Godfrey
Well-known member
All that shiny gold and filigree just looks gaudy to me, but I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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Hasselblad 28 Sept 2021 "Beyond Classic"
- Thread starter PabloR
- Start date
G
Same here, using my leica m10m wetzlar like a normal cameraI dunno, Pablo. I've bought three-four special edition cameras. I bought them because I liked the little difference that the special edition had, whatever it was, and the price premium wasn't overly unbearable. And then I used them because what else should a photographer do with a camera? Just like I do with my Hasselblad 907x Special Edition...
Leaves - Santa Clara 2020
Hasselblad 907x Special Edition + XCD 45mm f/4 P
ISO 1600 @ f/5.6 @ 1/100
A camera is a camera...
G
docholliday
Well-known member
That was the point. It's so over-the-top gaudy and ridiculous that it's worth having just for the sake of being ridiculous.
Steve Hendrix
Well-known member
Who remembers the Hasselblad Stellar, Lunar and HV?
If you do you will probably agree that this new special edition isn't all that bad afterall
We tried to forget.
Steve Hendrix/CI
pegelli
Well-known member
I agree, they were beyond "something else"
MGrayson
Subscriber and Workshop Member
It sometimes takes a period of wild mismanagement to convince the Board of Directors that they need to restore the brand. Apple did that by bringing Steve Jobs back. I have nothing good to say about the Stellar and Lunar, but they may be partially responsible for Hasselblad innovation since then. (Disclaimer: I'm making this up.)Who remembers the Hasselblad Stellar, Lunar and HV?
If you do you will probably agree that this new special edition isn't all that bad afterall
Godfrey
Well-known member
Who remembers the Hasselblad Stellar, Lunar and HV?
If you do you will probably agree that this new special edition isn't all that bad afterall
I'd quite happily forgotten that junk entirely. Now you've reminded me.. A terrible thing for a manufacturer to stoop to, created purely in pursuit of making a buck off the name in a moment of dire Need...
Happily, they seem to have recovered from that abyss.
G
docholliday
Well-known member
That's real. I know a HK collector who has all kinds of ridiculousness including that and the 20 jahre pink M6. Even if it wasn't, the HK people would still buy it. They're rabid.I was looking at the gold Leica editions (one Sultan of Brunei, one PRC), but the article ended with something so weird that I can't decide if it's real or not - a Hello Kitty Playboy Bunny mashup.
There's a reason I would never shoot anything Leica...
This feels very much like a stopgap from Hasselblad to me: get people talking about the brand and camera, reskin some existing stock and shift it at an increased price to collectors, make the standard edition appear to be much better value for money, and so on. And then in a year or two: boom, shiny new improved model.
I wouldn't buy it, but then I think special/limited editions of cameras are an oddity.
Hasselblad are still missing a trick by not selling the CFV II back on its own at a reduced price, they would probably pull a lot more people into the X system if they did that. But whatever. *Maybe* that will be in the next iteration - a higher resolution version of the back that will be sold alone to mix in with the existing system people have bought into.
I wouldn't buy it, but then I think special/limited editions of cameras are an oddity.
Hasselblad are still missing a trick by not selling the CFV II back on its own at a reduced price, they would probably pull a lot more people into the X system if they did that. But whatever. *Maybe* that will be in the next iteration - a higher resolution version of the back that will be sold alone to mix in with the existing system people have bought into.
Godfrey
Well-known member
I disagree that they're 'missing a trick'. I believe that the cost of manufacture for the 907x body is trivial, and the price-add to sell the CFVII-50c with it only as a bundle is also trivial. The V system accessories and lenses are all discontinued, so selling just the back permits nothing more than the existing community to generate profit from the back for Hasselblad. Market data shows that most of the profit generated from a system camera to the manufacturer comes from the sale of new lenses and accessories, and most of that within the first 18 months of ownership, so if they sold only the back, it would be one shot at some profit from their existing audience and little more. Those owners who only want a digital back for their existing V systems already have a host of options when it comes to buying a digital back...
By selling the CFVII-50c back bundled with the 907x body, they open up the field to existing Hasselblad V system owners to buy new H and X system lenses, adapters, and other accessories. As well as other X system bodies to use with them. Many might not, but I believe that the greater number (similar to myself) will. I had no real ideas to buying more than the 907x/CFVII-50c, and XCD 21mm lens (to have the FoV equivalent of the SWC/M with the digital back) when I ordered the 907x, I was going to use my 500CM system with the back otherwise. But I found the lenses and the 907x compelling enough to put my money there. And the 907x/CFVII-50c kit was already about a third the cost of the previous CFV-50c back kit.
To me, it just makes more sense for Hasselblad to sell the back as part of a kit that invites users to expand their Hasselblad system with currently offered product.
Special editions are something that virtually every camera manufacturer does, and they're there only and specifically for those who value what they commemorate. They rarely cost much beyond the base model to develop, and the price premium charged for them pays that additional debt off if the edition is popular. I see no downside to them, other than that (to me) they are sometimes a bit on the silly side. A "Hello Kitty" version of a Leica? Laughable when it was introduced, now an amusing and funny special that some folks really like.
The only accounting for taste that makes any difference is done by the person deciding to spend their money.
G
By selling the CFVII-50c back bundled with the 907x body, they open up the field to existing Hasselblad V system owners to buy new H and X system lenses, adapters, and other accessories. As well as other X system bodies to use with them. Many might not, but I believe that the greater number (similar to myself) will. I had no real ideas to buying more than the 907x/CFVII-50c, and XCD 21mm lens (to have the FoV equivalent of the SWC/M with the digital back) when I ordered the 907x, I was going to use my 500CM system with the back otherwise. But I found the lenses and the 907x compelling enough to put my money there. And the 907x/CFVII-50c kit was already about a third the cost of the previous CFV-50c back kit.
To me, it just makes more sense for Hasselblad to sell the back as part of a kit that invites users to expand their Hasselblad system with currently offered product.
Special editions are something that virtually every camera manufacturer does, and they're there only and specifically for those who value what they commemorate. They rarely cost much beyond the base model to develop, and the price premium charged for them pays that additional debt off if the edition is popular. I see no downside to them, other than that (to me) they are sometimes a bit on the silly side. A "Hello Kitty" version of a Leica? Laughable when it was introduced, now an amusing and funny special that some folks really like.
The only accounting for taste that makes any difference is done by the person deciding to spend their money.
G
buildbot
Well-known member
I don’t know why they haven’t tried to launch a kit with the 50c + a newly manufactured 500c body, either as a special edition or as a rejuvenation of the V system.
The stopgap theory for this special edition makes a lot of sense, given the current chip shortages. Even my new coffee makers has been delayed by months due to simple components not being available :/
The stopgap theory for this special edition makes a lot of sense, given the current chip shortages. Even my new coffee makers has been delayed by months due to simple components not being available :/
Steve Hendrix
Well-known member
I disagree that they're 'missing a trick'. I believe that the cost of manufacture for the 907x body is trivial, and the price-add to sell the CFVII-50c with it only as a bundle is also trivial. The V system accessories and lenses are all discontinued, so selling just the back permits nothing more than the existing community to generate profit from the back for Hasselblad. Market data shows that most of the profit generated from a system camera to the manufacturer comes from the sale of new lenses and accessories, and most of that within the first 18 months of ownership, so if they sold only the back, it would be one shot at some profit from their existing audience and little more. Those owners who only want a digital back for their existing V systems already have a host of options when it comes to buying a digital back...
By selling the CFVII-50c back bundled with the 907x body, they open up the field to existing Hasselblad V system owners to buy new H and X system lenses, adapters, and other accessories. As well as other X system bodies to use with them. Many might not, but I believe that the greater number (similar to myself) will. I had no real ideas to buying more than the 907x/CFVII-50c, and XCD 21mm lens (to have the FoV equivalent of the SWC/M with the digital back) when I ordered the 907x, I was going to use my 500CM system with the back otherwise. But I found the lenses and the 907x compelling enough to put my money there. And the 907x/CFVII-50c kit was already about a third the cost of the previous CFV-50c back kit.
To me, it just makes more sense for Hasselblad to sell the back as part of a kit that invites users to expand their Hasselblad system with currently offered product.
Special editions are something that virtually every camera manufacturer does, and they're there only and specifically for those who value what they commemorate. They rarely cost much beyond the base model to develop, and the price premium charged for them pays that additional debt off if the edition is popular. I see no downside to them, other than that (to me) they are sometimes a bit on the silly side. A "Hello Kitty" version of a Leica? Laughable when it was introduced, now an amusing and funny special that some folks really like.
The only accounting for taste that makes any difference is done by the person deciding to spend their money.
G
Generally speaking, in the first 12 months of a new camera release (at least for medium format cameras, Fuji, Hasselblad, Phase One, Leica), our sales are about 1.5 - 2.0 to 1 ratio of bodies to lenses. Quite a few have an existing previous version body and already have the lenses. And in the case of the 907x, many mounted these to view cameras or Hasselblad V series bodies and let it go at that. So the greatest disparity we saw was the 907x model, because so many were re-purposing the digital back. However, even in that case, many did buy XCD lenses.
And I expect that you are correct about the savings that not including the 907x Camera Adapter would result in - not much. I think even if they did separate the CFV 50c II from the 907x Camera, the CFV 50C II would still be listed in the $5,000 - $5,500 range. I would like an option to separate but I don't feel like it is a crucial situation - the cost savings would not be substantial, and many do eventually add some XCD lenses.
Steve Hendrix/CI
Godfrey
Well-known member
I expect it would cost a huge fortune to revive the 500 SLR body manufacturing line, never mind even a minimal amount of lens production, and the market for a new 500 series body at the new price that would be needed to make it profitable is probably infinitesimal to non-existent, given the number of excellent-condition 500 series bodies available on the used market for virtually nothing.
(My black 1978 vintage 500CM body, with WLF, winder knob, Acute Matte screen, and front/back caps, cost me the grand total of $460 in 2020... and is in absolutely perfect condition. There were a dozen to choose from in similar condition when I bought this one. I can't imagine making a profit on a newly manufactured same thing today at a price point less than three times that.)
G
Which kind of backs up my "missing a trick" suggestion. Hasselblad were literally marketing this thing as working with their (almost) entire legacy of V series bodies and then decided not to sell it on its own? So plenty of users bought it to use with other bodies/lenses and plenty (?) of others probably decided it was too much to fork out for. Yeah there are lots of other digital backs available, but they're much older, not as well supported, have more compromises, much more expensive, and so on.
I bought the 907x and the 45P. I will not buy another X lens as they are ridiculously expensive, and I have an existing range of V lenses and a 4x5 kit. I know Hasselblad want to pull users into the X system but the reality is that most V series users are "legacy" users, in the sense of it's been on their shelf unused for years or they're a second/third/fourth/fifth hand owner of a system. Does anyone think they're interested in dropping several thousand on some lenses? Pffft, no chance.
The cynic in me feels that Hasselblad are releasing this as their sales for the 907x may not have met expectations so they're trying to recoup costs. So a stopgap. An 80 year special edition is such an arbitrary thing, and perhaps they've jumped into manufacturing the extra bits and decided they'll bring in more profit this way? They're releasing 800 of these things? At the extra profit they're making that's in the order of, what, a couple of million? Nice.
Anyone buying this edition will be doing so as an investment, not a photographic tool. There's no concept of "tatste" in that, no matter who you are. The other special edition was different as it was essentially the first availability of this camera. This version? Nah. Stopgap. Cynical. A f*ck you to the existing legacy V userbase who would have bought a reduced priced CFV II standalone back.The only accounting for taste that makes any difference is done by the person deciding to spend their money.
buildbot
Well-known member
I agree there's a massive amount of bodies out there - though it seems like now nice 500C bodies are going for a lot more than 460, the only thing I've seen around that price are ELMs.
Would it really take that much in these days of fairly advanced CNC machining? I don't think they'd really be setting up a full on mass production line so much as producing revised version of the existing design using a few machines. It would be cool own a 2021 produced 500CM made from a solid block of metal (expensive for sure!). I don't really know, just speculating, maybe the cost is bonkers and that is why they haven't! Make it hand-built and charge 10-20K?
Godfrey
Well-known member
I worked for manufacturers of hard goods. There's an old aphorism in the manufacturing business: you can build 10 of anything at a reasonable cost by hand, and you can build a hundred of anything by machine processes at a reasonable cost. But it's hard to build anything between 10 and 100 either way and make a profit.
The introduction of the 907x/CFVII-50c, at 1/3 the price of the previous CFV-50c alone, has probably pulled a lot of Hasselblads out of the closet for the first time in years, and given a lot of interested folks to snap up the older bodies to use with a digital back.
—
And if you're someone who complains about the cost of new X system lenses and such, well, then you're not really a part of the audience that will bring Hasselblad the profit needed to survive. Yeah, they cost a lot of money. New Hasselblad gear has always cost a lot of money ... I could never afford a Hasselblad 500CM, a couple of backs, and four lenses until they were a discontinued, obsolete, end-of-life thing on the used market. Buying the 907x and four lenses was a lot of money for me, but I've felt it quite a great value considering how excellent the gear is and the quality of the photos I get with it.
That's a decision for every person to make for themself... Just like Leica gear, Alpa gear, Phase One gear, etc.
G
The introduction of the 907x/CFVII-50c, at 1/3 the price of the previous CFV-50c alone, has probably pulled a lot of Hasselblads out of the closet for the first time in years, and given a lot of interested folks to snap up the older bodies to use with a digital back.
—
And if you're someone who complains about the cost of new X system lenses and such, well, then you're not really a part of the audience that will bring Hasselblad the profit needed to survive. Yeah, they cost a lot of money. New Hasselblad gear has always cost a lot of money ... I could never afford a Hasselblad 500CM, a couple of backs, and four lenses until they were a discontinued, obsolete, end-of-life thing on the used market. Buying the 907x and four lenses was a lot of money for me, but I've felt it quite a great value considering how excellent the gear is and the quality of the photos I get with it.
That's a decision for every person to make for themself... Just like Leica gear, Alpa gear, Phase One gear, etc.
G