If I recall correctly (it's been many years), the LCC helped with color cast but not with the loss in resolution at the edges/corners.
I would expect the Biogon to play well with the newer BSI sensor, should it ever arrive in a CFV back.
John
The GetDPI Photography Forum
Great to see you here. Join our insightful photographic forum today and start tapping into a huge wealth of photographic knowledge. Completing our simple registration process will allow you to gain access to exclusive content, add your own topics and posts, share your work and connect with other members through your own private inbox! And don’t forget to say hi!
has anyone tried the Hasselblad CFV II 50c with tech camera?
- Thread starter DavidJA
- Start date
I would expect the Biogon to play well with the newer BSI sensor, should it ever arrive in a CFV back.
John
doccdiamond
Member
I recently "tested" the Biogon 38mm in ALPA mount on a IQ260. As mentioned, the edges really suffer even without shifting and it is really weak compared to a Rodenstock 40mm - if you use it for architecture or landscape. Doing more of an reportage style of photography it renders nice and very film-like... It depends as always on your application. A smaller sensor will definitely help to reduce corner effects as you are using only the sweet spot of the lens but I doubt that the lens would be capable to handle a "CFV 100" in terms of resolution.
Wow, that's a really cool setup! May I ask how the conversion of the Biogon to Alpa plate was accomplished? I would be curious to see how it performs on the BSI sensor of the IQ4 150.
A digital back on the SWC makes for a nice point-and-shoot using the old legacy lens, but otherwise as you mention the modern tech cam lenses are likely superior, at least in terms of sharpness. After experimenting with the IQ160 on the SWC, I found a great copy of the Hasselblad/Zeiss 40 IF CFE, which with its retrofocus design solved the smearing/astignatism issues and was bitingly sharp across the entire field (and also allowed for some movements on the Flexbody). However the 40 IF, like the Rodie 40HR, suffers from significant distortion that may or may not bother you depending on the application (one big advantage of the Biogon 38 is its distortion-free rendering). When I eventually migrated to the Cambo with the 40HR, I couldn't justify keeping the 40 IF so sold it off.
John
jotloob
Subscriber Member
John
My information is , must not be 100% true , but is no fake , that ZEISS produced 50 BIOGONs for ALPA . Two of them are in ALPAs collection and are not for sale , and the other 48 BIOGONs are hold by collectors all over the world .
To get hold of one of these 48 remaining examples is absolutely impossible . I have once seen one for a price of 28.000 € . I don't know if that is cheap or expensive .
I don't dare to look at that image again , because I don't want to fall into a coma .
My information is , must not be 100% true , but is no fake , that ZEISS produced 50 BIOGONs for ALPA . Two of them are in ALPAs collection and are not for sale , and the other 48 BIOGONs are hold by collectors all over the world .
To get hold of one of these 48 remaining examples is absolutely impossible . I have once seen one for a price of 28.000 € . I don't know if that is cheap or expensive .
I don't dare to look at that image again , because I don't want to fall into a coma .
darr
Well-known member
Jurgen may be falling into a coma but I'm still hyperventilating. @doccdiamond's image of the Alpa-mounted Biogon 38 takes my gear lust to a whole 'nother level!Please do not fall into a coma, Jürgen.
And do not go near a Leica store either!
John
jotloob
Subscriber Member
Yes DarrPlease do not fall into a coma, Jürgen.
And do not go near a Leica store either!
ALPA , HASSELBLAD and LEICA stores are the ones , which I must avoid . Strictly .
You can look but don't touch. And remember: there is no virtue without temptation.
doccdiamond
Member
As mentioned later in this conversation Zeiss made two batches of Biogons in Alpa mount (around total 50pc.). The first batch had a Prontor shutter (the original one) and the better lens setup (with some later banned "secret" ingredients in the glass...- Arsenic or so), like shown and used for this test, the second larger batch already a Copal one with the latest SWC-lens setup. Distortion behavior is of course excellent (like a Schneider 35mm) but the Rosenstock/Alpagon is not too bad in distortion wise (not as drastic as the 32mm Alpa/Rodenstock) and nicely corrected by the known plugins.
Nevertheless the Biogon is a calculation from the analog times and I was not very impressed digitally. Might be a different experience with a BSI sensor but I am not sure if it is only smearing or in addition field curvature.
But the setup looks awesome...
doccdiamond
Member
doccdiamond
Member
It is, and from the first even better batch....- but to cure a little bit the gear fever - I only used it for a test and do not own it.
Not to forget - it looks good on an ALPA TC as well...- even closer to an SWC...
jotloob
Subscriber Member
Yes , it would look good on my TC , on my ALPA 12 plus , but not to beat , on my SWA with rosewood grips .
What a beautiful camera . Sorry , I will stop that now . Promised .
doccdiamond
Member
More and more of topic...Yes , it would look good on my TC , on my ALPA 12 plus , but not to beat , on my SWA with rosewood grips .
What a beautiful camera . Sorry , I will stop that now . Promised .
..but true!
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
The pricing on these makes 0 sense. It is mainly for sentimental reasons, but it has been reported also by Christoph Greiner that the Biogon is really not great compared to other offerings which came later such as the 43 XL or the 40 HR, for example.
We are really talking the beginning of Alpa here, which why it is valuable for historic and rarity reasons, but in terms of sheer value the SK 28 in Alpa mount is a lot more valuable and as rare. It is sharp as hell, can shift and is rectilinear.
Only 50 were ever mounted on Alpa and one got destroyed (Alpa told me) and one is owned by Alpa in the demo dept. So there are 48 in the wild as well, maybe 47, 46, if more got destroyed.
For me personally the ultimate Alpa collector lens with truly unique capabilities. There is no other 90 IC lens that wide.
jotloob
Subscriber Member
Paul
You are right . The price 28.000€ makes no sense . It is an absolute collector price , and most collectors will never really use the lens .
The same is valid for LEICA , where you might even pay a multiple of the price .
The collectors world is a world of its own .
You are right . The price 28.000€ makes no sense . It is an absolute collector price , and most collectors will never really use the lens .
The same is valid for LEICA , where you might even pay a multiple of the price .
The collectors world is a world of its own .
I would agree based on my own experience with the Biogon 38, 40 IF and Rodenstock 40HR. However looking back on some of my old images I am reminded that apart from the corner sharpness issues the old Biogon is no slouch and gives a very nice rendering, likely less clinical than the more modern designs. It would be fun to see how well it acquits itself on the new BSI sensors, but this is all rather academic for now.
John
TechTalk
Well-known member
Thanks for the information on the Zeiss 38 mm Biogon for Alpa. Alpa has a listing for the lens as a legacy product on their website. As for a future CFV 100 combined with the lens, a sensor with more resolution would not change the inherent acutance and resolution of the lens in any way; but would improve the combined lens + sensor MTF in the final image compared to a lower resolution sensor. Image resolution generally improves if either the lens or sensor resolution improves. See the appendix of this article for an explanation and the straightforward math.
It's interesting to note the wording Alpa uses in their 12 STC Silver Edition announcement: "ALPA of Switzerland is celebrating the start of its collaboration with Hasselblad by launching the ALPA 12 STC Silver Edition, numbered and limited to 50 pieces worldwide." I have no idea what they mean by "the start of its collaboration with Hasselblad". That may just be promotional language for another special edition, it will be interesting to see if it means something more than that over time.
All of the comments with regard to the variation in rendering from different lenses to produce the look you want in the image is important to remember. It's why we can never have too many lenses, as others have reminded us from time to time.
Last edited:
TechTalk
Well-known member
The chart refers to the manual for details which says:
Although the SWC/M, 903SWC and 905SWC models work in conjunction with a CFV-50c, the combination is not recommended for critical work in certain instances. It is difficult to predict all photographic situations so it is advisable to read the following and make a judgement followed by checking the focus on the preview to see if it matches your expectations.
The Biogon 38 lens was designed for film use where the unusually close proximity of the lens to the film plane was of no consequence. However, digital sensors and their protective filters make very different demands on the angle and travelling distances of the peripheral rays exiting the rear lens element. Gradual unsharpness consequently occurs towards the edges of the frame, particularly noticeable with flat subjects (typically copying situations, 90° shots against building façades, etc) though these effects will be naturally less obvious with more three-dimensional subjects. Slight green and magenta casts are also caused, though these can be removed digitally in Phocus.