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Leica Service

rayyan

Well-known member
' there are no excuse ' is correct. Period.

I, too, have been in charge of a massive software conversion. Of a joint venture international bank.

It is complicated..yes. If the management cannot handle it smoothly, they should not be in management. In my case, it was corporate and retail banking..international and domestic. It was and is a full service bank. We had parallel systems. Reconciled every day. Systems were stress tested, people trained, IT trained, auditors and federal banking authorities involved. Documentations, backup sites and so forth.

We switched over seamlessly, and successfully. They gave me a bonus. I retired.
Else, I would have been fired much early on.

I, for one, with current Leica price/product/service structure and implementation have left them. Till they have, IMHO, a product that I, one small customer, believe is worth my cash.
 

glenerrolrd

Workshop Member
I pieced together what may be happening at Leica from a few facts and from my own experience helping companies that have experienced massive back office failures.

I believe that Leica converted to a new enterprise accounting and logistic support system in early April 2016. These conversions are difficult. People with experience with them have developed protocols that require off line test and modification before adoption, as well as training and documentation. When the enterprise is converted to the new system there is often a period of parallel operation until it clear that the bugs have been shaken out of the new system.

I suspect new Leica system is enterprise wide covering areas like point of sale at Leica stores, upstream supply chain and vendor management, management of inventories and dealer orders, and management of repairs. For whatever reasons I believe that the conversion to the new system did not go smoothly. This can be a very difficult situation to work out of. There are no excuses - this is management's job, but it's way more complicated than "accountability" or a desire to treat customers fairly. I wish Leica well but believe that they are dealing with a very difficult problem. A first step would be candid communications.
Woody ..did you read my prior post about the NJ service operation? It could be run well on a MBP and a few excel spread sheets . See my prior experience as knowledgable on this topic .

The software they utilize at Leica is SAP ...a large complication enterprise wide system . They have been using SAP in Germany since before the M8 was announced ..but not in NJ .

If you have noticed ...first the customer service manager and then two long term employees left the company . Probably not a coincidence ! This is what happens when you dump a ton of conversion work on your staff and expect them to do their day jobs as well.

But suggest that Leica NJ add some temporary employees to get them over the hump .....falls on deaf ears . Suggest that a problem exists at all ...its always somebody or something outside of “our” control .


When managements incentives and survival are based on politics (don t ever criticize Wetzler) and meeting your financial goals ...without a balance on customer satisfaction ..... what outcome would you expect ?
 

fotografz

Well-known member
The whys and wherefores are all well and good ... however, it doesn't solve the issue that has crippled the S system and devalued it so severely.

I could handle a "switch over time" of their internal service/sales management because it mostly likely will be tamed ... eventually.

That doesn't correct the epidemic of S lens failures. If they reduced service time considerably, it won't alter pulling a lens out on the job, or after traveling to a destination, or whatever, and having it fail on the spot.

Fail, with no rhyme or reason ... i.e., some folks' lenses fail one after another despite babying the S gear, while someone else has no failures. Speculation as to why is all over the place, and any question about what is being done goes unanswered.

Replacing a failed part with the same part over and over is the very definition of "insanity" ... (extreme foolishness or irrationality).

Honestly, IMO this is worse than Leica abandoning the R system, or Kyocera suddenly exiting the Contax business ... because that equipment still worked, and was serviced well after the fact.

While "lives" are not at risk here (or there would have been a forced recall), "livelihoods" could be. Not many photo businesses can take this kind of financial hit from a key system ... I know mine can't. What I can get for all my S gear now wouldn't cover a base replacement kit from another MF maker ... especially with my requirement for Leaf Shutter lenses.

Depressing isn't the word for it.

Merry freakin' Christmas!

- Marc
 

D&A

Well-known member
In my humble opinion, what this thread first and foremost comes down to, is primarily the lack of corporate communication and accountibility with their customers. Notice the similarity to the "Wheres the X1D???" thread in the medium format forum? People who have a vested interest in a system, whether through purchase of equipment or trying to plan cash outlay for one, are left in the dark without nary a forthright word or explanantion for some basic questions that consumers investing large sums of money have a right to know.

This runs the gamit from when parts of a system will be made available (ie: cs lenses, or pre announced/preordered equipment, to addressing repairs on sent in equipment or responding to a system wide problem with lenses or a body for example).

When people are kept in the dark, it exacerbates an already tenuous situation and if left to go on long enough, will ignite anger and defection.

My discussions on a confidential basis with someone internal to Leica confirmed what Roger and myself previously mentioned. Namely the turmoil that unfortunately exists with Leica, specifically Leica USA, from implementation of the SAP system to internal strife and employee conflicts and pressure to redress an overwhelming number of ongoing issues fostered upon a relatively small number of employees. It will and has led to disatisfaction and personel turnover.

On the plus side, when all is said and done, it is hoped that an efficient and much more streamlined system for communication and repair will be implemented, incorporating an expanded facility to handle certain aspects of S equipment here in the States in order to partially eliminate shipping to Germany and subsequently reduce downtime of said equipment.

Whether this leads to addressing an epidemic type issue like stripped gears and AF failures of S lenses as such is yet to be seen.

Working with a piece of equipment thats much like a time bomb, waiting to go off without notice, is simply an unacceptable way to shoot. That to me is the bottom line along with forthcoming answers so one can make informed decisions.

Dave (D&A)
 
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justalexander

New member
The whys and wherefores are all well and good ... however, it doesn't solve the issue that has crippled the S system and devalued it so severely.

I could handle a "switch over time" of their internal service/sales management because it mostly likely will be tamed ... eventually.

That doesn't correct the epidemic of S lens failures. If they reduced service time considerably, it won't alter pulling a lens out on the job, or after traveling to a destination, or whatever, and having it fail on the spot.

Fail, with no rhyme or reason ... i.e., some folks' lenses fail one after another despite babying the S gear, while someone else has no failures. Speculation as to why is all over the place, and any question about what is being done goes unanswered.

Replacing a failed part with the same part over and over is the very definition of "insanity" ... (extreme foolishness or irrationality).

Honestly, IMO this is worse than Leica abandoning the R system, or Kyocera suddenly exiting the Contax business ... because that equipment still worked, and was serviced well after the fact.

While "lives" are not at risk here (or there would have been a forced recall), "livelihoods" could be. Not many photo businesses can take this kind of financial hit from a key system ... I know mine can't. What I can get for all my S gear now wouldn't cover a base replacement kit from another MF maker ... especially with my requirement for Leaf Shutter lenses.

Depressing isn't the word for it.

Merry freakin' Christmas!

- Marc

I couldn't agree more Marc

I haven't experienced AF motor failures (yet) but have experienced many other issues. Lives aren't at risk but careers are. Regardless, consumer laws ARE being broken if companies fail to take responsibility for their products and address those failures in an appropriate manner. And it's not enough for Leica simply to offer to fix AF motors repeatedly because there's no telling when or where it will fail again.

My camera has been back to Germany 3 times in 10 months and they want to send it again. They argue that it's not a problem because they've always sent me a replacement while mine has been away. While that's true, what happens if a problem occurs when I'm travelling on an assignment, or when my camera is out of warranty?

I'm REALLY annoyed that Leica have been putting money into limited edition M's with ping pong rubber grips, titanium Q's and red Sumicrons. I wish they would put those resources into solving their existing customers problems. I recently upgraded the firmware in my S007, only to have it cripple live view. When I brought this to the attention of my local rep he said he hadn't experienced the problem, but when he checked with Leica HQ they said it was affecting some users. 4 weeks later they finally get around to releasing an update which fixed the problem. To use a metaphor, it seems to me the head has no idea what the hand is doing, or even worse, it doesn't care!

I felt confident moving from Hasselblad to Leica because of their famed reputation for quality and precision. I couldn't have been more wrong...

Justin
 

doug

Active member
I'm REALLY annoyed that Leica have been putting money into limited edition M's with ping pong rubber grips, titanium Q's and red Summicrons.
While I agree that the service and reliability need immediate attention, the special editions don't require significant resources. What Leica is doing with these models is squeezing the last revenue from older designs that will be updated soon.
 
I'm at the point where I am finished doing business with Leica. They won't be getting another dollar from me (and I've owned the M system and currently have an S and SL). I'll sell off the SL in the 2nd hand market if I can do so without taking a total bath on it. My criteria for a camera system is now a company that I want to do long term business with and one focused on the needs of photographers for the long term paired with great service. Sadly Leica isn't it.
 

Auni

Member
I have to say that I've been very satisfied with Leica repair over the last 9 years, mostly. Also, it seems to be getting faster.

My last experience was a couple months ago with a 50 Summilux FLE with a loose lens mount. I sent it in with a written note and followed up with a phone call about a week and a half later. I called Roxanne and she answered. I explained my problem with my lens and she addressed me by name (caller ID?) and she was immediately aware of who I was and said, she noted that it was in for the same repair before and she had a technician working on it presently and I should have it back in about two weeks.

Sure enough, I received it in just under 4 weeks round trip. I was not contacted that it was sent, though. It just arrived. No charge.

I read all of these posts that seem to repeat that people have been waiting and heard nothing. My strategy is to send it in and then call my contact and speak directly to them. It seems to work. I have had to call back a second time on occasion. But, I always follow up.

Here is the contact info that works for me and I hope it helps anyone having troubles. I can imagine how frustrating it must be.

UPS Account 082590
Roxana Lynch Ext. 9931
[email protected]
 

k-hawinkler

Well-known member
I have to say that I've been very satisfied with Leica repair over the last 9 years, mostly. Also, it seems to be getting faster.

My last experience was a couple months ago with a 50 Summilux FLE with a loose lens mount. I sent it in with a written note and followed up with a phone call about a week and a half later. I called Roxanne and she answered. I explained my problem with my lens and she addressed me by name (caller ID?) and she was immediately aware of who I was and said, she noted that it was in for the same repair before and she had a technician working on it presently and I should have it back in about two weeks.

Sure enough, I received it in just under 4 weeks round trip. I was not contacted that it was sent, though. It just arrived. No charge.

I read all of these posts that seem to repeat that people have been waiting and heard nothing. My strategy is to send it in and then call my contact and speak directly to them. It seems to work. I have had to call back a second time on occasion. But, I always follow up.

Here is the contact info that works for me and I hope it helps anyone having troubles. I can imagine how frustrating it must be.

UPS Account 082590
Roxana Lynch Ext. 9931
[email protected]

Thanks for the info.
Why did your lens need the same repair twice?
 

Auni

Member
Thanks for the info.
Why did your lens need the same repair twice?
Hi k-hawinkler,

Apparently, this lens is known to have mount issues. The Summilux 50 FLE is a very complicated lens assembly, I guess. This is the only one of my many Leica lenses I've had this problem with. It is 9 years old.

I was told that a shim was added to the mount and the lens was recalibrate. It is perfect now. I also asked if the focus could be smoothed out especially at the point the FLE is engaged. This is now silky smooth! Very Happy.
 

k-hawinkler

Well-known member
Hi k-hawinkler,

Apparently, this lens is known to have mount issues. The Summilux 50 FLE is a very complicated lens assembly, I guess. This is the only one of my many Leica lenses I've had this problem with. It is 9 years old.

I was told that a shim was added to the mount and the lens was recalibrate. It is perfect now. I also asked if the focus could be smoothed out especially at the point the FLE is engaged. This is now silky smooth! Very Happy.

Thanks Auni. Interesting.
I bought the same lens in late 2009 after the M9 came out, new from B&H.
It didn't focus correctly.
Sent it in to Leica ib NJ IIRC. Came back. Still not focusing precisely.
I gave up, as it is sort of useable. :facesmack:

Back then on my new M9 the framing selector didn't work.
Sent it in for repair to Leica Germany, came back fixed but with a dirty sensor.
Lately my M9 has developed leprosy. It needs a new sensor. :banghead:
Where should I sent it? NJ? or Germany?

Thanks again for the info.
 

Auni

Member
Thanks Auni. Interesting.
I bought the same lens in late 2009 after the M9 came out, new from B&H.
It didn't focus correctly.
Sent it in to Leica ib NJ IIRC. Came back. Still not focusing precisely.
I gave up, as it is sort of useable. :facesmack:

Back then on my new M9 the framing selector didn't work.
Sent it in for repair to Leica Germany, came back fixed but with a dirty sensor.
Lately my M9 has developed leprosy. It needs a new sensor. :banghead:
Where should I sent it? NJ? or Germany?

Thanks again for the info.
I have told you all I know. Give a call to Roxanne. She is the modern day Carmen Vargas. Let her know you have a sensor M9 issue. Ask if they have sensors and when you should send it in so it doesn't just sit there. Then call in a week or so after you send it in. Then call back in a few weeks and always talk to Roxanne. Don't leave messages and don't email unless she emails you.

Good luck. :)
 

erudolph

Member
I have told you all I know. Give a call to Roxanne. She is the modern day Carmen Vargas. Let her know you have a sensor M9 issue. Ask if they have sensors and when you should send it in so it doesn't just sit there. Then call in a week or so after you send it in. Then call back in a few weeks and always talk to Roxanne. Don't leave messages and don't email unless she emails you.

Good luck. :)
I have recently heard that Roxanne is no longer with Leica in NJ. If that's true, I'm sorry to see her go. She has been very helpful to me in the past.
 

pesto

Member
Last week I shipped my 30-90 S lens to Allendale to have its autofocus mechanism repaired. It arrived there on Friday and today I received an email from Roxana Lynch acknowledging that they have received the lens and that it is on its way to Germany.
Credit where credit is due...well done!
 
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JonPB

New member
Seeing as how this thread is still pretty high up in the forum, I thought I'd add my own experiences:

Sent my M9 to New Jersey without an RMA in November, just the printed service form. The Leica USA website indicates that this is the proper service procedure.

Sent an email asking for a status update over two months later. I tried to be polite and to not push the issue, just wondering what was happening.

Received the M9 back a week or so later, in early February, without any correspondence at any time. UPS just sent me a shipping notice. Leica USA had fixed my sensor and swapped a suspicious battery at no charge.

Leica also included with the camera a note indicating that they are still manufacturing batteries for the M9, which increases my confidence in the longevity of the M9 platform.

I wish it happened faster, and I wish they could provide better communication, but they eventually took care of me. Fortunately, I expected this sort of thing to happen, which is why I bought two cameras of older vintage rather than the most recent model. I suspect at some point my luck will run out and my gear will be silently deprecated. Sigh. If the gear weren't so nice to use and didn't produce such nice results, I'd happily go elsewhere. Or if the service improved, I could feel confident buying the latest and the greatest. Instead, stuck in the middle ... where things are quite nice when they work properly.

May f/4 be with you, always,
Jon
 

fotografz

Well-known member
I have to say that I've been very satisfied with Leica repair over the last 9 years, mostly. Also, it seems to be getting faster.

My last experience was a couple months ago with a 50 Summilux FLE with a loose lens mount. I sent it in with a written note and followed up with a phone call about a week and a half later. I called Roxanne and she answered. I explained my problem with my lens and she addressed me by name (caller ID?) and she was immediately aware of who I was and said, she noted that it was in for the same repair before and she had a technician working on it presently and I should have it back in about two weeks.

Sure enough, I received it in just under 4 weeks round trip. I was not contacted that it was sent, though. It just arrived. No charge.

I read all of these posts that seem to repeat that people have been waiting and heard nothing. My strategy is to send it in and then call my contact and speak directly to them. It seems to work. I have had to call back a second time on occasion. But, I always follow up.

Here is the contact info that works for me and I hope it helps anyone having troubles. I can imagine how frustrating it must be.

UPS Account 082590
Roxana Lynch Ext. 9931
[email protected]
So, if everyone with a repair calls Roxana can she handle the volume? Why should such expensive products require that you "know someone" who may or may not answer the phone ... next it'll be a secret handshake.

Also, they return these expensive items, signature required, but don't warn you they are coming ... as if everyone is sitting at home indefinitely waiting for their Leica lens or camera to get back home.

Leica may be a small maker in the scope of things, but they are not a "Mom & Pop" shop either.

I will say that something seems to be getting better ... my repaired CS35 wasn't totally lost and never found like my CS70 was, and the 35mm is allegedly coming back sometime next week 1.3 months after sending it in ... but that could be due to intervention by Tony Rose of Pop Flash who "Knows someone AND the Secret Handshake". Thank you Tony!!!!

- Marc
 

amur99

Member
So, if everyone with a repair calls Roxana can she handle the volume? Why should such expensive products require that you "know someone" who may or may not answer the phone ... next it'll be a secret handshake.

Also, they return these expensive items, signature required, but don't warn you they are coming ... as if everyone is sitting at home indefinitely waiting for their Leica lens or camera to get back home.

Leica may be a small maker in the scope of things, but they are not a "Mom & Pop" shop either.

I will say that something seems to be getting better ... my repaired CS35 wasn't totally lost and never found like my CS70 was, and the 35mm is allegedly coming back sometime next week 1.3 months after sending it in ... but that could be due to intervention by Tony Rose of Pop Flash who "Knows someone AND the Secret Handshake". Thank you Tony!!!!

- Marc

1.3 months - lucky you. Going on 4 months for my S camera and 35 lens. Numerous calls and emails to Leica USA have never been returned. Finally contacted Leica Germany - said they will expedite the repair and keep me updated - we'll see.
 

fotografz

Well-known member
1.3 months - lucky you. Going on 4 months for my S camera and 35 lens. Numerous calls and emails to Leica USA have never been returned. Finally contacted Leica Germany - said they will expedite the repair and keep me updated - we'll see.
Well, I don't actually have the lens in hand yet, just info from Tony Rose, (who interceded on my behalf) that it is coming this week. So we'll see ... I'll believe it when I do have it in hand. Not a peep from Leica about shipment.
 

aDam007

New member
Had good experience with Leica SG. The Q for some reason wouldn't keep a SD card down. You know when it clicks in and stays in.. Well no click no stay. So I brought the camera in Friday night (they don't work weekends so it might as well have been Monday morning). The Q was returned to me fixed on WEDNESDAY. Which is pretty awesome two day turn around. Something I'd expect from a luxury brand, but have grown use to not seeing from Leica. Either way props to Leica SG for the quick turn around, and I can use it on my trip to Melbourne and not have to pack my M.

(BTW this is my third Q, can't seem to want to keep them long, but miss them when they're gone. A short trip to Leica was a quick reminder I shouldn't sell this one.)
 

jdphoto

Well-known member
Had good experience with Leica SG. The Q for some reason wouldn't keep a SD card down. You know when it clicks in and stays in.. Well no click no stay. So I brought the camera in Friday night (they don't work weekends so it might as well have been Monday morning). The Q was returned to me fixed on WEDNESDAY. Which is pretty awesome two day turn around. Something I'd expect from a luxury brand, but have grown use to not seeing from Leica. Either way props to Leica SG for the quick turn around, and I can use it on my trip to Melbourne and not have to pack my M.

(BTW this is my third Q, can't seem to want to keep them long, but miss them when they're gone. A short trip to Leica was a quick reminder I shouldn't sell this one.)
That's encouraging news from Leica. I too, am considering the Q. It just fits my style for environmental portraits with it's 28mm Summilux, fast FPS, AF, 1/500th flash sync, and fantastic EVF. I have also sold cameras/lenses to fund other purchases, but sometimes come back to those same cameras and lenses. Some just have more character regardless of the convenience or bells and whistles. I miss my M9, but almost always used a wide angle, so the Q just looks right with much better features.
 
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