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X2D arrived but weighing M11 instead. Appreciate any insight/advice.

hcubell

Well-known member
This is truly an apples to oranges comparison, as the two camera systems are so fundamentally different in so many ways. Both camera systems are fully capable of producing exceptional imagery in the right hands, but the experience of getting there is totally different. Even for landscapes, I personally would never choose a M11. I NEED longer focal length lenses, and an M is useless with anything longer than 90mm. I also think it is useless for anything wider than 28m. I need to see with my eyes what the lens is doing. I dont need AF for landscapes, but it is much more accurate than RF focusing. As for the quality of the lenses, the XCD lenses are exceptional. For landscapes, i Have seen no actual evidence that they are not at least the equal of M lenses. Do they have that Leica magic that Leicaphiles claim? I don’t know what it is, but I am confident that in landscape photography, you would not notice it. A “clinical” look in landscape photography is what people look for when they are shooting high megapixel systems. Photographing people is another matter, but I think 95%+ of whats important in making a great image comes down to the capabilities of the photographer, not the equipment. What’s most important about the equipment is what do you most enjoy using to make photographs and what facilitates what you trying to do.
 

Omarnk

New member
This is truly an apples to oranges comparison, as the two camera systems are so fundamentally different in so many ways. Both camera systems are fully capable of producing exceptional imagery in the right hands, but the experience of getting there is totally different. Even for landscapes, I personally would never choose a M11. I NEED longer focal length lenses, and an M is useless with anything longer than 90mm. I also think it is useless for anything wider than 28m. I need to see with my eyes what the lens is doing. I dont need AF for landscapes, but it is much more accurate than RF focusing. As for the quality of the lenses, the XCD lenses are exceptional. For landscapes, i Have seen no actual evidence that they are not at least the equal of M lenses. Do they have that Leica magic that Leicaphiles claim? I don’t know what it is, but I am confident that in landscape photography, you would not notice it. A “clinical” look in landscape photography is what people look for when they are shooting high megapixel systems. Photographing people is another matter, but I think 95%+ of whats important in making a great image comes down to the capabilities of the photographer, not the equipment. What’s most important about the equipment is what do you most enjoy using to make photographs and what facilitates what you trying to do.
Thanks, Yes, it's a fair point regarding the experience of getting to the image. I don't think there needs to be a sharpness comparison between XCD lenses and M lenses. They can both be equally excellent for landscapes. For me personally, I never go wider than 28mm for landscapes or longer than 50-75mm (in full frame terms) for subject isolation. In fact for both contextual family shots and landscapes, I never really need to go outside the 28mm-50mm range. I guess in an ideal world I'd probably invest in both the X2D and the M11, but I went down that route with the X1D and the M10 a couple of years back and never seemed to get the most out of either system fully. Now, with the X2D and the M11, due to advances in both, we can realistically have the possibility of just one, very versatile system that can do multiple things very effectively.
 

Omarnk

New member
Thanks all for your kind responses. I think I'm prepared to let go of the X2D and 38mm. No matter how hard I try to big up the X2Ds pretty awesome specs, I keep returning to the look I want from those darn M lenses! :) I've agonised over this and many will probably think I've lost the plot letting go of a brand new Hasselblad medium format camera, but for my needs I think the M11 would be more than enough. So, on that note, if anybody would like a brand new, unopened, untouched, boxed, still in its bubble wrap X2D and 38mm lens, please send me a private message or via email to [email protected]. The kit was bought from Robert White Photographic in Poole, UK (can produce pictures of the invoice and the boxed camera) and shipped internationally to me here in Kuwait, so there would be VAT and currency savings for anybody buying from outside the UK. I will probably advertise it on Facebook shortly before I go the ebay route (lyn4584). Thanks again guys--your comments and insights were very valuable.
 

jaree

Member
Edit: As soon as I posted, I saw the post above. So, I guess enjoy the M11! You can't go wrong either way.

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I had the M11 and if you are looking for the smallest FF interchangeable lens camera with no compromise IQ there is no peer. I have also used M10-R and all older variants going back to the M9.

I was skeptical of rangefinder accuracy at 60MP but was proven wrong. When focused carefully, it was as good as what I got with magnified live-view in EVF. The rangefinder mechanism has improved a lot since the M9 and is a lot more robust.

With all this said, I sold my M11. Why? I have the X1DII and there is "something" about its output, esp the colors that I find it hard to replicate with any other system without a lot of fiddling around in postprocessing. X2D has two things that I wish X1DII had - IBIS and tilting LCD. Hence, order for X2D was placed and M11 sacrificed for financial discipline. If I had unlimited funds, I would keep the M11.

The siren song of the M system is too strong though, hence I am keeping my M lenses.

To the OP, my suggestion is to go ahead and enjoy your X2D. Based on what I see with the X1DII, X2D should have the same stunning Hasselblad rendering and delicious colors. The ergonomics are unmatched and XCD lenses are top of the heap.

Now if you do like a smaller size, go for the M11, but know that it is not exactly lightweight and with a lens like the Summilux 28, it gets heavy fast. Add on the EVF and you have a rig that is getting even bigger.
 

Paul Spinnler

Active member
Thanks all for your kind responses. I think I'm prepared to let go of the X2D and 38mm. No matter how hard I try to big up the X2Ds pretty awesome specs, I keep returning to the look I want from those darn M lenses! :) I've agonised over this and many will probably think I've lost the plot letting go of a brand new Hasselblad medium format camera, but for my needs I think the M11 would be more than enough. So, on that note, if anybody would like a brand new, unopened, untouched, boxed, still in its bubble wrap X2D and 38mm lens, please send me a private message or via email to [email protected]. The kit was bought from Robert White Photographic in Poole, UK (can produce pictures of the invoice and the boxed camera) and shipped internationally to me here in Kuwait, so there would be VAT and currency savings for anybody buying from outside the UK. I will probably advertise it on Facebook shortly before I go the ebay route (lyn4584). Thanks again guys--your comments and insights were very valuable.
Nothing is lost - you will make a minor if any loss on the new X2D and you can always go there later if you feel the urge. Don't forget - Team Leica is also not sleeping and they will come back with a strong reply to the X with the S4 - all your M lenses will work perfectly and there's hoping that they further tweak colours too.

Great choice!
 

algrove

Well-known member
I might add it seems there is an SL3 on the horizon, perhaps with a 60MP chip and it will also take M lenses with Leica adapter.
 

Paul Spinnler

Active member
M11M and SL3 will come after March 2023 (fiscal year end of Leica) to straighten revenues and giving M11 room to breathe. Would assume SL3 before Summer and M11M after Summer given their release histories. Ie M11M is a year away, in the worst case.
 
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Paul Spinnler

Active member
I would not be surprised to see an official AF adapter for SL3 and S4 for Leica M lenses. It would be tricky for SL3, but if they redesign the S4 with a lower focal flange distance they could make it happen. Would not discount the Leica riposte to Hassy. Don’t forget that Panasonic is helping too …
 

SrMphoto

Active member
M11M and SL3 will come after March 2023 (fiscal year end of Leica) to straighten revenues and giving M11 room to breathe. Would assume SL3 before Summer and M11M after Summer given their release histories. Ie M11M is a year away, in the worst case.
Code names for M11M and Q3 are known (Wilson and Rene). I do not believe that SL3 will be launched before M11M and Q3.
 

Paul Spinnler

Active member
The SL2 was launched Nov 2019 and M10M beg. of 2020. Leica doesn't announce anything before fiscal year end which is end of March. We might see a new Summilux 50 with the new features from the 35 FLE2 and the 21 or 24 SL as an X-mas present, ie better transmission glass (the new FLE2 is a bit better optically, although the formula is the same they use glasses which are more transmissive), close focusing mechanism, etc.

So typically it would make sense to launch the SL3 before Summer and then the M11M after the Summer - you want to give products room to breathe. Yes, from a good source I heard both are in development.

One doesnt need to be a magician to project that both new cameras will have 60 MPX as headline feature with the M11M adopting the other features of the M11, ie in camera charging, new battery system, etc.

SL3 is a key focus for them you can see how much marketing they do for the line on their channel. I would hope the camera merges the two lines SL2-S and SL2 and just improves on all features, ie even better EVF, longer battery life, RAW video, etc.

I honestly believe next year will be banger for Leica and 2024 will be the year the ultimate camera comes out the S4.

I will skip all the cameras in between to fill up the piggy bank for it as it will come with some amazing glass, I'd assume - I sincerely hope for 2.0 aperture through the line, fully APO, fully weather sealed, with a true 1.4 nugget later on.

Can you imagine? Some tasty APO 2.0 MFD glass from Leica - will hurt the wallet, for sure.
 
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