To assess what would now be a realistic market value of a used IQ4-150 in view of the just released CFV-100C?
To assess whether or not such priced IQ4-150 is preferable over the CFV-100C?
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When will IQ4 150 hit sub US $10k?
- Thread starter Maxx9photo
- Start date
To assess whether or not such priced IQ4-150 is preferable over the CFV-100C?
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
The only way to assess market value is not by asking, is by looking at prices of transactions.
I think there's no or barely a price impact from the CFV-100c. It is a cropped, lower res, reduced functionality variant of the same tech.
It doesn't even work with C1 and you're relegated to annoying double raw conversion workflows if you want to distortion correct simple tech cam pics done with Rodie glass.
And its not Phase 1 - no x shutter, no XF / XT.
People owning IQ4 have no reason to downgrade except if they want to "make 8-10" grand by significantly downgrading. Makes 0 sense.
The question is more whether people wanting to exit altogether get less - I'd assume not really. The market is not flush with IQ4s. These are fantastic sensors.
Lastly, why sell an IQ4 if the next-gen IQ will keep its residual value around or above the 20k mark?
For the next years there's also nothing new to be expected from Fuji and Hassy until Sony produces new sensor tech for them too ... and P1 usually gets first dibs. So for the foreseeable future nothing's gonna chnage. The CFV100c didn't change the value proposition of the IQ4 and on top it looks like the PDAF on the sensors might lead to ugly artifacts on the chip when shooting in direct sunlight ... let's see what user feedbacks say to this over time.
I think there's no or barely a price impact from the CFV-100c. It is a cropped, lower res, reduced functionality variant of the same tech.
It doesn't even work with C1 and you're relegated to annoying double raw conversion workflows if you want to distortion correct simple tech cam pics done with Rodie glass.
And its not Phase 1 - no x shutter, no XF / XT.
People owning IQ4 have no reason to downgrade except if they want to "make 8-10" grand by significantly downgrading. Makes 0 sense.
The question is more whether people wanting to exit altogether get less - I'd assume not really. The market is not flush with IQ4s. These are fantastic sensors.
Lastly, why sell an IQ4 if the next-gen IQ will keep its residual value around or above the 20k mark?
For the next years there's also nothing new to be expected from Fuji and Hassy until Sony produces new sensor tech for them too ... and P1 usually gets first dibs. So for the foreseeable future nothing's gonna chnage. The CFV100c didn't change the value proposition of the IQ4 and on top it looks like the PDAF on the sensors might lead to ugly artifacts on the chip when shooting in direct sunlight ... let's see what user feedbacks say to this over time.
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Steve Hendrix
Well-known member
Historically, Phase One has shown themselves to be - immune, ignorant, impervious, insensitive, indifferent, pick any - to price evolutions to counter much lower priced products. I think they will retain their pricing strategy until the market no longer supports it at all (and we're far from there yet). With so much activity occurring with the industrial/heritage/aerial segments where they are often not even near the most expensive option, they can continue to create premium quality capture solutions for the consumer market at the current price until such a time when it makes absolutely no sense to continue. Which I think is a good ways off (as in years and years). So don't hold your breath.
This is the pricing territory they choose to be in, and it really doesn't matter where Fujifilm or Hasselblad (or Sony or Canon, for that matter) price their products at. Phase One will never adjust their pricing to compete with those companies at, or dramatically nearer to, those sub $10k price points. To them, it makes no sense to do so, and I agree.
Steve Hendrix/CI
This is the pricing territory they choose to be in, and it really doesn't matter where Fujifilm or Hasselblad (or Sony or Canon, for that matter) price their products at. Phase One will never adjust their pricing to compete with those companies at, or dramatically nearer to, those sub $10k price points. To them, it makes no sense to do so, and I agree.
Steve Hendrix/CI
That really does explain it.
Phase WAS the 800 lb gorilla in clout with Sony on medium format sensor technology. back when the IQ4 sensor was released. Now, it's a Chihuahua compared to Fuji/Hasselblad.
Mexecutioner
Well-known member
not really, OP is just looking for attention, like he’s done in the past.
interestingly enough, he just throws an opinion into the room and let all the others fight it out, he hasnt responded a single time so far
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
Forum pyromaniac
On 14 June 2028.
I hope it helps
@OP - you can already pick them up privately for less than $20k since (here in the UK at least) the dealer trade-in value is 'only' about $16k for one in excellent condition ($9k for a beat up one). So there's lots of head room to sell privately rather than to a dealer.
Even after the 'mythical' IQ5 is released I'm sure their value will hang around the mid 'teens' (for minty ones) since there will be plenty of people who won't be able to justify ponying up $$$$ for a 200MP back that effectively only offers one extra pixel in every seven (over the 150MP version), thus making the 150MP DB sought after. That said, some of those DBs are now pushing 6 years old with no warranty, so forking out $$$$ for a used one could be seen as a bit of a gamble (yeah, yeah, I know P1 DBs are supposed to be bomb proof, but none of us gets any younger with age).
Even after the 'mythical' IQ5 is released I'm sure their value will hang around the mid 'teens' (for minty ones) since there will be plenty of people who won't be able to justify ponying up $$$$ for a 200MP back that effectively only offers one extra pixel in every seven (over the 150MP version), thus making the 150MP DB sought after. That said, some of those DBs are now pushing 6 years old with no warranty, so forking out $$$$ for a used one could be seen as a bit of a gamble (yeah, yeah, I know P1 DBs are supposed to be bomb proof, but none of us gets any younger with age).
The IQ4-150 is a vexing preposition. Now getting prehistoric but still top dog with no successor in sight.
For me the two major features missing from the CFV-100c are:
- two exposure (highlight, shadow) averaging, like IQ4's Dual EXP+
- long exposure shot averaging, like IQ4's automatic frame averaging
Maybe a Mark II CFV-100c ...
John Black
Active member
But there are factors in favor of the Hasselblad 100c, for example you could beat it to bits with a hammer, buy a second new one and still be into for less than one used IQ4-150. Technical considerations like battery life and how the batteries perform in different conditions (temperatures). I'd wager the the LV is better on the Hasselblad. The 100c has a tilt-able screen. Start up times. Out of camera colors. Out of camera AWB. Frame averaging can be done in post. I'm not saying it's quick, but it can be done in PS. Kudos to Phase for making it an in camera function.
The real litmus test will be when people get their their 100c's and start using them with their respective tech cams. For most people, I'm guessing of course, it'll come down to quality of the capture (like vignetting / cast / tints) and if they are okay working with a slightly wider lens to get around the crop factor. The widest lens I had was a Rodenstock 40mm HR, so for a comparable FOV (before any shifting, etc.), I'd need a 32mm HR instead. At that point the Schneider lenses might be more attractive for their rendering / handling of distortion.
For people who don't own an IQ4-150 and are looking to get a DB on their tech cam (or whatever the case may be), I think the Hasselblad DB will be a pretty easy choice. Plus, they get a "free" AF camera as an extra - can't complain too much about that. If Hasselblad did a monochrome version of the 100c, or a monochrome X2D, they'd sure as heck have my attention. I've been using C1 for 20 years, but I'm adaptable
The real litmus test will be when people get their their 100c's and start using them with their respective tech cams. For most people, I'm guessing of course, it'll come down to quality of the capture (like vignetting / cast / tints) and if they are okay working with a slightly wider lens to get around the crop factor. The widest lens I had was a Rodenstock 40mm HR, so for a comparable FOV (before any shifting, etc.), I'd need a 32mm HR instead. At that point the Schneider lenses might be more attractive for their rendering / handling of distortion.
For people who don't own an IQ4-150 and are looking to get a DB on their tech cam (or whatever the case may be), I think the Hasselblad DB will be a pretty easy choice. Plus, they get a "free" AF camera as an extra - can't complain too much about that. If Hasselblad did a monochrome version of the 100c, or a monochrome X2D, they'd sure as heck have my attention. I've been using C1 for 20 years, but I'm adaptable
Paul Spinnler
Well-known member
Who owning an IQ4 feels now enticed to sell it to get a CFV100c?
I'd be surprised if there's a lot of people raising their hands. It literally would be to get 8k cash or so.
There's many limitations:
1) No C1 - ie cumbersome workflow for Rodie glass
2) No x shutter
3) No FA
4) No double exposurne
5) Crop
Not enticing at all. Just save 12k more, get an IQ4 and be happy to get a 25k trade-in value once the IQ5 launches.
Fuji and Hasy had their shot – nothing new to be expected for years and IQ4 is still differentiated and unique.
IQ4 sales are forced sellers or people not needing the back, but not downtraders. Except, as said, urgent cash need.
CFV100c is great for newbies, but not for those alreasy in the P1 upgrade club.
I'd be surprised if there's a lot of people raising their hands. It literally would be to get 8k cash or so.
There's many limitations:
1) No C1 - ie cumbersome workflow for Rodie glass
2) No x shutter
3) No FA
4) No double exposurne
5) Crop
Not enticing at all. Just save 12k more, get an IQ4 and be happy to get a 25k trade-in value once the IQ5 launches.
Fuji and Hasy had their shot – nothing new to be expected for years and IQ4 is still differentiated and unique.
IQ4 sales are forced sellers or people not needing the back, but not downtraders. Except, as said, urgent cash need.
CFV100c is great for newbies, but not for those alreasy in the P1 upgrade club.
AreBee
Member
Where prior to its release the IQ4 150 was the sole option for those interested in a BSI sensor of significant resolution, now some fraction of individuals will instead purchase a CFV 100c. If the pool of prospective IQ4 150 purchasers has reduced, the effect on the used price for it will be adverse.
The question is not if the IQ4 150 used price will take a hit—it will—but its extent, and in this respect I consider the answer to be "not significant" for as long as Phase One enjoys a monopoly on full frame sensor size.
The question is not if the IQ4 150 used price will take a hit—it will—but its extent, and in this respect I consider the answer to be "not significant" for as long as Phase One enjoys a monopoly on full frame sensor size.
This may have been written in jest but I consider the year approximately correct.
I call it "Bait & Ditch" or farting in the front of the buffet line.
True, but it does work like a charm in eliciting yet another breathless update from phaserumors.com.
Mexecutioner
Well-known member
Hahaha that sums it up for sure
Maxx9photo
Active member
Well, I was asking for a friend! when I used to have the IQ4, this person is actually harassing me to sell mine sub $15k.
I know, It won't happen anytime soon! since we're stubborn enough to hold on 2018 technology! yes it still holds value but c'mon now even Hasselblad has updated their 2019 CFV 50C II!
That said, happy shooting!
I know, It won't happen anytime soon! since we're stubborn enough to hold on 2018 technology! yes it still holds value but c'mon now even Hasselblad has updated their 2019 CFV 50C II!
That said, happy shooting!
Mexecutioner
Well-known member
We?