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Nikon mirrorless ?

T

Thorkil

Well-known member
(just a tiny PS...while I have (and perhaps we all have) followed the Sony-fun thread for years, I have /we all have (should anyone be in fear of doubt) seen how good pictures Sony cameras are able to do,
so lets state, there's no doubt about that..so I guess the necessity of stating this as a sort of new and surprising Sony campaign are really minor - and I guess the present Nikon user / interested people
are not responsible for any claim that Sony's are not able to take good picture - but it can't intimidate that, for Nikon-interested people, this is what we have been waiting for in several years, and all what I see
of serious first-reviews are just confirming the quality of this to me - so we don't need the "look at my Sony camera" - shouting, while we have been seeing all the Sony-pictures and -cameras for years now (and again, yes, they are still very good) - but we have still been waiting though...and for these/us people it look like the waiting time have been rewarding - and the minor fault-bragging seems to be of unimportant size - and if not, I guess there are still free choices for everybody on all shelves (and for Sony users to continue to be happy) to choose what one else would love to like)
 
pegelli

pegelli

Well-known member
Thorkil said:
snip - so we don't need the "look at my Sony camera" - shouting, while we have been seeing all the Sony-pictures and -cameras for years now (and again, yes, they are still very good) -
Click to expand...
A few remarks:

1:
What else do you expect in a thread where the article linked in the first post immediately claims it has better ergonomics than a Sony camera and the 4th post immediately starts pointing out the mistakes Sony made that this new Nikon might fill.

2:
Most Sony and other mirrorless shooters that posted in this thread (and there are many) have stated they want this new Nikon mirrorless to be a success. Moreover even critics of this new Z-line have generally been polite and non-inflammatory.

3:
Isn't it logical that if a new camera is announced that claims to be a ground breaking benchmark in mirrorless design it will get compared to other market offerings, especially in this case where the claims are a bit "over the top". Also the former bashers of the other brands of mirrorless are now praising this new Nikon which has more or less the same attributes as the others, so I think this is just a normal reaction after what happened in the past.


Don't get me wrong, I still hope this Nikon will be a success and that everybody who buys one will make and share many good pictures with it on this forum, but pls. don't play victim of the discussion here, it's only logical that these comparisons are happening and the other brand shooters aren't even the ones who started it.

In the end it's just a camera which is way less important than the pictures made with it.
 
T

Thorkil

Well-known member
Pegelli, well, its not a matter of feeling victim-like (which I don't feel), its just a matter of it's being rather exhausting in this Nikon thread every third second hearing about the splendid Sony cameras ability's...I guess a lot of us target viewers...don't care at all,
else we would have had the splendid Sony's already, while we sort of are being aware of its existence. But I guess its a normal and commen facebook-education-trend - being heavily insulted. So I shouldn't complain, I guess. Just pull my shoulders :rolleyes:
 
pegelli

pegelli

Well-known member
Thorkil said:
Pegelli, well, its not a matter of feeling victim-like (which I don't feel), its just a matter of it's being rather exhausting in this Nikon thread every third second hearing about the splendid Sony cameras ability's...I guess a lot of us target viewers...don't care at all,
else we would have had the splendid Sony's already, while we sort of are being aware of its existence. But I guess its a normal and commen facebook-education-trend - being heavily insulted. So I shouldn't complain, I guess. Just pull my shoulders :rolleyes:
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Don't pull your shoulders Thorkil, but just think about how it all started and by whom (in this thread and in general on GetDPI)

Personally I'm totally brand agnostic and interested in every camera that makes pictures. I've owned Leica, Leicaflex, Canon, Olympus, Nikon, Minolta and Sony and in the household there's also a Panasonic. Maybe that's why I'm more into comparing because for me none of these brands are "perfect" enough to do it all. I just take what works for me and admire the results of what any camera can achieve in hands of others that know how to use it well.
 
Jorgen Udvang

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
Vivek said:
who are also Nikon DSLR users.
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Most professional and enthusiast photographers are either Canon or Nikon users. Even today, they share 65% of the ILC market. So what should Nikon aim at first? Surely those who will give them the most sales.
 
pegelli

pegelli

Well-known member
Jorgen Udvang said:
Jokes aside: He stresses a very important point. This is a camera that works, and it works with all the gear that he already has. This is very, very important for many photographers.
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The he must be really glad he doesn't own any F-mount lenses which require an in-camera focus motor :)
 
pegelli

pegelli

Well-known member
Thorkil said:
shoulders down now.. :p
then there is this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tu-9HjBVbwU
only complaint: perhaps she should brush her teeth :D
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Yup, that one was linked earlier in the thread as well. Nothing against the shoot and the results, but the fact he's presenting the system as something "new and revolutionary" is what I find a bit silly. I know you hate being told how great "other cameras" are in this thread and I understand that. But I also hope you understand that most people have some reservations about the hype. It's being presented as "first and unique" which is nonsence (except for the mount and the name) and it's actually bringing down the credibility of the Z-line, which are great cameras and deserve better.
 
V

Vivek

Guest
If this is professional grade then there is a problem. Nikon themselves have said that they will come up with better things..

Jorgen Udvang said:
Most professional and enthusiast photographers are either Canon or Nikon users. Even today, they share 65% of the ILC market. So what should Nikon aim at first? Surely those who will give them the most sales.
Click to expand...
 
Jorgen Udvang

Jorgen Udvang

Subscriber Member
pegelli said:
The he must be really glad he doesn't own any F-mount lenses which require an in-camera focus motor :)
Click to expand...
I still own non AF-S lenses and use them, but Nikon startet moving away from those 20 years ago, before I even considered buying one of their cameras. I never expected them to support those lenses forever with every camera they launch. Still most of their advanced models support those lenses, but not the mirrorless ones.

Every single new ILC that is launched is mainly aimed towards the future rather than towards the past, and when it's compatible with older equipment, it's mostly compatible with equipment of the same brand. I would have been very surprised if Nikon had aimed the Z-models mainly towards users of competing camera brands, all of which have smaller customer bases except for Canon.

Sony on the other side was in a totally different situation when they launched the A7. In spite of great lenses and good camera bodies, they had a crumbling DSLR customer base and needed to attract users of other camera brands to build their customer base. Unfortunately for them, they have only partly suceeded. The 13% they have of the ILC market is hardly more than what they achieved at their best when selling DSLR bodies. If Canon and Nikon from now on manage to protect their customer base with new mirrorless models, Sony will have a very hard time growing their camera business, since there's no growth in the market as a whole.
 
pegelli

pegelli

Well-known member
Jorgen Udvang said:
I still own non AF-S lenses and use them, but Nikon startet moving away from those 20 years ago, before I even considered buying one of their cameras. I never expected them to support those lenses forever with every camera they launch. Still most of their advanced models support those lenses, but not the mirrorless ones.

Every single new ILC that is launched is mainly aimed towards the future rather than towards the past, and when it's compatible with older equipment, it's mostly compatible with equipment of the same brand. I would have been very surprised if Nikon had aimed the Z-models mainly towards users of competing camera brands, all of which have smaller customer bases except for Canon.

Sony on the other side was in a totally different situation when they launched the A7. In spite of great lenses and good camera bodies, they had a crumbling DSLR customer base and needed to attract users of other camera brands to build their customer base. Unfortunately for them, they have only partly suceeded. The 13% they have of the ILC market is hardly more than what they achieved at their best when selling DSLR bodies. If Canon and Nikon from now on manage to protect their customer base with new mirrorless models, Sony will have a very hard time growing their camera business, since there's no growth in the market as a whole.
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I think you're missing my point Jorgen, while you praise their seamless integration with all older lenses it's far from seamless in my book, no matter what type of excuses you're trying to dream up. Many Nikon users happily using these older lenses will feel left in the cold. I understand why Nikon is doing this, but just don't call it seamless when it isn't.

We'll see about the rest of your post, everybody is entitled to their own speculative thoughts. Only time will tell :angel:

My opinion is that Canon and Nikon bringing out mirrorless FF's is a good thing for all users, more choice and more competition (on both capabilities and price) and I don't think any of these three will go under. And if one of them does so be it, we will still have the choice of two other FF-mirrorless cameras (if that's what we want).
If Sony would have gone bottoms up 2 or 3 years ago we would have had none :scry:
 
Steen

Steen

Senior Subscriber Member
pegelli said:
Don't pull your shoulders Thorkil, but just think about how it all started and by whom (in this thread and in general on GetDPI) (...)
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C'mon man, be specific, who started it all (in this thread and in general on GetDPI), what is it really all about ... ?
 
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