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Thread: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Has anyone who's tried the camera used the wifi and app to control the camera or offload pictures? I tried to connect camera and my iPad in the Leica store and they didn't see each other. In addition, the folks at the store weren't able to get it to work yet with anyone. Not sure if it is enabled in the firmware they are running, we are doing something wrong or that the functionality doesn't work that great.

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Has anyone who's tried the camera used the wifi and app to control the camera or offload pictures? I tried to connect camera and my iPad in the Leica store and they didn't see each other. In addition, the folks at the store weren't able to get it to work yet with anyone. Not sure if it is enabled in the firmware they are running, we are doing something wrong or that the functionality doesn't work that great.
    When I tested mine in the Leica Store Vienna they told me that the current FW does still not work for WiFi. So this seems to be something which needs to be fixed in the final FW.

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi There Scott
    Have you actually SEEN the claim - or was it something that someone construed from an interview? It's just that I've always known there were lens corrections, and I don't think there was any question of that being a secret.

    It's so stupid to pretend there were none when it's obvious that there are that I wonder whether it was a combination of careless talk and misinterpretation in an interview. Certainly I can't believe that it was a company policy to pretend there weren't.

    all the best
    Jono
    From DPreview:

    During pre-launch briefings for the T, Leica was very keen to stress the optical quality of the new lenses. Most interestingly, we were told they relied on optical corrections, rather than software to project the best possible image onto the sensor. So with this in mind, when processing some images from the Leica T, we were surprised by a notification that Adobe Camera Raw gave us.
    It seemed Leica had given some people the idea. Apparently, you were told more than the marketing folks or the marketing folks might have thought no one would find out because in most situations you cannot turn it off. Either way, the expectations were there. In a pre-launch meeting, those specs would be known.

    Leica T lenses: Correcting some distortions: Digital Photography Review

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Every digital camera sold today uses software correction. Next topic?
    Brad Husick
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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    Every digital camera sold today uses software correction. Next topic?
    What is wrong? There have been some questions asked about this topic and some of us would like to discuss this. You do not have to participate nor even read those posts.

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi There Scott
    Have you actually SEEN the claim - or was it something that someone construed from an interview? It's just that I've always known there were lens corrections, and I don't think there was any question of that being a secret.
    I'll check to see if any early reviewers other than DPReview say this or only early bloggers. I haven't spotted this in any material that Leica has put out.

    scott
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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    What is wrong? There have been some questions asked about this topic and some of us would like to discuss this. You do not have to participate nor even read those posts.
    Nothing's wrong. I enjoy reading these. I just find it mildly amusing that so many people are concerned that a digital camera might use software.

    News flash: Digital cameras DON'T use film! More on this breaking story at 11.

    Brad Husick
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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    Nothing's wrong. I enjoy reading these. I just find it mildly amusing that so many people are concerned that a digital camera might use software.

    News flash: Digital cameras DON'T use film! More on this breaking story at 11.

    Yes, but you come off as rather patronizing, whether you intend to or not.

    The issue here is not whether digital cameras use software, but how Leica was going to design the lenses. Were they actually going to try an make optics that needed no corrections. That would be pretty amazing and a departure from most, but not all, digital lens designs (not all digital cameras actually have lens correction). Leica has a reputation of designing excellent lenses that make few compromises. It would be interesting to see how much work they would put into these Japanese manufactured lenses for an APS system.

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by scott kirkpatrick View Post
    I'll check to see if any early reviewers other than DPReview say this or only early bloggers. I haven't spotted this in any material that Leica has put out.

    scott
    Exactly! DPR says they were told ...

    Even if this were true, it makes you wonder how much those DPR 'journalists' know about contemporary optical design. Just about every lens maker provides, together with software developers, digital corrections nowadays. Heck, Phase and Hasselblad do it with their lenses that cost much, much more. Ditto for Leica S. Simply believing a company representative that says otherwise makes these 'journalist' appear quite naive.

    It seems to me almost as if DPR willingly tried to harm Leica's reputation. They could have just contacted Leica and given the right information, leave it at that, instead of calling the company representatives liars.
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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by peterv View Post
    Exactly! DPR says they were told ...

    Even if this were true, it makes you wonder how much those DPR 'journalists' know about contemporary optical design. Just about every lens maker provides, together with software developers, digital corrections nowadays. Heck, Phase and Hasselblad do it with their lenses that cost much, much more. Ditto for Leica S. Simply believing a company representative that says otherwise makes these 'journalist' appear quite naive.

    It seems to me almost as if DPR willingly tried to harm Leica's reputation. They could have just contacted Leica and given the right information, leave it at that, instead of calling the company representatives liars.
    Wow. in a pre-launch meeting, you first assumption is the people giving the information are simply wrong! And so your are naive for reporting what you are told?

    What is the benefit of DPR libeling a manufacturer? Is that so they can be blackballed by the manufacture? But it does make a pleasant change from bashing DPR as simply stooges for the camera companies. Certainly, it could not have been a mis-communication from Leica...

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    I could not agree more with Jono! I would really like to see where Leica officially claims that there are no lens corrections done for the T lenses! I never saw this claimed by Leica, but I remember seeing such claims from other non Leica sources on the Interent. As usual

    ...
    Who cares if there is software correction or not, as long as you can't see any image quality depreciation in the final image?
    I would be worried if there were soft corners or anything lie that, but otherwise...?

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    What is wrong? There have been some questions asked about this topic and some of us would like to discuss this. You do not have to participate nor even read those posts.
    Just BORING discussion !!!!!!

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Whatever. The question is whether the camera and lenses perform satisfactorily and to expectations. I could care less whether the Leica spokesperson misspoke, or whether the DPR folks heard incorrectly. These lenses are designed for and will never be used on anything but a Leica T, so if the images they make on the Leica T as designed meet expectations the rest is just hooey.

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Just BORING discussion !!!!!!
    I do not find it boring. What I find tedious is some member telling other member what can and cannot discuss because they find it uninteresting. Like I said, you can simply ignore it.

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    I do not find it boring. What I find tedious is some member telling other member what can and cannot discuss because they find it uninteresting. Like I said, you can simply ignore it.
    Hi Will
    I see your point - but, knowing meetings like this I can see how it could easily have happened.

    Perhaps the Leica person was proud that there weren't any corrections in the camera firmware, not thinking about corrections in the DNG instructions . . . . I guess some cameras correct before it's written to the file?

    Whatever I just find it hard to believe that they would make a claim which was both unnecessary and really easy to check.

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Jono has an interesting point. In camera corrections vs. Software correction for optical properties of the lenses. I think some may be concerned with software correction since some Raw converters as shown on dpreview don't have the appropriate corrections such as correcting very notable barrel distortion. This means one may be locked into certain software that they don't prefer. On the other hand, in camera correction circumvents this issue to a great extent. Not criticism, just some thoughts regarding the situation .

    Dave (D&A)
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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry View Post
    Has anyone who's tried the camera used the wifi and app to control the camera or offload pictures? I tried to connect camera and my iPad in the Leica store and they didn't see each other. In addition, the folks at the store weren't able to get it to work yet with anyone. Not sure if it is enabled in the firmware they are running, we are doing something wrong or that the functionality doesn't work that great.
    Hi Terry
    Yes indeed. I really irritated Emma by taking photos of her on my ipad whilst the camera was sitting on a shelf. It certainly worked.

    all the best
    Jono

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    I do not find it boring. What I find tedious is some member telling other member what can and cannot discuss because they find it uninteresting. Like I said, you can simply ignore it.
    Would we then also want to start discussing lens corrections of the RX1? Or do you find these boring? Everybody who is not completely new to this is aware of lens corrections either in camera or in post with all of today's state of the art cameras in order to achieve good if not optimum results. And it is actually stupid not to apply corrections and do the almost impossible to design the perfect lens which nobody can afford anymore or does want to carry around because of weight. So why discuss these? What would be interesting to discuss would maybe be the algorithms how these files are corrected and the differences which can be achieved, but not that they are applied at all. At least IMHO.

    So I find these superficial discussions pretty boring. And yes I want to have open discussions. But about really interesting stuff.

    You are free to post whatever you want of course and nobody tells you what to write or not. But having to ignore all repeatedly boring stuff is an exercise not everybody wants to go through - right? Just would prefer to read really interesting stuff.

    So up to you

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Wow. in a pre-launch meeting, you first assumption is the people giving the information are simply wrong! And so your are naive for reporting what you are told?
    Will, I'm sure lot's of people on the photo-forums would have questioned such a claim, and found out about the truth with just one mouse click. DPR make it sound as if they unmasked Leica.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    owWhat is the benefit of DPR libeling a manufacturer? Is that so they can be blackballed by the manufacture? But it does make a pleasant change from bashing DPR as simply stooges for the camera companies. Certainly, it could not have been a mis-communication from Leica...
    Surely, that is a possibility. But then they could have consulted Leica once they found out about it, which is good journalistic practice. Things could have been sorted out so easily, without reputation damage for both parties involved.
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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Careful, kind posters... Decorum please

    Sure technology options include optics, sensors, firmware, and software.
    Why wouldn't a camera makers use the best tools at their disposal?
    Anyway, what matters most is the end result.
    -bob

    shhh, it is a secret that the famous "Leica glow" is nothing more than uncorrected aberrations. Nonetheless they look pretty good.
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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob View Post

    shhh, it is a secret that the famous "Leica glow" is nothing more than uncorrected aberrations. Nonetheless they look pretty good.
    Uncorrected cockups are always the best ones

    Just this guy you know
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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Uncorrected cockups are always the best ones
    Why thank you for the compliment Jono! ]'-)

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Why thank you for the compliment Jono! ]'-)

    G
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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    The difference with Sony correcting optics on kit lens and Leica is the 10x price difference.

    Paul

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by camping View Post
    The difference with Sony correcting optics on kit lens and Leica is the 10x price difference.
    Sorry, but that's just laughable. You expect Leica to not take advantage of the power of software lens correction on their much more expensive lenses? That would be like saying, "The Formula 1 winners will not use aerodynamics to improve their cars' performance because their cars cost more than the Indianaopolis cars." Absolute nonsense.

    Any lens designer worth the name today will use post-capture lens correction software whenever possible and apropos because it produces better results.

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by jonoslack View Post
    Hi Will
    I see your point - but, knowing meetings like this I can see how it could easily have happened.

    Perhaps the Leica person was proud that there weren't any corrections in the camera firmware, not thinking about corrections in the DNG instructions . . . . I guess some cameras correct before it's written to the file?

    Whatever I just find it hard to believe that they would make a claim which was both unnecessary and really easy to check.
    Like a few here, I heard that Leica was not using lens correction in the camera. I just thought that was interesting as most companies would rather mix optical and digital techniques. I am not sure where I heard it, but I don't think DPR was imagining it, whether they heard or interpreted it correctly or not.

    I did check the Leica site. They do talk about the lens system, but not whether and when they use corrections. That fact they do is not a surprise. But it would have been more interesting if they did not.
    Last edited by Shashin; 3rd May 2014 at 16:50.

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Would we then also want to start discussing lens corrections of the RX1? Or do you find these boring? Everybody who is not completely new to this is aware of lens corrections either in camera or in post with all of today's state of the art cameras in order to achieve good if not optimum results. And it is actually stupid not to apply corrections and do the almost impossible to design the perfect lens which nobody can afford anymore or does want to carry around because of weight. So why discuss these? What would be interesting to discuss would maybe be the algorithms how these files are corrected and the differences which can be achieved, but not that they are applied at all. At least IMHO.

    So I find these superficial discussions pretty boring. And yes I want to have open discussions. But about really interesting stuff.

    You are free to post whatever you want of course and nobody tells you what to write or not. But having to ignore all repeatedly boring stuff is an exercise not everybody wants to go through - right? Just would prefer to read really interesting stuff.

    So up to you
    You are right. The idea that Leica would actually make the perfect lens and not use lens corrections is really boring. No one around here ever talks about lens quality, which is odd for a photography forum.

    Personally, I find camera technology very interesting. I am sorry it bores you. Perhaps a photography forum is not the right place for you
    Will

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    The statement that Leica did not use lens corrections originated from DPR, no matter where I might have heard it first. The big ballyhoo that they do is all in response to that, which was most likely someone mishearing or misinterpreting something.

    As I said before, a tempest in a teapot. Much smoke, no fire. All about something which makes not one iota of difference.

    G

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    You are right. The idea that Leica would actually make the perfect lens and not use lens corrections is really boring. No one around here ever talks about lens quality, which is odd for a photography forum.

    Personally, I find camera technology very interesting. I am sorry it bores you. Perhaps a photography forum is not the right place for you
    Now Leica must create "perfect" lenses. This gets deeper and sillier by the minute.

    G

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    The idea that Leica would actually make the perfect lens …
    Hmmm… the perfect lens. Assuming a lens even close to perfect could be made (and no, I don't think the Zeiss Otus or Apo Summicron 50 are anywhere near that) I couldn't afford it if I sold my residences and investments. Nor carry it.

    Leica, as most companies, makes the best optical systems thay can for the price point that they see for their products, and today that generally includes software at some level. Good on them for producing value (at whatever price point).

    I saw DPR's statement when the T was announced, and was surprised. I think someone wasn't paying attention or the info was garbled.

    Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

    Henning
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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    The Leica T is perfect. Leica lenses are perfect. The prices are perfect. Every photo I take with a Leica is perfect.

    Just my opinion.
    Brad Husick
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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    I don't have an issue with software corrections... But I`m surprised about Leica passing off a relatively cheap, slow, run of the mill, Japanese made kit zoom that isn't even stabilized as some kinda premium made out of magic unicorn dust lens worth a couple of grands.

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by retow View Post
    I don't have an issue with software corrections... But I`m surprised about Leica passing off a relatively cheap, slow, run of the mill, Japanese made kit zoom that isn't even stabilized as some kinda premium made out of magic unicorn dust lens worth a couple of grands.
    The target audience for this camera, the Hermes set, are very likely not in the least bit interested about boring stuff like software correction, image stabilization, integrated sensor cleaning and so on. Leica's marketing for the T has made clear that their typical buyer will be more excited to see that each and every body is hand polished for up to an hour.

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    You are right. The idea that Leica would actually make the perfect lens and not use lens corrections is really boring. No one around here ever talks about lens quality, which is odd for a photography forum.

    Personally, I find camera technology very interesting. I am sorry it bores you. Perhaps a photography forum is not the right place for you
    Discussion which are intellectually worth and/or challenging are interesting. I think also a photography forum should be a place for such discussions. And so far I got the opinion you also like such discussions or has this changed? I am surprised ....

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    I try to understand...

    We now do know that the Leica T zoom applies software correction, we didnt find out by seeing any problems in images , but we read it on a review site in the internet.
    And now we complain that one guy from Leica made a missleading statement, because we would have liked to hear it from Leica directly and not read it in the internet.

    We still dont see any disadvantages in images so far (for example something like soft corners of the equivalent Zeiss/Sony zoom for the A7) and we do know the facts now and we can decide if we still want to buy that camera or not, but we really would have liked to hear it from Leica directly.
    Even if the camera system isnt interesting for us anyways because its for Hermes show off people- we still would have liked to het the info from Leica?

    Is this the main problem at the moment?
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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    I try to understand...

    We now do know that the Leica T zoom applies software correction, we didnt find out by seeing any problems in images , but we read it on a review site in the internet.
    And now we complain that one guy from Leica made a missleading statement, because we would have liked to hear it from Leica directly and not read it in the internet.

    We still dont see any disadvantages in images so far (for example something like soft corners of the equivalent Zeiss/Sony zoom for the A7) and we do know the facts now and we can decide if we still want to buy that camera or not, but we really would have liked to hear it from Leica directly.
    Even if the camera system isnt interesting for us anyways because its for Hermes show off people- we still would have liked to het the info from Leica?

    Is this the main problem at the moment?
    Tom,

    For some this seems to be the problem. Actually many others cannot care less about this. And it shows that some people are still very dependent on what review sites publish, although I must state that Dpreview is one of the best and most serious sites IMHO. But still not to take too serious, but this is another discussion.

    For me the T system shows so many innovations (from Leica) that this is enough - and the test images I made with the Leica T and available lenses are just outstanding. I could not care less about if this is achieved with or without SW corrections. The results are outstanding!

    But I think the general problem is that the T system was created by Leica and not Fuji or Sony or who else. This would have changed the perception of many obviously.

    End of the day the T system is a welcomed addition to the Leica portfolio and also a for many a new entry point (or reentry again) into Leica. And this is great!

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Tom,

    For some this seems to be the problem. Actually many others cannot care less about this. And it shows that some people are still very dependent on what review sites publish, although I must state that Dpreview is one of the best and most serious sites IMHO. But still not to take too serious, but this is another discussion.

    For me the T system shows so many innovations (from Leica) that this is enough - and the test images I made with the Leica T and available lenses are just outstanding. I could not care less about if this is achieved with or without SW corrections. The results are outstanding!

    But I think the general problem is that the T system was created by Leica and not Fuji or Sony or who else. This would have changed the perception of many obviously.

    End of the day the T system is a welcomed addition to the Leica portfolio and also a for many a new entry point (or reentry again) into Leica. And this is great!
    did you buy one?
    I like straight forward user interfaces but I have tontry one first before I know if this kind of user interface works for me. I have no doubt about IQ from the experience with the x Vario and X2.

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Paratom View Post
    did you buy one?
    I like straight forward user interfaces but I have tontry one first before I know if this kind of user interface works for me. I have no doubt about IQ from the experience with the x Vario and X2.
    I ordered a black one. The IQ, UI as well as the complete experience with the T is just outstanding

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Negative View Post
    Funny, that "boring ad." It's so boring that it's gone viral!

    I'd say it's genius, rather than boring. But definitely not for everyone...
    And it's in today's Sunday Times in the Going Viral column. The ad is described as "Be dull, be proud...history's dreariest advertisement...so magnificently boring that the introductory voiceover suggests you stop watching after 52 seconds. See if you can last the pace at tinyurl.com/VeryDullFilm "
    Sláinte

    Robert.

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Jeez, so much hate for the T. I guess everyone was expecting some sort of photographical panacea, a tour de force... I'm pretty sure I said in the beginning that this wasn't a camera for photographers. And it's not.

    What it IS though, is a darn nice camera built on a (admittedly "dated") but solid performing sensor. While the design isn't Earth shattering (see: NEX), the execution sure is. It's a beautiful camera that's built like any other Leica. And the touchscreen, while also not new... Certainly is the BEST out there. C'mon, it's a cool camera...

    But it's not for us. And that's okay.
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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Negative View Post
    Jeez, so much hate for the T. I guess everyone was expecting some sort of photographical panacea, a tour de force... I'm pretty sure I said in the beginning that this wasn't a camera for photographers. And it's not.

    What it IS though, is a darn nice camera built on a (admittedly "dated") but solid performing sensor. While the design isn't Earth shattering (see: NEX), the execution sure is. It's a beautiful camera that's built like any other Leica. And the touchscreen, while also not new... Certainly is the BEST out there. C'mon, it's a cool camera...

    But it's not for us. And that's okay.
    Just another day on the T ... As the Stomach Turns.

    Looks like our local Leica rep will be around at the*local camera shop on Thursday or Friday ... I'll try to get over to visit and see the Aluminum Brick. (BTW, he was in with the T on Friday, the sales guys told me they netted two or three paid pre-orders from his visit.)

    Whether it's "not for us" I cannot say. Whether it's not for me, I'll know pretty fast once I see it. But I did put myself on the "notify me when in stock" list for a black one when my preferred Leica dealer gets some stock in shop.

    Just in case, mind you. ;-)

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Been away but looking at this I simply see no value added reason to even consider this in my bag. But I look at these things differently I must admit. For me it's totally a ROI issue and performance issue. I simply don't buy glam cameras which this certainly is. I can see the appeal in some ways but for me its a turn off. I have to wear my reading glasses even more with this and let me say that is a royal PITA to begin with. Lol

    But to each his own for sure. Its a typical Leica product that don't fit in there top end category like the M or S which leaves my interest at the door. Have fun folks and play nice. I got 4 days of solid shooting followed by a couple more. I'm busy YAHOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Maybe not a popular post by me but folks you need to think this through. It's really nothing more than a NEX with some very overpriced glass made in Japan. This is not really a Leica by M and S terms.
    Last edited by Guy Mancuso; 4th May 2014 at 08:27.
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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    I find it surprising that so many people place such a high value on German manufacturing of lenses, discounting Japan's ability to do precise manufacturing. What leads you to believe that given the same set of specifications the German work can command a hefty price premium? Do we have any direct evidence of two identical lenses, one built in Germany and the other built in Japan, where the Japan lens is inferior?

    My other question is: Are all cameras that use a 16MP Sony sensor "nothing more than a NEX"?
    Brad Husick
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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Been away but looking at this I simply see no value added reason to even consider this in my bag. But I look at these things differently I must admit. For me it's totally a ROI issue and performance issue. I simply don't buy glam cameras which this certainly is. I can see the appeal in some ways but for me its a turn off. I have to wear my reading glasses even more with this and let me say that is a royal PITA to begin with. Lol

    But to each his own for sure. Its a typical Leica product that don't fit in there top end category like the M or S which leaves my interest at the door. Have fun folks and play nice. I got 4 days of solid shooting followed by a couple more. I'm busy YAHOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Maybe not a popular post by me but folks you need to think this through. It's really nothing more than a NEX with some very overpriced glass made in Japan. This is not really a Leica by M and S terms.
    Guy

    I hear you. And I am of course not here to convince you. You have totally different reasons for a camera (system) than many others.

    For me this is a combination of high quality and all areas (maybe not topping others but I don't care), the great Leica look of the images, the possibility to use my M lens collection (even with crop 1.5) and finally the new concept and UI which is really something new. Plus if you just touch it it feels so GREAT

    Anyway I understand your needs and with that in mind you are right it is nothing for you IMHO

  45. #195
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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by bradhusick View Post
    I find it surprising that so many people place such a high value on German manufacturing of lenses, discounting Japan's ability to do precise manufacturing. What leads you to believe that given the same set of specifications the German work can command a hefty price premium? Do we have any direct evidence of two identical lenses, one built in Germany and the other built in Japan, where the Japan lens is inferior?

    My other question is: Are all cameras that use a 16MP Sony sensor "nothing more than a NEX"?
    Brad surprised you would say that of all people. But to answer that you are basically buying in effect a Hassy Lunar at 10k compared to a Sony a99 and in that case it's almost identical . Here yes more differences for sure over a Sony per say. Frankly I shoot a lot of Japanese glass so I don't put a high value on G vs J lens design and construction but again if I read it correctly the lenses are not made in a Leica factory. Now for one that has been to Solms and in there factory. They make some if the best glass around and charge a premium for it. Here you get the premium without it actually being made in a German optic factory. We all know anything out of canada that was made for Leica does not even come close to some of the same lenses made in Germany. That's the market and everyone seems to want German only. Did this somehow change overnight.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    You yourself make it a point if I'm not mistaken to say a lens you have for sale is a German version. I'm i wrong here or is there a new double standard on this cam. I would not even think about buying these lenses but buy M lenses as it's much more usable. I won't buy APS lenses myself
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Guy,

    I have to disagree with your comparison to Hassy Lunar. That's a silly cosmetics job. The Leica T is an engineered product from the ground up. The T is a modest premium over other APS-C cameras.

    Yes, I agree that somehow the market puts a premium on German manufacturing, but I haven't seen anything scientific that backs up the attitude. I'd love to see some factual evidence. (When I list an item for sale I disclose as many facts about it as I can.)

    One reason to buy T lenses is that they are autofocus. No M lens will ever be.

    -Brad (proud owner of several marvelous M lenses, and no, I am not on the list for a T)
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  48. #198
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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    AF or not I'm in the same boat with my Sonys buying the APS glass is limited to that format. I'm up against the same wall. BTW no offense as I was not trying to pin you to the wall but we all know people go after the German made optics over the Canadian ones for instance. I have no evidence myself if German glass is better or not over Japanese glass. But all you here about from Leica folks is the look of the German glass. Every Leica dealer uses that German optics marketing stuff all day long. So that part is real but is it really. I don't buy into that myself. My Zeiss glass is made in Japan and I love them.
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    AF or not I'm in the same boat with my Sonys buying the APS glass is limited to that format. I'm up against the same wall. BTW no offense as I was not trying to pin you to the wall but we all know people go after the German made optics over the Canadian ones for instance. I have no evidence myself if German glass is better or not over Japanese glass. But all you here about from Leica folks is the look of the German glass. Every Leica dealer uses that German optics marketing stuff all day long. So that part is real but is it really. I don't buy into that myself. My Zeiss glass is made in Japan and I love them.
    I think the "made in Germany" is highly overrated today. For example I myself cannot tell any difference between between German lenses and those manufactured in Japan, if they are manufactured up to the quality rules from Germany. Good examples are Zeiss lenses manufactured in Japan.

    Or take the Fuji X lenses, they have no German counterpart, but they are at least on the same IQ level as coming from Germany. And keep in mind that also all Hasselblad H lenses are manufactured by Fuji in Japan. Just some examples.

    I have the feeling that maybe Fuji also produces the new Leica T lenses. And this would be actually very good. Plus while manufactured in Japan the lenses are maybe half the price than manufactured in Germany. So this can only be to the benefit of the end user, at least as long as quality control is consistent. I have no doubt it is because the samples of the 23 and the 18-55 I tested on the Leica T (both JPEG and DNG developed in LR5.4) were EXCELLENT!

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    Re: Leica's new APS-C Interchangeable lens camera

    Can you explain what a camera for photographers is or means? What is the T missing? Does a camera need a zillion controls and buttons and an 800 page manual? Isn't being a photographer about what you see and how you capture the light?

    Can a real real photographer create a winning image with a simple pinhole camera?

    If there were one answer to what makes a good camera all cameras would be the same. However, we know that people are different and one tool doesn't fit all.

    I like the T because it simplifies the camera back to the basic elements similar to the M's with the benefit of auto focus. But that I guess precludes me from being a real photographer.


    Quote Originally Posted by Double Negative View Post
    Jeez, so much hate for the T. I guess everyone was expecting some sort of photographical panacea, a tour de force... I'm pretty sure I said in the beginning that this wasn't a camera for photographers. And it's not.

    What it IS though, is a darn nice camera built on a (admittedly "dated") but solid performing sensor. While the design isn't Earth shattering (see: NEX), the execution sure is. It's a beautiful camera that's built like any other Leica. And the touchscreen, while also not new... Certainly is the BEST out there. C'mon, it's a cool camera...

    But it's not for us. And that's okay.
    terry
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