Moving from Phase One to GFX

[paulraphael]

Colours, tonality and ability to pull shadows up. Capture one, landscape, 80mm and 110mm

All very subjective,

Not subjective. The Phase has 1/2 stop more dynamic range (tonality, ability to pull up shadows), due to having the same pixels over a 50% greater area. This is what's been measured (see photons to photos) and is precisely what you'd expect.

Color differences are due to your raw processing formula.

 

[dougpeterson]

Not subjective. The Phase has 1/2 stop more dynamic range (tonality, ability to pull up shadows), due to having the same pixels over a 50% greater area. This is what's been measured (see photons to photos) and is precisely what you'd expect.

Color differences are due to your raw processing formula.

I'd argue it's significantly more than half a stop when you look at the subjective aesthetics of recovered deep shadows and linearity of hue near blown highlights.

We've done a fair bit of real world testing on this for our film scanning systems – one of the two common use cases where dynamic range really matters a lot (the other being broad daylight landscape/architecture/interior). I wrote an article "In Depth on Bit Depth" about it, but I'm unfortunately not allowed to link to it (since my company competes with the forum sponsor).

With the IQ4 you also have the option for Frame Averaging and Dual Exposure+ modes; those hugely improve effective dynamic range.

Also, the greater pixel density is just one factor in a rather complex engineering chain that results in the final practical dynamic range. CFA, internal baffling of the body and lens, quality of the optical coatings, the sensor, how the camera implements/drives the sensor, heat retention/dissipation, dark frame technology, just to mention a few. As a rule of thumb, anytime you see a difference in two completely different cameras described "because of X" there is usually more nuance than that.

 

[rdeloe]

I'd argue it's significantly more than half a stop when you look at the subjective aesthetics of recovered deep shadows and linearity of hue near blown highlights.

We've done a fair bit of real world testing on this for our film scanning systems – one of the two common use cases where dynamic range really matters a lot (the other being broad daylight landscape/architecture/interior). I wrote an article "In Depth on Bit Depth" about it, but I'm unfortunately not allowed to link to it (since my company competes with the forum sponsor).

With the IQ4 you also have the option for Frame Averaging and Dual Exposure+ modes; those hugely improve effective dynamic range.

Also, the greater pixel density is just one factor in a rather complex engineering chain that results in the final practical dynamic range. CFA, internal baffling of the body and lens, quality of the optical coatings, the sensor, how the camera implements/drives the sensor, heat retention/dissipation, dark frame technology, just to mention a few. As a rule of thumb, anytime you see a difference in two completely different cameras described "because of X" there is usually more nuance than that.

That was an interesting article Doug. Cats are indeed glorious.

 

[pieve]

After one shoot with the GFX 100S icw 80mm f/1.7, I'm truly amazed. It really has everything my Phase One XF system lacks (for my personal use case), and it fits my beloved LC-X shoulder bag I kept when I sold my X-T2 years ago.

 

[Ray Harrison]

After one shoot with the GFX 100S icw 80mm f/1.7, I'm truly amazed. It really has everything my Phase One XF system lacks (for my personal use case), and it fits my beloved LC-X shoulder bag I kept when I sold my X-T2 years ago.

Great! Solving for your own needs is the best outcome, for sure.

 

[Bill Caulfeild-Browne]

I'd argue it's significantly more than half a stop when you look at the subjective aesthetics of recovered deep shadows and linearity of hue near blown highlights.

We've done a fair bit of real world testing on this for our film scanning systems – one of the two common use cases where dynamic range really matters a lot (the other being broad daylight landscape/architecture/interior). I wrote an article "In Depth on Bit Depth" about it, but I'm unfortunately not allowed to link to it (since my company competes with the forum sponsor).

With the IQ4 you also have the option for Frame Averaging and Dual Exposure+ modes; those hugely improve effective dynamic range.

Also, the greater pixel density is just one factor in a rather complex engineering chain that results in the final practical dynamic range. CFA, internal baffling of the body and lens, quality of the optical coatings, the sensor, how the camera implements/drives the sensor, heat retention/dissipation, dark frame technology, just to mention a few. As a rule of thumb, anytime you see a difference in two completely different cameras described "because of X" there is usually more nuance than that.

Dynamic range is the biggest single reason I love my Phase gear. I have directly compared files from the Sony AR4 and my Leica M11. The IQ4 , in my tests (landscapes mostly) has a full stop DR advantage. And that's without using Dual Exposure.

 

[cunim]

@doug, well said. I can never figure out quite what camera manufacturers mean by dynamic range. Back in the day I spent my life doing quantitative imaging of radiographs, and of biological and chemical specimens (fluorescence, luminescence, scintillation). Our general rule of thumb was 12 bits is about the limit for an array-based transillumination system, if you can control stray light. With film, you need a spot-type system (lasers are good) to quantify opacities greater than about 2.5D with any linearity. To gain any optical benefit from higher precisions forget about any form of incident illumination and capture targets that occupy a small portion of the total range. Otherwise scattered light from the targets, the sensor, and the lens components will swamp things. By the time you get to 15 and 16 bits you need glacial rates of readout, cryogenic cooling and sensors that cost more than an entire IQ4 150 system - with lenses.

So, now that I do photography, I simply accept bit density specifications as rough indications of how well engineered the quantization electronics are. Oh, and I eagerly read the published bit specs saying "Yep, I need those 16 bits.". You know, it's kinda fun not caring if it makes sense or not.. Can you PM a link to your article?

 

[4x5Australian]

Can you PM a link to your article?

I found the article by searching in Bing using "In Depth on Bit Depth", including the inverted commas. The article is dated May 5, 2023.

 

[drevil]

I'm in for the large sensor dreaming. 6x6 with around 60mp would be really nice!

HB users have been dreaming about this sensor for like 2 decades now, i think the dreaming can be stopped now

 

[anyone]

HB users have been dreaming about this sensor for like 2 decades now, i think the dreaming can be stopped now

or Hasselblad listens and builds it! Native 500c/m would be nice

 

[Kathmoor]

I see various threads about moving from heavy MF gear to crop MF and even to 35mm FF. Understandable. there are lots of applications in which manipulating a boat anchor is impractical. However, I am really impressed with my IQ4 back and, for most of what I do (fully manual, studio), there is no substitute for full size MF and the spectacular lenses that go with it. That's my answer to the OP of this thread. You will make compromises if the 250 you give up is your only full size camera. Only you know if those matter.

That said, I can't carry around a major MF rig while I stroll about or walk the dog. I'm too old and lazy and the dog makes a lousy tripod. I enjoy MF and I don't have to (couldn't) make a living at photography so MF it is for both studio and strolling. Therefore, I am about to add a lighter crop kit. Seems like a golden age for that, what with the GFX100s, the XCD2, and the new GFX100 coming momentarily. Leica, I understand, will introduce a mirrorless S4 sometime in the next year. A few years ago, a compact MF kit would have seemed very far off, but now we have options. Amazing, all things considered.

Try a German shorthaired pointer… toss out a dead bird, and they will hold Stockstill for your shots!