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Thread: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

  1. #201
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Thank you .
    In the meantime I have found similar information , not as extensive as above .
    This info should be found on the HASSELBLAD site .
    But it answered my question for the battery and charger . but not for the SD-CARD (16 , 32 , 64 GB)
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    Hi Godfrey

    Can you please tell me : Whats in the box , when unpacking

    I mean this in regard to battery and loading device , as well as storage card . I have found nothing on the HASSELBLAD site and nothing in this thread .
    I am waiting for my chrome version , and would like to know , what additional part I should order .
    I prefer to always have a second battery with me as well as a spare storage card . Also I would like charge the battery outside the camera .
    What cards are you using ? ? ? Thank you . Jürgen .
    The Hasselblad 907x Special Edition user manual is available for download from the Hasselblad website and includes all the specifics of what's included in the box, as well as the BHPhoto listing that tcdeveau listed. Here's the page in the manual:

    Click image for larger version. 

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    I recommend downloading the 907x Special Edition user manual AND the CFVII 50c user manual. Together, they address the capabilities of both the complete 907x camera and of the CFVII 50c back for use with other bodies in great detail.

    To charge batteries outside of the camera, you need to buy the optional "Hasselblad Battery Charging Hub for X System". This enables charging one or two batteries simultaneously external to the camera and isn't too horridly expensive ($155). It comes with a second USB-C to USB A type cable and power supply, interchangeable with the ones that come with the camera. The battery for the 907x is indeed the same battery for the CFVII and also for the X1D and X1DII cameras.

    (Personally, I always like to have three batteries, number them, and use them in rotation. That way I can have one battery in use, one ready to be dropped in and fully charged, and one on charge at any given time. The dual charger makes this a piece of cake... I bought one additional battery with the camera, and added one more when I ordered the dual charger. )

    My camera came with a Lexar Pro 128G, 1667x card in it; this isn't listed as an "in the box" component but it was there. I have two more of these that I originally purchased for my Leica SL, as well as four Sandisk Extreme Pro 64G cards of similar performance. They all work beautifully, although I have to say a single 128G is more than I've ever filled in a single shooting session. The 907x/CVFII 50c has two slots and lets you organize which files go to which slots in the usual ways.

    The other things I've bought for the 907x include:
    • "Hasselblad Release Cord X for X1D-50c Camera" ($80) - Got that with the camera too.
    • Peak Design "Leash" neck strap and wrist strap, three anchors (I had this stuff in stock).
    • Peak Design Arca-Swiss-compatible camera plate (that I leave on the 907x most of the time. I'm waiting for someone to come up with a camera plate that is custom for the 907x's thin body with its grip locating dowel receptacle..)
    • Fotodiox Pro lens mount adapters for Leica R and M lenses
    • XCD 21mm f/4 lens (Again, purchased with the camera)
    • XCD 45mm f/4 P lens
    • B+W 62mm "wide angle" lens hood (for the 45mm lens)
    • 62mm to Series VII step-down ring (for using the Leica ELPRO VIIa/b close up lenses on the 45P lens)
    • Apple USB-C/Thunderbolt/USB 3.1 cable (for use with 2018 - iPad Pro 11" 1T device or 2018 Mac mini)
    • Hasselblad XV Adapter and Hasselblad XH Bracket (for use of my V system lenses without the 500CM body)


    Quite the laundry list, eh?
    G
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Thank you very much Godfrey . Your post is very helpful .
    So all I need now is the 907X in chrome . My dealer could not give me a date of delivery yet .
    But I can sort out what else to order .
    Regards . Jürgen .
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    I now have the 907x / CFV II 50 c user manual . It comes from cdn.hasselblad.com
    That guide is far better written than the old CFV50 users guide .
    It is not mentioned on the german HASSELBLAD site .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    I now have the 907x / CFV II 50 c user manual . It comes from cdn.hasselblad.com
    That guide is far better written than the old CFV50 users guide .
    It is not mentioned on the german HASSELBLAD site .
    I downloaded the manuals, and Phocus, through the Hasselblad USA website, as you would expect since I live in California...

    G

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    My walks continue: I've been shooting a good bit and processing slowly, playing with various ideas using the Hasselblad 907x and CFVII 50c back, along with the 500CM and the same back. It's the only way I learn things.

    I did my walk with the CVFII on the 500CM with Planar 80 a week or two back, and have been walking with the 907x and 45P lens this past week. Here are two walk pix I like.


    Poppies - Santa Clara 2020
    Hasselblad 500CM/CVFII 50c + Planar 80mm f/2.8 T*



    Stone Unicorn - Santa Clara 2020
    Hasselblad 907x + XCD 45mm f/4 P

    In the course of swapping lenses, backs, experimentation, I found on yesterday's walk pix a nice big bit of schmutz had gotten onto the sensor. It barely shows up at lens openings under f/5.6, is crystal clear at f/16. I took the back off, took out my Giottos Rocket blower, and with one puff the sensor is completely clean again. Whew! Also, I selected all the frames I made yesterday in LR and tapped the spot with the spotting tool: it's removed. Some of them need a little editing work, but overall it shows me that for my use I don't really need to do much more than normal care and diligence in swapping lenses and back with this system.

    Be well, stay sane, keep on going!

    G
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    907X - XCD 45P - 3 Times
    Godfrey keep the posts coming...
    I agree the 45P is a great walk around lens. I will soon start experimenting more with my Leica, X-pan and Canon FD Glass...





    Labyrinth Of C-19
    by tOny endieveri, on Flickr
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Quote Originally Posted by phOtOny teXas View Post
    907X - XCD 45P - 3 Times
    Godfrey keep the posts coming...
    I agree the 45P is a great walk around lens. I will soon start experimenting more with my Leica, X-pan and Canon FD Glass...
    {snip}
    Like that photo, Tony.

    I was experimenting with M mount lenses a bit more again yesterday; some of my observations: The Color Skopar 28mm and Summilux 35 v2 vignette fairly strongly even in the corners of the cropped square field of view, the Summicron 50 (current formulation) covers square nicely, and Summarit 75mm seem to cover the full format pretty well. Ran out of time to test the M-Rokkor 90 and Color Skopar 50mm; I had already tried the Pentax-L 43mm (does pretty well on the cropped square) and the Hektor 135mm (does astonishingly well on the cropped square, with a little bit of corner darkening).

    Have to play with more of my R lenses next...

    A lot of this is an academic exercise. I know that my Hasselblad V system lenses will more than cover the format and generally do a superior job ... with 50, 80, 120, and 150 mm options there, along with 21 and 45 mm in the XCD line, there's little need to use the Leica lenses. The ones I am most interested in, really, are the ones that provide macro and close up capabilities ... the Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm, Macro-Elmar-R 100mm, the Summicron-R 50mm (although not technically a macro lens, I've found that its performance in the 1:1 and great magnification range is just amazing!) ... because I'll mostly use the XCD and V system lenses for general shooting. The performance of the macro lenses influences which 'next' XCD lens I'll go for ... right now, I'm thinking the XCD 80mm f/1.9 (because I have the Makro-Planar 120mm), but the XCD 120mm f/4 Macro draws me too.

    There's no rush, since I don't want to spend the money for a while. Actually, the thing I want for this camera more right now is a combination L-bracket/left-sided grip that's light, compact, and fits tight to the body: I have a feeling that I'll make one.

    On to more photographs...

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Using the 907x' back on the 500CM again:


    Chair On Sidewalk - Santa Clara 2020


    Red Leaf Against Wood Fence - Santa Clara 2020


    Angel Contemplating Hand - Santa Clara 2020

    Hasselblad 500CM/CFVII 50c + Planar 80mm f/2.8 T*
    ISO 100 @ f/5.6

    enjoy!
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Around the condo:


    Pineapple


    Bialetti


    Tomatoes, Pineapple, Reflection


    Bicycle with Tire Pump


    Chair And Table


    Bear on the Table by the Window

    All:
    Hasselblad 500CM/CVFII 50c + Makro-Planar 120mm f/4
    Taken with the standard 500CM viewfinder and lens shutter.

    Fun fun fun ... enjoy!

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    The cactus plant that lives on the patio has five blossom buds this year. One of them opened yesterday ... The blossoms are short-lived, usually gone in 24-36 hours, but they make the most of it when they're around.


    Cactus Flower #1
    Hasselblad 907x + Summicron-R 90mm f/2



    Cactus Flower #2
    Hasselblad 907x + Summicron-R 90mm f/2

    The Leica Summicron-R 90mm f/2 works well on the 907x using the electronic shutter and covers the full 33x44 format pretty well, I saw little to no corner darkening. On another subject that had hard edges in a more contrasty light, I saw that it produces small bit of red-purple fringing that cleaned up easily with the LR Classic defringe tool.

    Enjoy!

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Godfrey, lovely photos and thank you for sharing!

    Wonder what they would look like with a V + CFV II/50c + 120mm? Also 907x + 21mm up close!

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Quote Originally Posted by elm View Post
    Godfrey, lovely photos and thank you for sharing!
    Wonder what they would look like with a V + CFV II/50c + 120mm? Also 907x + 21mm up close!
    Well, I was going to try with the 500CM/CFVII 50c and 120 Macro, but the light shifted from nice, soft morning foggy light to harsh sunlight too quickly for me to get there. Given the quality of the Makro-Planar 120mm f/4, it would likely rival the Summicron-R 90mm. I actually made exposures with the Summicron 90 from f/2 to f/8; turns out f/5.6 and f/8 were pretty much a necessity to obtain barely enough DoF at the distance required to get an acceptably large image on the sensor.

    The XCD 21mm is far too wide to get an acceptably large image size. The 21mm lens focuses down to 12" from the sensor plane (about 6" from the front of the lens hood) and covers an area that is about 11x15 inches at that distance; the blossom is a three dimensional structure about 8" across and about 11" deep. The plane disk of the blossom would be little more than half the height of the FoV, I couldn't get enough DoF to cover it entirely, and all of the blossom would be pretty weird looking due to extreme foreshortening. Not to mention that getting down on the ground so I could work the tripod adjustments, focus, and exposure with the required focusing rail would be a significant pain.. Fun to consider, though likely not the way to go. Even the 45mm was a bit too wide to get what I was looking for.

    The working distance and perspective afforded by the Summicron-R 90 are kind of telling me that, once finances permit, an XCD 80mm f/1.9 is likely my next lens. Perhaps next year if money doesn't fall out of the sky at me.

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Nice images, Godfrey! In my experience the 120/4 Makro-Planar works quite nicely with 21, 32 and 55mm extension tubes. CA is either marginal or easily corrected in post when dealing with hard edges. I typically stop down to f/11 and have been known to stack them as the situation warrants.

    Keep 'em coming!

    John
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Is anyone here waiting for the 907x chrome version ? No rumors for delivery date ?
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Quote Originally Posted by jng View Post
    Nice images, Godfrey! In my experience the 120/4 Makro-Planar works quite nicely with 21, 32 and 55mm extension tubes. CA is either marginal or easily corrected in post when dealing with hard edges. I typically stop down to f/11 and have been known to stack them as the situation warrants.

    Keep 'em coming!

    John
    My XV Adapter is at Hasselblad now because the bayonet latch would not engage properly with the 21 and 55 mm extension tubes, or the Distagon 50mm f/4 lens either. Because the bayonet mount wouldn't lock the lens mount, I didn't feel comfortable trying the full lens+extension tubes setup on the XV Adapter with the 907x body, but it works fine on the 500CM body with the CFVII 50c back fitted.

    Hopefully Hasselblad will correct the problem (or send me a replacement XV Adapter) within the next week or so.

    G

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    Is anyone here waiting for the 907x chrome version ? No rumors for delivery date ?
    One or two people (either from this forum or elsewhere) have sent me notes asking about the standard model availability. One told me that a dealer or rep said the 907x Special Edition was sold out and no longer available to order (it was supposed to be a limited run from the get go).

    I seem to recall a rumor I heard was that it should be available in March-April 2020, but then the pandemic happened. Somewhere I read another rumor a week ago that earliest expected dates now are end of Summer. But these are all just rumors, no one at Hasselblad is talking out loud.

    My advice is to be patient. I think they're very aware how interested the marketplace is, based on my conversations with their service and marketing reps, but they don't want to say a date and then miss it.

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    My XV Adapter is at Hasselblad now because the bayonet latch would not engage properly with the 21 and 55 mm extension tubes, or the Distagon 50mm f/4 lens either. Because the bayonet mount wouldn't lock the lens mount, I didn't feel comfortable trying the full lens+extension tubes setup on the XV Adapter with the 907x body, but it works fine on the 500CM body with the CFVII 50c back fitted.

    Hopefully Hasselblad will correct the problem (or send me a replacement XV Adapter) within the next week or so.

    G
    Let us know how it goes with the adjustment. Locking some of my lenses into my XV adapter requires an extra ooomph to get them to lock in - I might get HB to look at mine as well if your experience goes smoothly.

    John

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    Is anyone here waiting for the 907x chrome version ? No rumors for delivery date ?
    I was told by my dealer that HB told them the special edition was sold out as well.

    I'm interested in the chrome version, but it all depends on pricing and availability....and if they ever get the 35-75mm XCD I ordered last summer to me. I heard a rumor 2-3 months ago that HB may be ready to launch the chrome edition in May but that's not looking terribly likely now.

    They were supposed to announce pricing and availability of the chrome standard edition last fall...and now we're dealing with the pandemic. Unless they have a bunch of them assembled and boxed in a warehouse somewhere ready to ship, my guess is it will still be another few months before we see an announcement or any shipments. Of course I'd love to be proven wrong.

    As Godfrey said, just hang in there and be patient....sometimes they do countdowns for announcements, sometimes they just slip announcements about new products in emails without warning.

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Quote Originally Posted by jng View Post
    Let us know how it goes with the adjustment. Locking some of my lenses into my XV adapter requires an extra ooomph to get them to lock in - I might get HB to look at mine as well if your experience goes smoothly.

    John
    I know it arrived there on Friday afternoon, I just received a notice from HB Service that they have it in their queue now. I should hear what their evaluation is in a day or so, I guess.

    I tried hard to make it latch with the extension tubes and did some measurement on the latch with both the lens and tubes that didn't work as well as the ones that did. I believe the problem is the position of the bayonet stop on the XV Adapter tube ... it seems to be stopping the rotation of the lens about 0.1mm too soon. And across my four lenses and two extension tubes, 0.15mm seems to be the variation in size of the locking bit on that side of the bayonet mount.

    That seems to me like a variance in the assembly of the adapter tube's flange components has pushed it out of spec: I think if the bayonet flange bolts on the adapter were just loosened a tiny bit and retightened after the extension tube I sent along with it is fitted, forcing the flange into the correct position, it would lock properly. But I'd rather let Hasselblad discover that and inform their QA folks about this problem.

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    ...The XCD 21mm is far too wide to get an acceptably large image size. The 21mm lens focuses down to 12" from the sensor plane (about 6" from the front of the lens hood) and covers an area that is about 11x15 inches at that distance; the blossom is a three dimensional structure about 8" across and about 11" deep. ...
    elm's question provoked me to do a test of the XCD 21mm at minimum focus. So I set the camera up on a tripod at minimum manual focus, looking at my office shelves, and included a tape measure to get a notion of how wide the coverage was. This frame was minimally processed in LR Classic, with the Lens Profile enabled


    Hasselblad 907x + XCD 21mm f/4
    ISO 200 @ f/8 @ 0.3 sec

    Click on image for a half-resolution view.

    The critical focus plane was on the eye/nose of the shark, it's just about exactly 6 inches from the front edge of the lens hood. You can see that, even at f/8, there's significant blurring of the Astroboy figure, just 2.5 inches behind the plane of focus. The hula dancer is pretty grimly treated by wide angle distortion all the way at the edge of the FoV there ...

    And boy, do I need to dust those shelves! :-)

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Hello Godfrey

    I wonder why people who own at least one V-SYSTEM body would buy a V-LENS adapter for the 907x .

    CFV II 50c + 907x + V-LENS adapter + lens = CFV II 50 c + 503CW + lens .

    I was at this point a couple of times and found , that the adapter is only a tool for people owning V-System lenses but no V-SYSTEM body . This is of course very unlikely .

    So I decided against the adapter and will use my beloved V-SYSTEM bodies instead .
    The advantage is obvious . For focusing you can use a split screen + focus peaking while in case you use the adapter you only have focus peaking .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    Hello Godfrey

    I wonder why people who own at least one V-SYSTEM body would buy a V-LENS adapter for the 907x .

    CFV II 50c + 907x + V-LENS adapter + lens = CFV II 50 c + 503CW + lens .

    I was at this point a couple of times and found , that the adapter is only a tool for people owning V-System lenses but no V-SYSTEM body . This is of course very unlikely .

    So I decided against the adapter and will use my beloved V-SYSTEM bodies instead .
    The advantage is obvious . For focusing you can use a split screen + focus peaking while in case you use the adapter you only have focus peaking .
    If I may change your formula a little bit:

    907x + CFV II 50c + XV Adapter + XH Bracket (Tripod Mount Ring) + V-system lens = 500 body + CFV II 50 c + V-system lens.

    I can't answer for "people" but I can answer your implied query for me...

    I thought the same way and didn't order the XV Adapter at first. However, what I found after doing extensive experimentation and testing with all my lenses and focusing screens is that the most practical and consistent way for me to obtain critical focus with ANY V-system lens on the SLR bodies is to put the body into 'dumb tube' mode and use the CFVII 50c back's Live View and electronic shutter. At which point, the XV Adapter tube is smaller, lighter, and with the tripod mounting ring becomes a handier piece of equipment to use.

    It is not quite so simple as just "switch to the split screen focusing aid". I find I need different screens to aid focusing depending upon which lens I'm using for most consistent results. Also, the standard focusing magnifier in my (older) waist level finder does not provide as good a focusing environment as using the focusing magnifier chimney with the diopter adjustment eye piece ... I get a significant bump in the percentage of accurately focused images, shooting wide open, when I switch to the right focusing screen for the particular lens I'm using AND to the chimney magnifier together. Otherwise, most of the time I find I need to stop down two stops to obtain enough DoF and compensate for focusing inaccuracy.

    Once I found out that the XH Bracket is also a perfect match to the XV Adapter*, that becomes a nice part of the system because it puts the tripod foot in a much better location to use with the V-system lenses AND it allows easier use of the CFVII 50c full native format since you can rotate the camera and lens in the tripod adapter for horizontal/vertical format photos as well, without needing an L-bracket.

    * Someone here informed me, thank you again! I did actually find the info in one of the Hasselblad instruction manuals too—I think the X1D II manual says that in the accessory section.

    That's why I modified your formula a little bit.

    Having the adapter tube to use with the 907x body allows more consistent use of V-system and XCD series lenses together when shooting. Using the 500CM body with the CFVII 50c back instead of the adapter tube allows more fluid use of both film and digital capture together at the same time when shooting, limited to only V-system lenses. I pick what to carry depending upon what my goal for a particular shooting session might be.

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Thank you Godfrey. I enjoy the photo you took with your 21mm and showing me how close you can get with it. Makes me miss the 903 SWC I sold to get my H3D II/31 years ago.

    Many of us who uses Hasselblad cameras treat the equipment as a tool to get/create images. Thank you for sharing how you use your tools and the images you create. I am hoping I can get my hands on a 907x/CFV II 50c also. The 45/4 P makes it quite a nice compact package to travel with (like the SWC or xPan).

    Keep sharing your images! Thank you. Be safe and be well!

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Hi Godfrey,

    I remember we discussed time ago about the problem of achieving precise focus with a digital back and the 500 body's focusing screens + lenses.
    At that time you were pretty sure to get accurate focusing by using a 500 body and the just ordered CFV-50c II.

    Now that you realised how hard it is, please bear with me if I ask again what I've asked at that time: having almost ruled out the 500 body, wouldn't it be easier to get an X1D with the XV adapter? Just asking why I'm considering the two options as well (currently owning of the first version of CFV-50c).

    In the meantime, thanks for all your feedbacks about your new digital back.

    Best,
    Marco

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    If I may change your formula a little bit:

    907x + CFV II 50c + XV Adapter + XH Bracket (Tripod Mount Ring) + V-system lens = 500 body + CFV II 50 c + V-system lens.

    I can't answer for "people" but I can answer your implied query for me...

    I thought the same way and didn't order the XV Adapter at first. However, what I found after doing extensive experimentation and testing with all my lenses and focusing screens is that the most practical and consistent way for me to obtain critical focus with ANY V-system lens on the SLR bodies is to put the body into 'dumb tube' mode and use the CFVII 50c back's Live View and electronic shutter. At which point, the XV Adapter tube is smaller, lighter, and with the tripod mounting ring becomes a handier piece of equipment to use.

    It is not quite so simple as just "switch to the split screen focusing aid". I find I need different screens to aid focusing depending upon which lens I'm using for most consistent results. Also, the standard focusing magnifier in my (older) waist level finder does not provide as good a focusing environment as using the focusing magnifier chimney with the diopter adjustment eye piece ... I get a significant bump in the percentage of accurately focused images, shooting wide open, when I switch to the right focusing screen for the particular lens I'm using AND to the chimney magnifier together. Otherwise, most of the time I find I need to stop down two stops to obtain enough DoF and compensate for focusing inaccuracy.

    Once I found out that the XH Bracket is also a perfect match to the XV Adapter*, that becomes a nice part of the system because it puts the tripod foot in a much better location to use with the V-system lenses AND it allows easier use of the CFVII 50c full native format since you can rotate the camera and lens in the tripod adapter for horizontal/vertical format photos as well, without needing an L-bracket.

    * Someone here informed me, thank you again! I did actually find the info in one of the Hasselblad instruction manuals too—I think the X1D II manual says that in the accessory section.

    That's why I modified your formula a little bit.

    Having the adapter tube to use with the 907x body allows more consistent use of V-system and XCD series lenses together when shooting. Using the 500CM body with the CFVII 50c back instead of the adapter tube allows more fluid use of both film and digital capture together at the same time when shooting, limited to only V-system lenses. I pick what to carry depending upon what my goal for a particular shooting session might be.

    G
    Marco Ristuccia
    photography.marcoristuccia.com
    "Unconcerned but not indifferent."

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Having used a digital back extensively on my 501CM as well as the X1D, in my experience the main advantage of using the new CFV50 II on the 50x bodies vs the X1D/907x is the ability to use the leaf shutters. And that incomparable "thwack!" sound of the rear baffle barn doors opening and closing. Otherwise accurate focusing can be a real pain, especially in dim light, at least for my aging eyes. When bolted to a tripod and shooting subjects for which the electronic shutter is appropriate, IMHO the X1D/907x configuration is frankly the better (and saner) option. YMMV, of course.

    John
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Quote Originally Posted by mristuccia View Post
    Hi Godfrey,

    I remember we discussed time ago about the problem of achieving precise focus with a digital back and the 500 body's focusing screens + lenses.
    At that time you were pretty sure to get accurate focusing by using a 500 body and the just ordered CFV-50c II.

    Now that you realised how hard it is, please bear with me if I ask again what I've asked at that time: having almost ruled out the 500 body, wouldn't it be easier to get an X1D with the XV adapter? Just asking why I'm considering the two options as well (currently owning of the first version of CFV-50c).

    In the meantime, thanks for all your feedbacks about your new digital back.

    Best,
    Marco
    Marco,

    I can get very accurate focus with the 500CM and CFVII 50c back. It just takes a bit more effort and is slower than using the CFVII 50c Live View feature. Using the adapter with the 907x body makes more sense to me for a lot of shooting.

    I didn't order just a back. I ordered the 907x/CFVII 50c Special Edition, which includes back and body, and I also ordered both the XCD 21mm and XCD 45mm P lenses.

    I like the form factor and use dynamics of the 907x since I like to shoot below eye level. That was one of my primary reasons for being more interested in the 907x over the X1D II. Add the fact that I can use the digital back with the 500CM and all my old lenses as well, and it's just a more versatile setup for me.

    Of course, there's nothing to say that at some point I won't also purchase an X1D II body to add to the kit. It all depends on what it is I am trying to do photographically.

    G
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    It is not quite so simple as just "switch to the split screen focusing aid". I find I need different screens to aid focusing depending upon which lens I'm using for most consistent results. Also, the standard focusing magnifier in my (older) waist level finder does not provide as good a focusing environment as using the focusing magnifier chimney with the diopter adjustment eye piece ... I get a significant bump in the percentage of accurately focused images, shooting wide open, when I switch to the right focusing screen for the particular lens I'm using AND to the chimney magnifier together. Otherwise, most of the time I find I need to stop down two stops to obtain enough DoF and compensate for focusing inaccuracy.
    Not wanting to go over this again too much, but:

    1) Yes, this is what we've been saying for a while in this thread and others. I said using this back with the V bodies would be a compromise and you've listed some of those compromises above. Again I'm going to rant that Hasselblad highlighting the back working with their entire legacy of V bodies but saying nothing of the problems we have talked about, and you have now realised, is poor form.

    2) If you're having to use a different screen with different lenses then something is off. You should get your V body CLA'd and calibrated. Possibly even your lenses are out. If the split screen works with one lens it should work with them all.

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    And in case you need the proper car for it: E-Mustang

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Quote Originally Posted by Photon42 View Post
    And in case you need the proper car for it: E-Mustang
    I'm trying to figure out to whom and to what this comment refers...? I'm a bit perplexed about its relevance (and hopefully intended humor content).

    G

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    I've been working on another project with the 907x ... TCDeveaux' question in another thread inspired that I start writing about it.

    ---
    Quote Originally Posted by tcdeveau View Post
    Question for all the 907x/CFVII users out there - any recommendations for an arca/really right stuff compatible tripod plate for the 907x body? With or without L-bracket.
    Asking for a friend
    I have been using a Benro PU50 camera plate with the 907x. It works well, can be fitted either in fore-aft orientation or side-to-side orientation, and its thin, inset rubber pads prevent rotation nicely once snugged properly. Key in fitting it is to center it onto the 907x body ... I found if I fitted it slid back a little ways that it was exerting a little pressure on the CFVII 50c back in one particular spot. Don't know if that was any problem, but it disturbed me.

    Since then, I've been thinking of other handling improvements. Hasselblad showed their prototype grip in a photo at announcement time, which turns the 907x into an eye-level camera and gives you right-hand controls to operate it with. That looks like it will be great for that kind of use when it appears, but it isn't how I ordinarily want to hold the camera ... I like shooting with it at waist level using the LCD. What makes sense for my goals is to handle the camera using a 'dumb' grip on the left side, where there are little in way of controls, and leaving the right side free for access to the control dial, alternate button, shutter release, and focusing ring. Arranged correctly, this would also allow for using the full format (LCD in vertical orientation) by rotating the whole camera easily and again leaving the controls accessible.

    Cobbling something like this together, I thought of the Three-Legged Thing short L-plate that someone had mentioned in one of these threads and looked it up. It looks like it's functional but I wasn't impressed with the style and bulk of it ... I'd want this grip to be on a camera a lot of the time so it's important that whatever I pick to build it on fits the body pretty tightly.

    Poking around, I came up with the Kirk Enterprises (née Kirk Photo) Universal Small L-Bracket. This is very trim and light, sits very close to the body, and has two channels for the securing bolt. With the bolt fitted into the front channel, it allows full access to the control dial and shutter release with the vertical foot snug and nearly flat against the left side of the camera. There's a loop for a hand/neck strap on the right (in addition to the standard strap lug), and the standard strap lug is accessible through the rails on the left. That presents an excellent L-bracket all by itself for using the camera with its full 3:4 format on a tripod, and it's relatively inexpensive as these things go.

    Next, I discovered the Really Right Stuff 22MM MICRO CLAMP, a really tiny A-S compatible clamp with two 1/4-20 tripod mounts on its base. Seems to me that I can fit a hand-whittled wooden grip to this with two bolts and make the combination of this plus the ULB-1 into a nicely adjustable, reasonably compact and light left-hand grip for the 907x package that will suit my desires. So I've got all the bits on the table, a nice block of wood, and my whittling knives.

    Here are a couple of photos of the camera with ULB-1 fitted:



    Click image for a video of the camera and L-bracket from a variety of angles and orientations.

    You'll notice that the camera is tilted forward in the L-bracket. This is because the rubber pad that provides grip for the L-bracket is only compressed under its leading edge and the rear of it is not compressed, forcing the rear of the camera upwards. I'l cut and trim the rubber pad so that it only spans the narrow width of the 907x body to solve this issue ... then the camera will sit level in the bracket. (These bits only just arrived a day or so ago, so I'm still working out how to use them best. :-).

    The last two photos in the video show the RRS 22mm micro-clamp fitted on the vertical portion of the L bracket. I'm looking for the appropriate bolts and selecting the bit of wood I'll whittle into a grip.

    G
    Last edited by Godfrey; 25th May 2020 at 10:44.
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I'm trying to figure out to whom and to what this comment refers...? I'm a bit perplexed about its relevance (and hopefully intended humor content).

    G
    check out the hasselblad commercial for the new digital back. I am perplexed you did not watch it
    Here is the link.

    Cheers
    Ivo

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Quote Originally Posted by Photon42 View Post
    check out the hasselblad commercial for the new digital back. I am perplexed you did not watch it
    Here is the link.

    Cheers
    Ivo
    LOL! Oh, that. Well, Ivo, I remember seeing that (and nipping a copy of it for my archive) back in June of 2019. It certainly wasn't in the forefront of my memory until right now when you reminded me of it.

    G

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    I wrote some more on this topic on the CFV II 50c back thread, though I'd combine the posts and pull them into the 907x thread since this is actually specifically 907x information.

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    ..
    You'll notice that the camera is tilted forward in the L-bracket. This is because the rubber pad that provides grip for the L-bracket is only compressed under its leading edge and the rear of it is not compressed, forcing the rear of the camera upwards. I'l cut and trim the rubber pad so that it only spans the narrow width of the 907x body to solve this issue ... then the camera will sit level in the bracket. ..
    Further on this: I trimmed the rubber pad which helped, but there's still a bit of tilt. The issue is that the rubber pad sits into a recess in the L-bracket. The bottom of the recess is flat, as is the upper ledge. On a camera with a larger base, the rubber would compress and the upper ledge would contact the camera base and provide a secure level point. Unfortunately, this isn't the case due to the 907x very narrow, wide base surface.
    ...

    IMO, the camera should be resting on the metal when the bolt is snugged to about 3-4 Nm, the rubber should be there purely as an twist prevention measure.

    The issue is that the 907x base is very narrow, only 14mm front to back engagement onto a surface, and the tripod bolt hole is offset to the front, centered at about 9mm from the back of that surface; there's only 2mm of material from the front of the bolt hole to the front edge of the plate. A slot for a necked 1/4-20 bolt is 5.5mm wide, so that leaves only a very little bit of engagement of the plate and camera in the fore-aft direction on the sides of the slot on a universal plate with the slot running side-to-side. A better plate for the 907x would have just one properly positioned hole at the right spot so that the engagement with the camera was all the way around the attachment point, distributing the amount of pressure on the camera base to the largest possible area.

    It makes me uncomfortable to see how small the engagement area is with a lateral slot when I consider the torques of a largish and heavy lens (like my 21mm f/4, never mind the 120mm f/4 macro or 80mm f/1.9 that I'm thinking about) hanging off the front of the bayonet with the camera turned sideways for a vertical shot, never mind if I'm carrying the camera by a grip affixed through this bolt hole. There is a recess on the baseplate of the camera for a locating dowel centered about 13.5mm from the tripod hole: The best plate for this camera would have a snug fitting dowel on the plate there so that when the camera was in any orientation other than level and horizontal, twisting forces would not be defeated purely by friction at the plate/base juncture.

    I'm thinking now that one solution I can use is to construct a mounting shim—brass or steel material, 1mm thick, the length and width of the 907x's mounting base, with a properly positioned dowel for the locating peg hole, a through hole for a plate's securing bolt, and another dowel or similar designed to drop into the lateral slot. Probably way more engineering than is necessary but, as Heinlein once said, "Everything to excess, moderation is for monks!"

    The Fotodiox Pro Leica R to X mount adapter has a built-in tripod foot, and the Hasselblad XV Adapter takes the XH Bracket tripod mount: Both of them move the loads of securing the camera on a tripod from the base plate to the large and robust lens mounting flange, and all that the flange ever has to support is the weight of the body and back. This is nearly ideal, but doesn't suit my customized idea for a left hand grip.

    G

  35. #235
    Member phOtOny teXas's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    mOOn cAmeRa - 907X SE - XCD45P - Tourist Trap - Galveston, teXas - Walk Alone




    Tourist
    by tOny endieveri, on Flickr






    Trap
    by tOny endieveri, on Flickr
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    I hope I didn't kill the thread by posting phOtOs





    Magic Window
    by tOny endieveri, on Flickr
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    No, not for me. I like seeing any photos made with the 907x.

    I've just been busy with other things the past few days.

    G
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    [QUOTE=phOtOny teXas;819309]I hope I didn't kill the thread by posting phOtOs
    I think it is because not many members have got this camera yet, I will let you enjoy clicking it and I will enjoy the photos uploaded.
    PS: I will recommend this thread to any would be buyers of 907 because our friend Godfrey is doing a real life test without involving any stupid mathematics or science Just real test,no confusing jargons. Godfrey, this thread will become a reference thread as it grows. Thanks for the hard work.



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    Subscriber and Workshop Member MGrayson's Avatar
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Quote Originally Posted by B L View Post
    PS: I will recommend this thread to any would be buyers of 907 because our friend Godfrey is doing a real life test without involving any stupid mathematics or science Just real test,no confusing jargons. Godfrey, this thread will become a reference thread as it grows. Thanks for the hard work.
    And I will continue to post stupid mathematics and science discreetly in other threads, where they belong.

    Matt
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Quote Originally Posted by B L View Post
    I think it is because not many members have got this camera yet, I will let you enjoy clicking it and I will enjoy the photos uploaded.
    PS: I will recommend this thread to any would be buyers of 907 because our friend Godfrey is doing a real life test without involving any stupid mathematics or science Just real test,no confusing jargons. Godfrey, this thread will become a reference thread as it grows. Thanks for the hard work.
    Thank you for the compliment!

    I'm not a great reviewer, don't really have the patience, but I buy equipment to use it and I'm happy to share my experiences in that use.

    Although I haven't posted more 907x photos (yet), indirectly I have because I've been working out how to use it best as a copy camera for my Polaroid prints and 6x6 negatives. The Leica Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm lens does a fine job with the 907x (using Fotodiox Pro R to X mount adapter and the electronic shutter) for these purposes: no vignetting in the corners in the near field and beautiful rendering quality.

    This Polaroid is from my cycle ride across the Golden Gate Bridge on Wednesday, that's my riding buddy:


    Linda at the Golden Gate Bridge on the 83rd Anniversary of Its Opening - San Francisco 27 May 2020

    Come for the ride! On YouTube @ https://youtu.be/oP5W_-oEn0I

    The first time I tried to use the 907x as a copy camera, I had a very odd problem: Whenever I fitted it to the copy stand, the touch screen and controls would freeze up after just a couple of minutes and I had to power cycle the camera. I reported it to Hasselblad Support and spent a good hour on the phone with the tech trying to figure out what was happening. We couldn't suss it, so he sent a report and a log file over to engineering in Sweden.

    A day later, trying to get some more specific data on the problem, I had it on the tripod and flipped it nose down to see if I could get it to fail after some repeatable set of steps. I had the bubble level display on so I could orient the camera accurately and my finger brushed the icon to calibrate the user mode of the level. I figured what the heck, hit the calibrate button. And since then the problem has disappeared. I sent that to Sweden via the tech as well.

    Anyway, the 907x works really well for this purpose, and both Phocus Mobile 2 on my iPad Pro 11 and Phocus on my Mac mini drive it very nicely.

    I'm continuing to work out the issue I found with the Kirk Photo L-bracket and waiting for the other two to arrive to see if I find them suitable instead. If they don't work to my satisfaction I know exactly how to modify the Kirk bracket now and will do that instead. Meanwhile, I've started whittling out my custom, left-side, wooden handgrip to use with the L-bracket and mini clamp.

    I'll get back to posting a few 907x photos perhaps tomorrow...

    G
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    I have a 907x L-Plate Winner!

    Getting an L-Plate for the Hasselblad 907x that fitted snugly and worked to my satisfaction has been a couple of weeks effort. The 907x' very narrow front-to-back base poses issues that surfaced on the Kirk Photo UL-1 plate due to the thick rubber insert in that plate's base. These were lessened but still apparent on the Three-Legged Thing Ellie (short) plate due to the positioning of the adjustment rails on the vertical support and again due to the rubber pads in the base plate.

    Finally, the Desmond Arca L-Plate DAL-1 solves all the issues: It's a very simple plate, just the L-rails and three laterally oriented attachment slots in the base plate. NO rubber, no adjustments ... It just fits. Because the base is all flat metal and the vertical leg is a simple 90° bend up, the 907x base sits very securely and stably on metal across its width and to the full 14mm depth. Here are some photos:







    Link to my album of six photos of the DAL-1 fitted to the 907x on Flickr.com:
    https://flic.kr/s/aHsmNB2911

    The really good news is that this is the least expensive of the three L-plates I've experimented with, only $26 delivered from B&H Photo to California: Desmond DAL-1 L-Plate..

    I've tested the DAL-1 on both my Arca-Swiss ball head (as you see in the photos) and on the Peak Design Travel Tripod head (you need to remove the Travel Tripod head's guard screws). Fits perfectly, sits securely and the camera is absolutely level in both orientations to within a degree or so. Setting up the camera on the A-S Monoball P0/P0h in either horizontal or vertical orientation allows for smooth and level panning.

    I'll send the Three-Legged Thing Ellie back for a refund. I've already modified the Kirk Photo plate, so I'll set that aside for some future project.

    G
    Last edited by Godfrey; 3rd June 2020 at 11:38.
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Hello Godfrey

    That L-PLATE looks very good in deed . I will have a look to it in detail , just out of interest .

    The best ever made L-PLATE , in my opinion , was made by SUNCHAI .
    I have V1 . V2 has an integrated Q-plate .

    It is made by cambo .

    https://www.getdpi.com/forum/medium-...hlight=sunchai

    Unforunately , this company disappered after V2 was on the market . But there might still be some V2 L-PLATEs
    around at various dealers and/or ebay .

    If there is anyone out there , who knows more about SUNCHAI , please come back with your info .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    I have a 907x L-Plate Winner! :dd

    Getting an L-Plate for the Hasselblad 907x that fitted snugly and worked to my satisfaction has been a couple of weeks effort. The 907x' very narrow front-to-back base poses issues that surfaced on the Kirk Photo UL-1 plate due to the thick rubber insert in that plate's base. These were lessened but still apparent on the Three-Legged Thing Ellie (short) plate due to the positioning of the adjustment rails on the vertical support and again due to the rubber pads in the base plate.

    Finally, the Desmond Arca L-Plate DAL-1 solves all the issues: It's a very simple plate, just the L-rails and three laterally oriented attachment slots in the base plate. NO rubber, no adjustments ... It just fits. Because the base is all flat metal and the vertical leg is a simple 90° bend up, the 907x base sits very securely and stably on metal across its width and to the full 14mm depth. Here are some photos:


    The really good news is that this is the least expensive of the three L-plates I've experimented with, only $26 delivered from B&H Photo to California: Desmond DAL-1 L-Plate..

    I've tested the DAL-1 on both my Arca-Swiss ball head (as you see in the photos) and on the Peak Design Travel Tripod head (you need to remove the Travel Tripod head's guard screws). Fits perfectly, sits securely and the camera is absolutely level in both orientations to within a degree or so. Setting up the camera on the A-S Monoball P0/P0h in either horizontal or vertical orientation allows for smooth and level panning.

    I'll send the Three-Legged Thing Ellie back for a refund. I've already modified the Kirk Photo plate, so I'll set that aside for some future project.

    G
    Thanks gOdfrey
    Appreciate your looking into this... I will be getting a DAL-1, could of used it yesterday on a commercial all-tripod shoot yesterday.
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    The DAL-1 L-Plate is momentarily not available in EUROPE .
    An other interesting L-Plate is the ROLLEI L-WINKEL (plate)
    Have a look here

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Quote Originally Posted by jotloob View Post
    The DAL-1 L-Plate is momentarily not available in EUROPE .
    An other interesting L-Plate is the ROLLEI L-WINKEL (plate) ...
    One issue with that plate, for me anyway, are that the rubber pad will make the 907x's 14x60mm base difficult to seat flat and square to the plate. This is the problem I had with the Kirk ULB-1 and the TLT Ellie (short). The Ellie would be fixable in this respect by removing the rubber pads, or shaving them down; the Kirk wasn't fixable that way because the pad sat in a recess and the edge of the recess gets in the way of the 907x body when the pad is removed.

    The other issue is whether the attachment bolts align with the 907x body. The body is very nearly square from the front, so to achieve what I wanted the bottom and side attachment points must sit very close to the body so that you can rotate the camera around the lens axis without having to realign the tripod. To me, that's the point of an L-bracket. If the vertical fixing leg is spaced away from the body, when you flip the camera to vertical position it will shift the lens axis upwards ... unless the base piece is thick enough to shift the lens axis up a similar amount.

    Perhaps I'm a little geeky about this, but I wanted something trim and tight to the body that worked correctly without a lot of fussing. I could have modified the TLT Ellie Short to work the way I wanted if I hadn't found the DAL-1, but I'd rather not have to do that sort of thing.



    G

  46. #246
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Returning to the issue of the XV Adapter bayonet latch not working with my V-system extension tubes or the
    Distagon C 50mm

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    ...
    Oh yes: I sent a note to Hasselblad about the bayonet mount latching problem with my Distagon 50 and V-system extension tubes yesterday. I received a response this morning: They'll evaluate (and hopefully fix) the problem for me. Yay!
    ...
    postscript - I've packaged and shipped the X-V Adapter and a 21mm extension tube that illustrates the problem to Hasselblad Service. AND I've ordered the H-V Bracket tripod mount for it... That makes it much more usable for my needs.
    ...
    Well. This happened over several weeks time: Hasselblad Service examined the XV Adapter and concluded that it was fine, all of their tests succeeded, and were going to ship it back. I immediately called my friend in Customer Service and asked if they had tried the 21mm extension tube I supplied with it. He tested that and, of course, it didn't latch, so he asked the repair tech to look at it. The repair tech said, "it's too old, they stopped making this extension tube in 1982.

    I said, "Huh? They have never changed the bayonet flange and its mechanism, and btw these are my four lenses' dates of manufacture (1967, 1973, 1981, and 1992) ... It's the 1973 that doesn't work along with the two extension tubes which have no serial numbers so they cannot be dated. Why would the XV Adapter work properly with the 1967 and 1992 lenses, and both those lenses work fine with the extension tubes, yet the extension tubes and the later lens not work?" The repair tech had no answer, so the Customer Service rep said he'd send a query to engineering in Sweden.

    Hasselblad Engineering in Sweden responded today, through the Customer Service rep, that a situation exists where *some* legacy lenses and accessories fail to latch correctly on the XV Adapter (randomly, I presume). They are (now) aware of this problem and are planning to release an updated XV Adapter to solve it, some time in the (hopefully) near future. I will receive one of the updated XV Adapter units when it is released.

    My take on this: I conjecture that the manufacturing spec on the XV Adapter is right on the limits of tolerance for the latch mechanism and that production variances throw it out of spec with random lenses and other accessories that use the lens mount flange. My measurements showed that if the lens/extension tubes that won't latch could rotate about 0.4mm further, the latch would work. These same components work fine on both my 500CM bodies (and on other, later bodies I've tried them on) with about a 0.05mm clearance or slop when latched. A variance of 0.5mm is not unusual in manufacture of these kinds of components: the bayonet latch is otherwise not a critical accuracy component. That's all just my conjecture, but I've been in and around manufacture of such components for long enough that I think it's pretty close to the truth.

    So ... my existing XV Adapter is on the way back and I can use my 80, 120 Macro, and 150mm lenses on it. The temporary loss of the 50mm isn't significant because I have the 45P lens; the loss of the extension tubes is not too significant because the CFVII 50c format is smaller than the original film format, so what I usually use them for requires a little less magnification to work with. I can always put the 500CM body into action as an adapter tube if need be as well...

    What I'm glad about is that Hasselblad has admitted there is an issue and has made a statement that they will fix it, which was my goal in sending the XV Adapter to them instead of just exchanging it for another that might not have the same problem. I'm also delighted with the Customer Service rep who persevered rather than just telling me to kiss off on this relatively trivial issue (as some other reps from other companies have done, although not in quite those words ).

    Now on to the next 907x project .. and maybe back to making some photographs! LOL!

    G

    "No matter where you go, there you are."
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    From my walk on May 11 ... Hard to believe it was that long ago!


    Twigs - Santa Clara 2020


    Sprig - Santa Clara 2020


    Leaf & Twig - Santa Clara 2020

    all:
    Hasselblad 907x + XCD 45mm f/4 P
    ISO 100 @ f/5-6.3 @ 1/80

    enjoy! G
    Godfrey - GDGPhoto Flickr Stream
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Someone asked me where they could get the Desmond DAL-1 L-plate. I found that Amazon.com has them, same $19.95 price, but more importantly I found that they had an illustration of the plate with the dimensions lined out. I've attached a screen shot.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DAL-1_dimensions.jpg 
Views:	6 
Size:	17.1 KB 
ID:	149786

    That might prove useful information whether or not you want this plate.

    G
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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Very good , thank you . AMAZON here has listed it but the L-plate is out of stock .
    Regards . Jürgen .
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    Re: Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

    Quote Originally Posted by Godfrey View Post
    Someone asked me where they could get the Desmond DAL-1 L-plate. I found that Amazon.com has them, same $19.95 price, but more importantly I found that they had an illustration of the plate with the dimensions lined out. I've attached a screen shot.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	DAL-1_dimensions.jpg 
Views:	6 
Size:	17.1 KB 
ID:	149786

    That might prove useful information whether or not you want this plate.

    G
    Thanks for sharing all of this information Godfrey, very helpful, and it definitely seems like you've been having lots of fun with yours. I may have to get my own DAL-1 here shortly.....
    -Todd

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