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Nikon mirrorless ?

Jorgen Udvang

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
I visited my pusher a couple of hours ago. He's been a Sony enthusiast since the first A7, but he didn't doubt for a second that Sony is in for a big challenge now. Apparently, Canon will launch EOS R within a week or so. Canon can probably launch whatever they want. As long as it has a full frame sensor and works seamlessly with EOS lenses, it will outsell Sony and Nikon combined with ease. There are very very many EOS lenses out there, and they all feature a fully electronic interface. This will be interesting :)
 
ptomsu

ptomsu

Workshop Member
Jorgen Udvang said:
I visited my pusher a couple of hours ago. He's been a Sony enthusiast since the first A7, but he didn't doubt for a second that Sony is in for a big challenge now. Apparently, Canon will launch EOS R within a week or so. Canon can probably launch whatever they want. As long as it has a full frame sensor and works seamlessly with EOS lenses, it will outsell Sony and Nikon combined with ease. There are very very many EOS lenses out there, and they all feature a fully electronic interface. This will be interesting :)
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Must admit I have the same feelings about Canon FF mirrorless introduction. Canon by far has the largest base of EOS lenses out in the field and if only their new mirrorless can take these lenses and keep all functionality (speed and AF and IS) this should be a winner in terms of sales.

One thing that is stellar in Canon cameras (sensors) already is Dual Pixel AF which they brought to an unbelievable perfection level - this is great for video anyway.

And maybe they also can deliver the quantities of cameras that are ordered - looking at you Nikon.
 
Jorgen Udvang

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
ptomsu said:
Must admit I have the same feelings about Canon FF mirrorless introduction. Canon by far has the largest base of EOS lenses out in the field and if only their new mirrorless can take these lenses and keep all functionality (speed and AF and IS) this should be a winner in terms of sales.

One thing that is stellar in Canon cameras (sensors) already is Dual Pixel AF which they brought to an unbelievable perfection level - this is great for video anyway.

And maybe they also can deliver the quantities of cameras that are ordered - looking at you Nikon.
Click to expand...
Another danger for Sony is that many photographers use Canon lenses with their A7 bodies. The question is if they'll stay with Sony when Canon launch their own mirrorless cameras, and as you point out, Canon's dual pixel AF is second to none.
 
S

SrMphoto

Well-known member
ptomsu said:
Another critical but in the end very positive video about the Nikon Z introduction and what the future may hold for this ....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ud0ljGVhn6M&feature=em-uploademail

BTW I pretty much agree with that myself and overall like this channel compared to many others.
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Thank you for the link. The author of that review is "Three Blind Men and An Elephant Productions" one of very few worth listening at all.

Apart from horrible marketing, Nikon is making a mistake to demo Z7 cameras without XQD cards, which causes horrible EVF lag when taking pictures.
 
ptomsu

ptomsu

Workshop Member
SrMphoto said:
Thank you for the link. The author of that review is "Three Blind Men and An Elephant Productions" one of very few worth listening at all.

Apart from horrible marketing, Nikon is making a mistake to demo Z7 cameras without XQD cards, which causes horrible EVF lag when taking pictures.
Click to expand...
Why would the absence of XQD cards introduce more EVF lag?
 
iiiNelson

iiiNelson

Well-known member
SrMphoto said:
From latest DPReview Z7/a7rIII comparison:
"Though it's worth mentioning that Sony's confusing interface for setting up the dual card slots might make you wish it only had one card slot to begin with."
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Sorry just now seeing this and I haven’t read any of the pages I missed yet as I was in Toronto with the wife celebrating our anniversary a little early. I said most of what I have to say in this thread (no need to beat dead horses) about this camera and I’ll leave it at that. I’ll try the finished version for myself out when it releases but Nikon has a 3 hour even here a couple days ago that I missed due to being on vacation.

Now regarding the “complexity” of Sony cameras see below options either a 1-2 minute video showing the preferred setups for the users.

Watch this video -

https://youtu.be/GJCWDP0v--U

or read this article from Colby Brown (memory card setup is like the 2nd or 3rd section) -

https://alphauniverse.com/stories/how-to-set-up-your-new-a7r-iii/

If the setup seems “confusing” to anyone that’s used a camera with dual card slots then I don’t know. It’s pretty straight forward to me and if it confused the writer for DPReview then maybe he or she is in the wrong line of work to be reviewing consumer/professional electronics... it doesn’t establish that sony cameras are hard to use but rather that complexity is a subjective thing. At worst it calls into questionthe legitimacy of being a professional expert reviewer by the writer the same way I wouldn’t be comfortable with my dental hygienist complaining about the way the toothbrush works or the way the floss is released from a container while I’m in a chair... those points should just be moot when a person can customize to their liking.

I like to deal in realities personally but I welcome caveats such as a person may be used to brand X, Y, Z, etc. which may make getting used to initial setup easier but in the end it’s all just my opinion.
 
S

SrMphoto

Well-known member
ptomsu said:
Why would the absence of XQD cards introduce more EVF lag?
Click to expand...
Several people who attended the demo days reported on DPR the presence/absence of lag depending on the absence/presence of the XQD card.
Without the card, you need to be in Demo mode in order to review the image you took. I assume that code path (storing image in internal memory, instead of on card) has not been optimized.
 
S

SrMphoto

Well-known member
Thorkil said:
I do have a question: If one should choose betwen the Z7 45Mp and the Z6 with 24Mp, which one would you go for?, if:
we don't take the money question in account
if I dont need to print bigger than perhaps A2+
perhaps I don't often need to crop
Is it evident that higher Mp gives better IQ? I remember pictures from Godfrey and Bensogna with old Olympus 6Mp cameras (as far as I remember) with outstanding quality from these fat pixels.
But perhaps screens are very forgiving?
I remember the D800E as difficult to handle, sort of given shorter DOF, demanding higher shutterspeed, demanding more heavy stopping down to get the whole imagesurface in sufficient quality.
Therefore more tripod (which I do not intend) on a Z7 ? Gone is the free careless-fredom, hipshots and so?
Are the better microcontrasts that is seems to be in MF, mainly because of sensor size or resolution, or off course combined?
Ross Harvey seemed to be able to do careless pictures with splendid succes with the Z7 (perhaps saved by an effective IBIS) (Nikon Z7 Review | Destination Wedding Photographer), would his pictures be that clear with a Z6?
We have clever sharpening with C1 etc., that might be sufficient to get a Z6 to compete with the Z7 ? at the max. A2+ size
best thorkil
Click to expand...
Another point for Z7:

If you want smaller files and higher FPS, you can set Z7 in DX mode (20Mp ?) and still shoot without AA filter. It appears the EVF has a viewing mode where even in DX mode it fills out the whole EVF. Something the OVF based cameras cannot do.
 
Hulyss Bowman

Hulyss Bowman

Active member
Well… Since day one I observe the tests and specifications and nothing push me to buy one. I do not care about the one card slot or the sensor performances. I need a FF mirroless and not a Sony.


I care about the original 2007 Nikon Soul and seriouseness I was used and hooked to with Nikon philosophy. For me it is lost in oblivion for ever but I might be wrong.


The AF implementation do not please me, the lenses offering at the start is not what I expected, the look of the lenses is cheap (even if they perform well) and the naming looks incoherent. S line for what ? Where is the gold ring and the rugged feel we are used to with usual F lenses ? They really want to create a cheaper line of lenses than this initial offering ? Does it will outperform my D700 in AF tracking and all (absolutely no) ? Do I really need to invest that much money into XQD cards ? Why the Df was not a better product, more sleak and serious with at least a 1/8000 shutter ? Do I really need 45 million pixels ??? Why the Z7 is that much expensive while the D850 is cheaper and better ? Why this damn PASM dial for christ shake ???


Those are all the questions I have (among a truck of others).


Do I keep my D700 and one or two lenses for reportages and weddings and does it sound more logic to think about the Canon EOS R as a ML option ?


For now it is yes.

I already seen a brand diverging from her initial soul and serious userbase : Sigma (cameras).
What I feal about Nikon is that they are on freeweel mode, depending on other compagnies to create something very coherent, reassuring and serious like the D3/D700/D300.

This Mirrorless do not reassure me in the old Nikon way.
 
ptomsu

ptomsu

Workshop Member
For now I cannot give my final judgement about the Z7/Z6 since I did not have the chance to handle them.

But what I already can say is that I am kind of disappointed in most areas and that might only change when I have a chance to hold them in hand and try how they perform FOR ME.

I am definitely very disappointed with the first Z-lenses selection no matter how good they really are - all of these are not for me. And till the ones I would be waiting for are introduced may take years - if happening ever.
 
jlancasterd

jlancasterd

Active member
Thorkil said:
I do have a question: If one should choose betwen the Z7 45Mp and the Z6 with 24Mp, which one would you go for?, if:
we don't take the money question in account

best thorkil
Click to expand...
I went to a Z presentation at Cambrian Photography in Colwyn Bay last Thursday and was able to handle a Z7 with the 24-70 f4. I was very impressed with the solid feel of the camera and its handling characteristics, but especially by the light weight compared with my D5 and D850. Being now closer to 80 than 70 and not nearly so fit as I used to be, the weight of the D5 is beginning to tell during extended shoots, and it has been getting much less use recently than the 850.

I have therefore ordered a Z6 with the 24-70 and an FTZ adapter, which will replace my D5 for low light work. I will hang on to the 850 for the time being, for use when I want the best possible resolution in an image (there's an awful lot of fine lining on some steam locomotives!), but its replacement by a Z7 will be on the cards if the FTZ works well with my Sigma Art lenses and Irix 14mm.
 
S

SrMphoto

Well-known member
A nice video "preview" of Z7: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bcgbtsluVw

It is based on hands-on usage (the author got a loaner from Nikon) and is filmed outdoors.

Two issues with that video:
- The video has a small sign Werbesendung (advertisement), but it does not feel like an advertisement, rather like a nice early preview.
- The video is in German, not sure how well the auto-translate of auto-generated subtitles work :).

New details are discussed in the video. To my great satisfaction, it seems that self-timer is reset every time you turn the camera on/off. The reviewer did not like it, though.
 
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