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Thread: Speculation : Sony MF system

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    Speculation : Sony MF system

    Since sony's now making MF sensors, what's really stopping them from entering the MF camera market as well.

    I could see sony wanting reviving the contax system to get into MF, Sony already has been using Ziess lens.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    What is stopping them? The costs and the fact they are not interested, or most likely not invested--why bother going into such a small market? Why would Sony what to buy the rights to the Contax system from Kyocera? I doubt Kyocera has even kept the information to build their cameras and the engineer that knew about the system are gone. Camera systems are not just camera bodies, but lenses. MFD lenses are an expensive proposition. This get more expensive when a company has no experience in a particular field.

    Sony is going to make more profit making sensors for the MFD industry than being a player.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Nothing was stopping them before they made such a sensor.

    They could have purchased sensors from someone else, it's a small fraction of the total cost of the system and would not have put them at any disadvantage against of the current players (Phase, Leaf, Hassy, Leica, Pentax, Sinar, Megavision).

    Starting to make the sensors gives them a very small advantage to enter a very small market which would have to be balanced against the extensive list of disadvantages that Will points out above.

    Naturally I'm not saying, and could not say, that this won't happen. No one can predict the future, and companies like Sony are very secretive. I'm just saying that if Sony had an interest in the MFD niche it does not have that much more incentive today than yesterday.

    The last "new" player to enter medium format digital was Pentax and it took them seven years between when they announced they were going to release a digital 645 until they shipped one to a customer – and they had some pretty decent prior experience in medium format with a range of lenses already designed.
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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Can't see it happening myself, for all the reasons mentioned already.

    What I can see happening though is what torger suggested in another thread - Sony releasing a mirrorless fixed lens camera utilising their chip. Now that I reckon there is a huge potential for.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    I think large sensors have a bright future.
    The megapixel wars are more or less over, now the marketing thrust will be more towards sensor size. "My sensor is bigger than yours" as a proxy to image quality allows to differentiate yourself easily from the Phone-cameras. Those have pretty much killed the compact camera market, and I suspect will continue to extend.
    So Sony developed the RX-100 with a bigger sensor to differentiate itself from the mass of camera-phones and other pocket cameras.
    Yet one scale up, the RX-1, an uber-pocket, with Full-Frame chip, and a price tags which you can now justify: yes, it's expensive, but it's Full-Frame. And it has killer image quality.
    So I clearly see a spot for an RX-1 on steroids. For starters.
    But clearly Sony is hungry, and is targeting the upper-scale camera market. They probably see that unless you are Samsung, there is no money in the low-end camera business.

    An MF-DSLR from Sony ? Perhaps not (yet?). They seem more focused on mirrorless right now. But who knows... They have the technology, they have the appetite. But they are also innovators, so perhaps MF-DSLR is too "old school" for them. What about a mirrorless MF system with intechangeable (Zeiss) lenses. So something like an A7R-XXL, with adapters for all autofocus MF lenses. Sounds nice, doesn't it ? ;-)

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    I am not sure about the statement that the megapixel wars are over. I am a studio product shooter and always want more resolution and better LiveView.
    No sooner than I was able to print up to 8ft from my aptus2-12, then I started receiving requests for 14ft prints...
    But perhaps I am wrong about this.
    I like the idea of the IQ250 and looking forward to more MP and more LV functions like Canon's.
    Sony will probably stay out of the MF market, IMO. Again, I could be wrong. I still to this day have no idea why they entered the 35mm DSLR market...soooo....I don't have a great track record on these speculative things
    Last edited by Egor; 2nd February 2014 at 09:38.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Perhaps mirrorless MF "back", i.e., a larger version of the A7r capable of using any existing MF lens. Consider the hoopla over the A7r from Leica and Canon users.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    The megapixels wars are surely not over.

    But the war is limited to far fewer fronts .

    Studio Product, Landscape, Architecture, Art Repro. I have customers in these genres that would purchase tomorrow if I told them today there was a 300mp single-shot back that otherwise maintained the same quality as their existing system (re: color, tethering speed/stability, durability etc).
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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    I think the interesting part of this "war" is that 35mm full frame has now hit 36mp. The question is then how much more MPs can you cram into the space of a full frame sensor at the expense of affordable lenses? From what I have seen, glass is going to have to get quite a bit better to go beyond the 36MP on a postage stamp. This will deter a big part of their market. In other words, I think they have backed themselves a little into a corner with the 36MP sensors. I love my IQ180 but I can't see me enjoying the look of an image that is smaller than the 5.2 micron size. This is where the MF world has an inherent advantage. The IQ250 is not full frame but the sensor but the IQ3XX will be. MF can keep getting bigger and bigger without shrinking the pixels even up to the image circles of tech lenses. By the way, If someone can talk to the right person to get me a 617 digital sensor, let me know. I hate stitching shots at the beach.
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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    If we're going to see something medium format from Sony at all, I think it would be a Sony RXm, a 44x33mm version of the current RX1, ie a fixed lens compact. One off, low development cost, low risk, and already RX1 (full-frame compact) seemed crazy so an RXm would not surprise me.

    An entirely new MF system would surprise me a lot though. Scaling up existing sensor technology to MF size and sell to many manufacturers is one thing, making a whole MF system line with lenses and all is totally different. If so it would be for gaining prestige and respect in the photographic community rather than making money, the actual market is very small.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Mamiya 7 in Mirrorless digital ala Sony would be cool. Doubt it would happen but they have the sensor tech
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Oooo, the Mamiya 7 'digital' would be amazing.

    Suspect its much cheaper and more profitable for them to just produce the chips and let everyone else struggle in the camera market.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    If Sony builds a RXM that can be attached with an ALPA adapter to the FPS, watch out.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    What is stopping them? The costs and the fact they are not interested, or most likely not invested--why bother going into such a small market? Why would Sony what to buy the rights to the Contax system from Kyocera?
    Except this is Sony we're talking about, they regularly spend a ridiculous amount of R&D on a wide variety of products, often proprietary technology, that ultimately doesn't catch on in the mass market. Relative to their current strategy, making a camera around vital components that they already manufacture is hardly an investment, and seeing their product release history, they seem to have nothing to lose by doing so. It took a small group of people a couple of years to take the D800E sensor and stuff it into a compact camera, so it isn't unrealistic to see the kind of camera people here wish for made by 2016.

    Personally I wouldn't want Sony to use an existing template for the manufacture of a medium format camera, it should be made as a purely digital camera from the ground-up, and not cling to old concepts like optical viewfinders and mirrors, all of which had to deal with the problem of getting around film.

    A scaled-up A7r, it's not that hard of a concept to grasp, even for corporate bigwigs.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    To be honest, I don't see Sony developing such a sensor just as a sensor. I suspect they have an idea what to do with it, in addition to selling it to other manufacturers...

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Quote Originally Posted by miska View Post
    To be honest, I don't see Sony developing such a sensor just as a sensor. I suspect they have an idea what to do with it, in addition to selling it to other manufacturers...
    At least it wouldn't be the first time that they were making such a move.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Sure, no reason for Sony not to make a MF point and shoot. Creating a new camera is easy.

    Just ask Phase.
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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Let me know when I can stop laughing at that one Stephen
    Photography is all about experimentation and without it you will never learn art.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolor-Pikker View Post
    Except this is Sony we're talking about, they regularly spend a ridiculous amount of R&D on a wide variety of products, often proprietary technology, that ultimately doesn't catch on in the mass market. Relative to their current strategy, making a camera around vital components that they already manufacture is hardly an investment, and seeing their product release history, they seem to have nothing to lose by doing so. It took a small group of people a couple of years to take the D800E sensor and stuff it into a compact camera, so it isn't unrealistic to see the kind of camera people here wish for made by 2016.

    Personally I wouldn't want Sony to use an existing template for the manufacture of a medium format camera, it should be made as a purely digital camera from the ground-up, and not cling to old concepts like optical viewfinders and mirrors, all of which had to deal with the problem of getting around film.

    A scaled-up A7r, it's not that hard of a concept to grasp, even for corporate bigwigs.
    First, Sony is losing tons of money. Its current line of cameras seems to imply they need to capture as much of the enthusiast markets as they can to stay profitable. I don't see them splashing out the cash as they did 10 or 20 years ago on R&D. And R&D is scaled to products--cameras don't have great margins and the market is shrinking. They probably sell more a7s than the entire MFD market sells cameras. A niche market is not going to support them. Even corporate "bigwigs" understand data. A scaled up a7 will be too expensive for their market.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    Sure, no reason for Sony not to make a MF point and shoot. Creating a new camera is easy.

    Just ask Phase.
    If someone is coming up with a new camera concept, for instance a mirrorless one, in the larger than 35mm playing field I believe it's going to be Sony.
    All of the current players are "stuck" with SLR designs that require a certain flange distance (don't get me wrong, I'm totally fine with optical viewfinders, I love 'em!). Sure Phase One or Hasselblad could let go of the mirror box to reduce vibrations etc. but what would be the point? A completely new design approach would require new lens designs aswell and I doubt Phase One or Hasselblad have the financial strentgh to do that. So why not Sony?
    They have the funds and they already have experience with the development of photographic devices and they seem eager to try out new ways (SLT, mirrorless etc.).
    Whether their MF camera, if there'll ever be one, will satisfy my needs remains to be seen. I don't like mirrorless cameras so far but nevertheless I'd love to see a MF one.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    I doubt Sony will want to spend it's first profit in the past 5 years on creating a new system / mount / lenses (which they totally lack). My take is that they will continue to sell sensors reap those benefits and go with the strategic alliance / partnerships route.

    Sony will want to go anywhere where costs and risks can be shared. I still state that the deal they have with Hasselblad has more nuances than the cursory glance. That deal just looks like the possible making of an acquisition story should the market move toward larger sensors. In particular of the fact that Hasselblad is now using lots of parts from the Sony bin.... just my 2 cents.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Quote Originally Posted by Guy Mancuso View Post
    Mamiya 7 in Mirrorless digital ala Sony would be cool. Doubt it would happen but they have the sensor tech
    Bingo! And, it will have a Hasselblad badge using existing Hassy lenses. Shortly, too, I have heard.

    Greg

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    1. It makes no sense for Sony to make a medium format camera or system. Still they might do it. They are totally unpredictable.

    2. The megapixel war is not over. Sony themselves recently launched 24 and 36 MP mirrorless cameras, up around 100% from most of the competition. Most photographers think they make better photos with more megapixels at their disposal. Camera manufacturers are more than happy to help them.

    3. There is no limit as to how many pixels can be crammed into a postage stamp. My Nokia has 41 MP, and although it's no Hasselblad or Nikon, it's surprising what can be done with it.

    4. Although there are many good reasons why certain things shouldn't be done, in the end, one can be rather certain that somebody will do it. It's human nature.

    5. Whatever Sony does, I'm quite sure that it won't be based on a Kyocera design, for many good reasons.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Forget mirroless, we need lensmore. This is the future:

    3D World TL 120-1 (II. Version)
    Will

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Forget mirroless, we need lensmore. This is the future:

    3D World TL 120-1 (II. Version)
    If one lens is good, three lenses must be three times as good

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    well the name contax should reside back with zeiss these days.
    and since sony and zeiss are pretty good partners for a long time why not.
    i just wonder why sony would want to make a contax branded MF camera.
    although alot of people, including myself, would love to see a C645 mark II for sure, with revised C645 lenses

    wasnt it sony(or was it canon?) who said they already invested a significant amount of money in a european MF company?

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Quote Originally Posted by drevil View Post
    well the name contax should reside back with zeiss these days.
    and since sony and zeiss are pretty good partners for a long time why not.
    i just wonder why sony would want to make a contax branded MF camera.
    although alot of people, including myself, would love to see a C645 mark II for sure, with revised C645 lenses

    wasnt it sony(or was it canon?) who said they already invested a significant amount of money in a european MF company?
    The lens designs and Contax name belong to Zeiss, the rest to Kyocera. Unless, that is, Kyocera sold those bits to Fuji. The design of the X-T1 may indicate that some kind of transfer has been going on between the two. They didn't pay Porsche Design millions only to have any old camera maker copy the design.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Interesting speculation.

    While Sony is something of an enigma, if we step back and look at what they are doing it isn't terribly hard to figure out what they are up to.

    Sony is a consumer electronics company, and that mindset extends well into their imaging division. If you doubt that, simply look at all the consumer oriented settings even on their highest end cameras.

    Today's consumer landscape has changed. The movement is away from larger, less convenient ways of capturing images, to more connectivity and convince. Obviously, the best expression of that is the smart phone.

    Yet, the smart phone is limited, and consumers know that. Even Sony wasn't prepared for the success of its own QX WiFi "lens camera" which quickly outsold production estimates and capability.

    When surveying the market, Sony is side-stepping head-to-head competition with entrenched Nikon and Canon. On the Alpha A mount front, they have totally abandoned the Optical Viewfinder to offer the alternative EVF/SLTs. However, that doesn't tick off the right boxes for enough consumers … but the now merged NEX/Alpha E mount is starting to do exactly that. Smaller, more convenient, better image quality (better/larger sensor and interchangeable lenses), and more connectivity. That advanced amateurs, and even many pros see the price/value in that, is all the better.

    A larger camera with a MFD sized sensor, requiring much larger lenses, and the added difficulty of transferring that level of IQ to Cloud storage doesn't seem to fit in with where the volume money is in the marketplace.

    That said, a Mamiya 7-II sized camera with EVF and a 50 meg sensor supported by a nice set of Zeiss (Mamiya 7 sized) optics would most certainly capture some attention amongst this group here … whether that'd pay out in the end is doubtful.


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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Quote Originally Posted by stephengilbert View Post
    Sure, no reason for Sony not to make a MF point and shoot. Creating a new camera is easy.
    For Canon, Nikon, Sony etc it is. Look at the number of new compact cameras they put out each year. The same technology is reused in larger systems. The difference between a 24 megapixel 36x24mm RX1 and 50 megapixel 44x33 RXm would probably be quite minimal. Possibly they would need more processing power in the body due to the higher pixel count, then it could be a little more difficult but these companies have resources.

    It's not like they need to remake live view and sensor interaction technology from the start like MF companies may have to do. Sony has had real live view and this type of CMOS sensors for several years already.

    It's all about if they find a reason to do it. It would not sell in large numbers. However RX1 is also not a large volume camera, it's "wrong" in terms of what Sony should be doing, but they surprised us with that (the 44x33 sensor itself is also "wrong", it will sell in tiny numbers compared to the more normal sizes). Due to that I would not be too surprised if they make a similar camera with the new 44x33 sensor, even if it does not really make sense for a mass-market type of company like Sony.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    IF Sony enters the MF market, I suspect it will be with a player Like Hassy and a co-branded unit, akin to the Leica S using existing H mount lenses, etc., and adding some co-developed lenses with optics heavily designed by Sony/Zeiss and with mechanics (shutter, etc.) and firmware by Hassy.

    A nicely-priced 50MP +/- Hassy-Sony S style body with True Focus, etc in H mount with a growing list of co-developed lenses would sell well me thinks.

    It would get their name into more higher-end pro studios with a well-established player w/o the need to develop a entire new camera body, lens mount, etc. There's no need for them to invest heavily to become a new player in a small and hotly contested market facing pressure from SLRs (oddly enough thanks to their own sensors) when they can partner instead.

    That said, who knows. They may be perfectly happy just selling sensors and watching the cage match from the sidelines.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    If Sony wanted to make a Medium Format Digital system I am sure they can do it and do it quickly. MUCH quicker than Pentax did. Look at how quickly the designed and made a Full Frame Mirorless system. Yes, Sony had extensive experience with the NEX system but the A7/A7R are a step ahead. I know, there are only 3 Sony FE lenses available but they are very good.

    Could you imagine a Medium Format Digital Mirrorless system with an awesome EVF? It would be superb. Much smaller and lighter form factor, specially the lenses.

    With the IQ250 external EVFs are possible and in theory you could build a mirror less MF camera with the IQ250, the Alpa FPS an an external EVF. You could do the same with an Arca (please make an FPS!) or Cambo but obviously not have an electronic shutter (I know schneider makes lenses with the e-shutter but they require a large controller)

    IMHO the technology is available today to make a truly innovative medium format system from the ground up as a mirroless slr-style system with EVF. I hope someone does it.

    That said the IQ250 is a great addition to a superb line of digital backs. Can't complain about that!

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    if sony had just clipped off the front of the A7R so the flange to sensor matched a phase back they would have rocked some boats
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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Sony might just have signed a "we won't do it!" agreement before the Medium-Format manufacturers agreed to buy this new sensor.
    If I was Phase, Hasselblad, Pentax I'd not trust Sony an inch and insist on them not undercutting the whole market with their own camera or back.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Quote Originally Posted by fotografz View Post
    Sony is a consumer electronics company, and that mindset extends well into their imaging division. If you doubt that, simply look at all the consumer oriented settings even on their highest end cameras.
    While I agree that Sony is not going to enter the MFD market, that statement is far too simple. The Alpha and Nex line of cameras has a strong Minolta heritage. Minolta did have a strong bent toward consumer cameras with occasional burst of brilliance and innovation. They did have some professional-level products, but they never pursued the professional market the way Canon and Nikon did. I see more of Minolta in what Sony is doing than I see Sony's culture. But then I might be biased as a former Konica Minolta Photo Imaging employee that worked with a lot of the folks that moved to Sony. I also have no idea what Sony's culture is, or at least no more than anyone outside the company.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Quote Originally Posted by jlm View Post
    if sony had just clipped off the front of the A7R so the flange to sensor matched a phase back they would have rocked some boats
    An advanced DYI project perhaps? Taking apart an A7R and putting it together as a 36x24 digital back... would be cool

    On a view camera you can use it as-is, as flange distance is not important there, focus on live view and you're fine, and the sensor can't do ultra-short flange distance lenses anyway. Arca-Swiss MF-two has a bellows coming this month. This is anyhow the type of camera this sort of hack would be used anyway, so I guess it's not so necessary to make a back out of it. Still would be a cool project.
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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Douglas View Post
    Sony might just have signed a "we won't do it!" agreement before the Medium-Format manufacturers agreed to buy this new sensor.
    If I was Phase, Hasselblad, Pentax I'd not trust Sony an inch and insist on them not undercutting the whole market with their own camera or back.
    While it is possible for a company to have another company develop technology for you under an exclusive agreement (Kodak and Leica did this with the S2/S sensor), I believe it is illegal to simply say you cannot enter a market. None of these companies can afford exclusivity.

    I would also like to point out that Pentax actually undercut Phase and Hasselblad with their Kodak sensor camera. The same sensor those other companies used. They may do it again.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    The detachable digital back market (Phase One, Hasselblad) is quite different from the integrated body market (Pentax, Leica), and I think they can operate quite isolated from eachother.

    I have zero interest in Pentax or Leica as I need a digital back to attach to my tech camera.

    If Sony would do an "RXm" (fixed lens "compact" with 44x33 sensor), it would be another MF category still, not threatening the other systems regardless of how cheap the product would become. Such a product would also fit their "consumer" profile better, their camera interfaces is like a mobile phone, graphical and toyish, much less of the feeling of a professional tool like you would need out of a full-featured MF pro system to compete with Phase One and Hasselblad.
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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    While I agree that Sony is not going to enter the MFD market, that statement is far too simple. The Alpha and Nex line of cameras has a strong Minolta heritage. Minolta did have a strong bent toward consumer cameras with occasional burst of brilliance and innovation. They did have some professional-level products, but they never pursued the professional market the way Canon and Nikon did. I see more of Minolta in what Sony is doing than I see Sony's culture. But then I might be biased as a former Konica Minolta Photo Imaging employee that worked with a lot of the folks that moved to Sony. I also have no idea what Sony's culture is, or at least no more than anyone outside the company.
    It isn't difficult to see what the Sony focus is … just look at their product line-up. Their hallmark (was) innovation in applying new technology to mass consumer e-products.

    While they've abdicated that leadership to new companies like Apple, the way forward was paved by Sony innovation at first.

    Maybe that's why Minolta was a good "cultural" fit for Sony? Strong consumer orientation with occasional bursts of innovation.

    - Marc

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Now that's a great idea: stuff the 44x33 sensor in a body with a different set of mounts. Boy, now that would be fun. Scare the heck out of P1 etc. A cheap backup back, put on the back of your tech camera, live view, etc. Cool.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    There is a sort of parallel analogy regarding a sensor maker being in the same business that their sensor customers are in.

    The Kodak Proback was quite an innovative at the time, and the progression of development, features, applications and pricing rocked the MFD DB world. Untethered shooting! Articulated LCD! ISO 400! Menu cropping choices! One has to wonder what it would be like had they continued in that manner?

    This was a relatively short lived existence once other DB makers and camera companies began uniting. I'm sure selling sensors to other makers was more lucrative than marketing their own back … especially if all the competition moved their business to Dalsa or some other sensor foundry … and the cameras now owned by the DB companies shut Kodak out from camera protocols.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    You know what would really be cool is if Fuji bought some of these sensors and entered the MF digital back world. I really hope Fuji has MF in their future although I doubt it is in their short term plans.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Of all the crazy corporate cultures, Fuji has one that might actually do that.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    i said this a while back and will repeat it again, remember amg after market for benz and then it became part of the MB line. think of hasselblad is amg for sony and the eventual buy out by sony.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Personally, Sony's strategy of focusing on high-end gear is a worrying sign for the industry. It is trying to simply survive on an affluent customer base. It is fine for smaller companies like Leica and Phase, but not for larger operations that need a broad customer base. Great for photographers in the short term, maybe not so good for the companies in the long.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Of all the crazy corporate cultures, Fuji has one that might actually do that.
    Agreed. Somebody from Adox told me, Fuji is still producing film only because their CEO insists on it. The market for film is so insignificant by now that the costs of their large scale production are not being covered by the revenue. I hope they can preserve their film production as long as possible.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Fuji's current APS-C digital lineup has some great looking image files not to mention their "film simulation" modes are quite nice. If they could move into MF, I would not complain.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Fuji is probably the most likely candidate for a new digital MF camera.

    - They still make MF cameras and have enormous experience within that field.
    - They make the MF lenses for Hasselblad.
    - They have made a digital back earlier, a Super CCD for the GX680, but only marketed in Japan.
    - They make their own sensors.
    - They are known to do unexpected things.
    - If the X-T1 body is designed with some transfer of concept/knowledge from Kyocera (I doubt that they would make a camera that looks like a modern copy of the RTS III without at least consulting them), they might also have access to the technology and design behind the Contax 645.
    - If they have access to the Contax lens mount, they also have access to a healthy customer base. Without customers, no camera.

    With the success of the X-series, I doubt that 35mm is in the cards for them. It's not a big enough step. MF on the other hand, might be it. It's obviously speculation combined with a large portion of wishful thinking, but again: If anybody, they may be the most likely candidate. Much more so than Sony.

    Edit: The challenge for anybody entering the MF industry would be lenses and lens mount. If someone like Sony design their own, it's a huge investment and in the current market, selling enough to get a sufficient return would be a tough challenge. If they are going to use an existing mount, they need a partner, a partner that is not afraid of diluting their own market shares. Leica pulled it off, but I suspect they were able to pick up many customers who were waiting for the R10. Sony have no such customer base to pull out of their hat.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    there are a lot more billionaires and milliners out there, all over the world and in china in particular with a fine appetite for cool expensive stuff



    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    Personally, Sony's strategy of focusing on high-end gear is a worrying sign for the industry. It is trying to simply survive on an affluent customer base. It is fine for smaller companies like Leica and Phase, but not for larger operations that need a broad customer base. Great for photographers in the short term, maybe not so good for the companies in the long.

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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Quote Originally Posted by msadat View Post
    there are a lot more billionaires and milliners out there, all over the world and in china in particular with a fine appetite for cool expensive stuff
    Apparently wearing different hats...

    Photography is a niche hobby. Only about 5% of US households earn more than $200,000. Not a very large customer base, especially if we leave it to billionaires and people who sell hats.

    Auto-correct is a beech...


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    Re: Speculation : Sony MF system

    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Douglas View Post
    Sony might just have signed a "we won't do it!" agreement before the Medium-Format manufacturers agreed to buy this new sensor.
    If I was Phase, Hasselblad, Pentax I'd not trust Sony an inch and insist on them not undercutting the whole market with their own camera or back.
    As a business person, I like this thinking. Furthermore, we do not know Sony isn't doing R&D for one or more of the camera companies they supply sensors to. It is much more inexpensive to exploit Sony's engineering lab that develop your own in house staff and lab.

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