So, a certain well-known reviewer is getting his teeth into both the camera and the 90mm lens and so far, some notable flies in the ointment have emerged with both. If anyone else here knows the reviews I mean, has shot the camera extensively and can comment as to the consistency of their experience with his, please PM me - I'd really appreciate it. Good manners requires that given the subscription nature of his site, I don't blow his findings here. They're not killer matters but some are of concern to me.

I've never found a one of Digilloyd's alleged 'findings' on equipment that I owned that produced any significant impact on image quality or was even reproducible with my equipment. As a result, I stopped reading his stuff years ago.

G

 

[eleanorbrown]

I hate to admit this but I had no real idea of what "focus shift" was. Diglloyd has some really bad stuff to say about focus shift in the 90 lens that I used for this shot. I always just focused on what I wanted (many times manually) and that was that. Anyway this was shot with my 90 lens iso 100 at f4. Looks OK to me. I've never worked commercially so possibly that's why I never knew about stuff like focus shift. Now I know but don't think I'll be worried about this on my two X1D lenses. They'er way good enough. Eleanor

 

[JoshMerwin]

i've never found a one of digilloyd's alleged 'findings' on equipment that i owned that produced any significant impact on image quality or was even reproducible with my equipment. As a result, i stopped reading his stuff years ago.

G

yep

 

[eleanorbrown]

I have been doing longer exposures around my house and I find the dynamic range to be very excellent...not a problem at all. With this said I have only been shooting at iso 100.......also haven't done much experimenting with clipped highlights so can't answer to that yet. What I don't like is the almost constant green cast I get in Auto WB. Wish Hasselblad would fix this in a firmware update. Even when I look at the menus on the LCD there is a green cast naturally inherent in the screen display itself. Eleanor

How are you finding the dynamic range when increasing exposure? Also, i'b be interested to know how it handles clipping highlights too. The bane of digital photography. Aside from the Hasselblad film cameras such as the SWC, this is probably the best Hasselblad design ever.

 

[chrismuc]

I hate to admit this but I had no real idea of what "focus shift" was. Diglloyd has some really bad stuff to say about focus shift in the 90 lens that I used for this shot. I always just focused on what I wanted (many times manually) and that was that. Anyway this was shot with my 90 lens iso 100 at f4. Looks OK to me. I've never worked commercially so possibly that's why I never knew about stuff like focus shift. Now I know but don't think I'll be worried about this on my two X1D lenses. They'er way good enough. Eleanor

Focus shift does not mean that the focus point for the exposure is different to what you see in live view on the EVF or back screen (af of mf). That should be always correct with a mirrorless camera because you already focus on the sensor - in contrary to most sir cameras.

Focus shift means that the focus point at more closed apertures is not the same compared to open aperture but it 'shifts'. Many lenses unfortunately exhibit this unwanted behaviour. So if you focus at f3.2 and make a picture at f4 you won't find any focus shift because you closed down only a bit. If you would have done the same pic also at f8 or f11 you would see it ... if the lens has focus shift.

 

[chrismuc]

I found a test I did long ago with the Zeiss CY 135f2 when I for the first time saw this phenomenon (I thought the lens is defect, but it isn't ;-)

I did a pic of books at an angle to the shelf.
You see how the depth of field becomes larger closing the aperture but the actual focus point shifts backwards.

 

[chrismuc]

Here the view orthogonally to the book backs.

The pictures at f4 and f8 are not really sharper (especially across the frame) compared to the f2 picture. The reason is not that the lens doesn't become sharper closing the aperture (before diffraction contradicts this) but because the focus point shifts backwards.

of topic: 2007, Canon 20D

 

[JoshMerwin]

Thanks for the explanation and example! I'm not sure where this would come into effect if you are focusing at the exposure you are shooting at though, which is hiwninshoot with this camera. What are the instances where the situation described above would come into effect? Let me know and I can test it out. I do realize that in low light the sensor can open up the exposure to af more accurately sometimes.

 

[dchew]

What are the instances where the situation described above would come into effect? Let me know and I can test it out. I do realize that in low light the sensor can open up the exposure to af more accurately sometimes.

Josh,
That's it exactly. Many cameras (and people focusing manually) focus wide open to see better where the plane of focus is. If the lens has focus shift, that distance shifts a bit when the lens is stopped down.

Usually the increased depth of field does a good job masking it and the result is fine. Personally I've not found it to be a concern except when focusing rulers.

But for close up, macro or studio work I bet it could be frustrating.

Dave

 

[jerome_m]

Focus shift is corrected on the H series of cameras (the cameras focuses according to the aperture). On the Sony mirrorless cameras, focus is done with the aperture closed down, so there is never any focus shift.

I suppose that Hasselblad will implement one of these methods in a future firmware.

 

[JoshMerwin]

I don't have it in front of me right now, but I think it's boosting the ISO to focus when it's dark, from what I remember. Maybe it's doing both, but I remember it being super grainy while it "opens up" to focus.

 

[tashley]

Focus shift is corrected on the H series of cameras (the cameras focuses according to the aperture). On the Sony mirrorless cameras, focus is done with the aperture closed down, so there is never any focus shift.

I suppose that Hasselblad will implement one of these methods in a future firmware.

Good to know. The reviewer I am discussing doesn't mention, in his Lensalign series, if he focussed AF or MF but it is clear that the wide open shot was nailed and therefore the shift does seem to be there, at least at close range. However, if as you say the AF system 'knows' about shift and applies corrections, then that's fine for portraits because unless the model is dead (eeeeugh) one would be using AF rather than MF but for still life work etc, it would be boring - especially until they come up with AF areas that are the right size.

In any event, with a live model, in my experience the natural micro movements back and forth as the model tries to be still would likely outstrip the shift, it being less than huge. But on average it will be working against you.

 

[JoshMerwin]

Just by doing a quick test here are couple thoughts. And keep in mind that I am not subscriber to his site, so I have no idea what his methods or results were. If someone wants to PM me relevant info to that, I'm happy to review it and try to replicate his test. But, If he did it with AF, (which on my camera and the way I have it set up is the only way that it automatically opens up for focus) my guess is that the focus point is not exactly where he thinks it is, causing the image to be off by 1mm. I like the size of the focus points and I know that we will be getting smaller ones in the next firmware update. But I can easily see it being an issue if you are focusing on a ruler with a bunch of lines with the 90mm lens. Because the minimum focusing distance isn't the shortest, the focus point may latch onto the incorrect one. We are talking minute differences here. When you manual focus, my camera doesn't open up, so there shouldn't be any focus shift. And when it zoomed in, I was able to get precise focus manually.