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Thread: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

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    Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Last edited by dougpeterson; 10th September 2019 at 03:30.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    It's 2019 Doug. https://...

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by gerald.d View Post
    It's 2019 Doug. https://...
    fixed! Thanks.

    Update: temporary issue with our HTTPS version so reverted the link to http:// for now
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Price?

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pemihan View Post
    Price?
    Generally I prefer to link to the price as people tend to reference these threads for a long time and the price may change during that time. https://www.dtcommercialphoto.com/product/phase-one-xt/. Also note that pricing can vary by region in ways that are not a direct currency conversion of the below.

    However, we're still updating that page so in the interest of direct answers to direct questions:
    $5,990 - XT Body
    $8,990 - XT 70 HR
    $11,990 - XT 32 HR
    $11,990 - XT 23 HR

    Or $10k to add an XT and XT 32HR to an IQ4 150mp purchase.

    Keep in mind when comparing prices to similar cameras the XT includes:
    - Dovetail mount (integrated and rotates horizontal to vertical)
    - Mount for digital back (no separate adapter plate required)
    - Shutter release
    - All cables (in that no cables are required)
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Comparison of GFX 100 with 23mm to XT with Canon 24TSE via Cambo adapter:


    More at our article The Phase One XT is Smaller and Lighter than you think
    Last edited by dougpeterson; 10th September 2019 at 09:40.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Can existing lenses be adapted? As it is obviously made by Cambo they
    normaly would do that.
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by Phase V View Post
    Can existing lenses be adapted?
    Remounting into a native XT lens with X-Shutter will come mid-2020.

    If you can't wait until then (and don't want to purchase a native XT lens outright):
    - DT will offer some trade-in value for other lens mounts, toward a native XT lens
    - You could remount into a Cambo WRS mount (we can assist with that, as a Cambo dealer) since the XT accepts any WRS mount lens

    The XT only provides its full integration when using a native XT lens (since the electronic brains are actually in the X-Shutter, not the XT body itself). We're glad to help you make a decision between those two options.

    Animated GIF from our Animated Tour of the Phase One XT article showing various lenses on the XT.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Generally I prefer to link to the price as people tend to reference these threads for a long time and the price may change during that time.
    Yeah you're right about that Doug , but thanks anyway :-)

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by Pemihan View Post
    Yeah you're right about that Doug , but thanks anyway :-)
    Sure thing. Hit me with more questions; I'm fully of coffee and excitement!
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Sure thing. Hit me with more questions; I'm fully of coffee and excitement!
    IQ4 only? thats rather disappointing
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by Massive Si View Post
    IQ4 only? thats rather disappointing
    Agreed. I would have loved to have seen full compatibility with the IQ3 or even earlier.

    However:
    - The XT itself has no shutter or aperture dial; that is handled by the IQ4 interface, and adding a new interface to the IQ3 platform (introduced 2015) is probably tough.
    - The X-shutter is powered by the IQ4 via the additional pins that were added on the IQ4.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    wow a HR70 for nearly 9k which retails mounted to Arca Swiss for 3800EUR including 19%taxes. I know itís easy to get an additional 5% on that so that leaves me at 3600EUR.

    So fact is itís 3900 vs 9000 -> Phase One wants 5000US for the shutter!

    No further comments... for now.
    Christopher Hauser
    http://www.chauser.eu
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    After reading through impressive. Canít find anything on tilt swing?

    Do native XT lenses come with the ability to tilt and swing with a similar mount that Cambo uses?

    Paul C
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    O donít think there is any tilt option at all.
    Christopher Hauser
    http://www.chauser.eu

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Another thing how on earth can you leave out lenses like the 40/90 and 138?

    I get the last one. It might nearly cost 20k in XT mount.
    Christopher Hauser
    http://www.chauser.eu
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    O don’t think there is any tilt option at all.
    Arca Swiss builds their tilt in, which is unique for tech/field cameras. We love Arca bodies and suspect we will still sell quite a few.

    For the XT tilt is available via:
    - Cambo WRS TS panels
    - Canon TS lenses via Cambo adapter

    It's possible P1 can come with a TS solution for X-Shutter Rodenstock lenses. If you think this should be a priority make your voice heard on the XT Lens Prioritization survey.

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    Another thing how on earth can you leave out lenses like the 40/90 and 138?
    Other Rodenstock lenses will come. The only question is priority of release, since it includes extensive calibration mapping for the automatic lens corrections and metadata integration. Take the survey below to suggest the next priority.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post

    Do native XT lenses come with the ability to tilt and swing with a similar mount that Cambo uses?
    Currently no. But you can make your voice heard on this here: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/XTLensPrioritization.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    - Is the shift amount recorded?

    - is the shift with the 23 Ącenterfoldď free? I expect it is and thatís why itís limited to 12mm.

    - why on earth does phase one still cling to this utterly dump warranty system? On one side you claim super reliable system and on the other hand your warranty states something completely different story.... 1year... just laughable.
    Christopher Hauser
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Where can I find info on the new firmware? Doesn't seem to be anything on P1 website.

    Dave
    How glorious a greeting the sun gives the mountains! - John Muir

    davechewphotography.com

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    - Is the shift amount recorded?
    Arguments into the 24mm range (+/- 12mm in any direction) here: http://phaseonext.com/the-xt-24mm-of...possibilities/

    Shift is encoded into metadata for automatic

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    is the shift with the 23 Ącenterfoldď free? I expect it is and thatís why itís limited to 12mm.
    Our downloadable XT Raw files include a 23mm image shifted 5mm which is beyond the stated image circle. I noticed no centerfold.

    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    - why on earth does phase one still cling to this utterly dump warranty system? On one side you claim super reliable system and on the other hand your warranty states something completely different story.... 1year... just laughable.
    Warranty is 1 year if purchased separately, 5 years if purchased as a kit.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by dchew View Post
    Where can I find info on the new firmware? Doesn't seem to be anything on P1 website.

    Dave
    Will have to chat with DK. Possible it wasn't posted this morning as expected; as you can imagine, a lot of things happening simultaneously here and there .
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Considerations:

    + Lens selection: cannot understand why 90HR is missing and the new 138 or the 40mm
    + Stitching: I want to be able to stitch. Would be great if P1 relased an XT XL or at least announce one, with shift capability in all directions of up to 20mm
    + Alpa compatibility: I don't know how Alpa messed up the relationship with P1, but I would like to use XT lenses with my alpa max and not cambo
    >> Can I use them with Alpa somehow?
    + Price: The deal killer: I am willing to pay, but pricing is absurdly high, would appreciate very generous bundles and trade in offers

    Overall impressed, but also mixed feelings as stitching, missing 90HR and price remain significant concerns. And no, don't want to buy a second cambo body. Have an Alpa max.
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    Considerations:

    + Lens selection: cannot understand why 90HR is missing and the new 138 or the 40mm
    + Stitching: I want to be able to stitch. Would be great if P1 relased an XT XL or at least announce one, with shift capability in all directions of up to 20mm
    + Alpa compatibility: I don't know how Alpa messed up the relationship with P1, but I would like to use XT lenses with my alpa max and not cambo
    >> Can I use them with Alpa somehow?
    + Price: The deal killer: I am willing to pay, but pricing is absurdly high, would appreciate very generous bundles and trade in offers

    Overall impressed, but also mixed feelings as stitching, missing 90HR and price remain significant concerns. And no, don't want to buy a second cambo body. Have an Alpa max.
    And at this price point warranty should be 3y standalone, 5y as bundle. 1y / 5y is clearly holding customer hostage to drive sales.
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    I havenít been able to understand the ability of this camera to auto focus.
    Would someone address the AF issue?
    Stanley

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    What about the longer lenses, 90mm HRSW, 180mm HR or older Schneiderís, 120mm. All need a back extension on Cambo or Arca.

    Will the XT accommodate the longer glass? Will it have a back extension?

    No tilt or swing, surprised me greatly, I use tilt in most of my wides, and it can make a big difference.

    Love the new shutter, but cost of each lens mount in the 4.5K range seems excessive, but I guess there is market there always is.

    Ability to maybe use the Schneiderís is an interesting point, but again no tilt or swing.

    How ironic, now there is exposure bracketing, but with frame averaging, when it can be used (no wind), one shot will often work.



    Paul C

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by stngoldberg View Post
    I haven’t been able to understand the ability of this camera to auto focus.
    Would someone address the AF issue?
    Stanley
    Manual focus only.

    Tools for focusing:
    - Review at 100%
    - Live view focus mask
    - Live view at 100%
    - Distance and Hyperfocal markings on the DT HPF Ring: Suggested Accessories for the Phase One XT - Phase One XT
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    If you use the Cambo WRS lens panels, for tilt and swing, wonít you lose the XT X shutter? Or can that be used in combination?

    Paul C

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Also a bit sad to see a marketing ploy with the 24mm used for shift. By default that implies 24mm in any direction as that is the standard for any current camera on the market. Note Arca listed 15mm for theirs Cambo 20mm for theirs. Not 40mm and 30mm.

    Just come on out and say 12mm max in any direction. And give your legitimate reasons to limit this to 12mm.

    Paul C

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    What about any need for an LCC exposure for the wide lenses
    Stanley

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Do I understand correctly, comparing the XT to WRS that the tradeoffs are:
    1. Greater shift with WRS
    2. Tilt with WRS, no tilt with XT
    3. Integrated shutter with XT, manual shutter with WRS
    4. XT records shift position

    My perspective: 4x5 view camera user, Leica S user.

    Regards,
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    Best regards,
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    And at this price point warranty should be 3y standalone, 5y as bundle. 1y / 5y is clearly holding customer hostage to drive sales.
    Agreed! Speak with your dealer; they should have creative solutions for you here. At least we (DT) do.

    Notably the XT itself is a metal plate with a shutter release and two encoders; while anything can break, I do not expect a lot of warranty repairs on the body. And on the lens side the XT shutter has been tested to around 1 million captures so even if you're using the time lapse feature I suspect lens/shutter warranty repairs will be very infrequent.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    + Lens selection: cannot understand why 90HR is missing and the new 138 or the 40mm
    Only a matter of prioritization. More lenses and lens options will come. You can share your voice on this here: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/XTLensPrioritization
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Wonder how Alpa reacts, as this European alliance clearly is full-on targeted commercial assault at the previous partner:

    Alpa options:
    + Best approach: send chocolate to Copenhagen and form an "alliance" with access to the XT universe, thereby effectively giving up XT lens mount margins
    >> Relegating Alpa to body manufacturer
    + Bit more combative: Offer physical + electromechanical "bridge" form XT to Alpa bodies as alternative to the Cambo P1 XT body
    >> Not sure how this works in terms of flange distances, millimeters, etc. but the precision engineers at Seitz should be able to reverse engineer a solution to mount XT lenses in an aperture only fashion or even reverse engineer the cambo electromagnetical contacts and related protocol
    >> Announce via press release intention to provide "bridge" now to mitigate sales of Cambo equipment, upholding "tradition" of system agnostic positioning
    + War declaration: Sit down with Hassy to offer similar interconnected system, announce soon
    + Swiss approach: Do nothing and see what happens, quietly announce cambo adapter or so
    + Low ball strategy: Offer "discounts" - highly unlikely, a first to use the price lever for the former no1 player

    How will Alpa react?

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    Also a bit sad to see a marketing ploy with the 24mm used for shift. By default that implies 24mm in any direction as that is the standard for any current camera on the market. Note Arca listed 15mm for theirs Cambo 20mm for theirs. Not 40mm and 30mm.

    Just come on out and say 12mm max in any direction. And give your legitimate reasons to limit this to 12mm.

    Paul C
    No marketing ploy intended. Arca, Cambo, and Alpa have all, in various publications, used either unidirectional or bidirectional range.

    If you see a place you find our write up misleading or confusion please post here or email me and I'll very gladly correct it.

    We cover the XT movement, where it's limiting, and where it's not limiting, here: http://phaseonext.com/the-xt-24mm-of...possibilities/
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Just because I am not sure it is mentioned - LCC is gone, correct? So I setup the 32mm, shift a bit around, shoot, the raw file has no color cast and LCC is applied directly? In camera or via capture one? Does the profiling also contain falloff? Can I shift 5mm up and 3mm to the side at the same time with capture one having a profile for all combinations of shifts in both directions per lens??

    If so this would be a significant advantage to Alpa.

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    We can agree to disagree.

    I am very familiar with Cambo and Arca and both clearly state 20mm or 15mm total shift.

    Never have seen either refer to 30mm of shift (Arca RM3DI) it Cambo WRS1600 20mm of shift.

    Paul C

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    LCC is applied directly?

    My understanding, based on discussions and photographs posted, that the backside-illuminated sensor used in the IQ4 does not (generally) require LCC compensation. This is a general characteristic/advantage of a BSI sensor.

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    We can agree to disagree.
    I mean, the first line of the relevant article is "The Phase One XT provides 12mm of movement in any direction*, for a total range of 24mm of rise/fall and 24mm of shift left/right. "

    But again, if you find a place where it's not immediately clear what movement is provided please link to it or email me a link and I'll update to make sure it's clear.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDude View Post
    My understanding, based on discussions and photographs posted, that the backside-illuminated sensor used in the IQ4 does not (generally) require LCC compensation. This is a general characteristic/advantage of a BSI sensor.
    My understanding is it is still required, but a lot less dramatic with the new sensor to the point that even Schneider wide-angles such as the 43 can be used again.

    On XT my understanding is that it is now solved via software and tech cam communicating the shift positions.

    But not sure this is the case? Besides the shutter this would be a significant differentiator.

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Comparison of GFX 100 with 23mm to XT with 23mm:


    More at our article The Phase One XT is Smaller and Lighter than you think
    So why are you showing the gfx100 with a canon ts24 + a cambo adapter ? The GF23 would be shorter...

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    would be a significant differentiator.
    If done automatically, good way to handle not any residual color casts, but also vignetting, and possible dust spots.

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by Frederic View Post
    So why are you showing the gfx100 with a canon ts24 + a cambo adapter ? The GF23 would be shorter...
    Possibly because you can't shift with the 23mm GF, and they are going for similar functionality? Just guessing...

    Curious to hear about the LCC situation. My understanding with the IQ4 is that LCC's may not be as necessary any more but they still can be useful. Shift-encoded metadata and capture one inside the IQ4 should be able to accomplish this, no?

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Can anyone confirm if a new firmware was releases for the IQ4 and if so what new features or fixes are?

    Phase ones site is still showing feature update 4 from 2017 sept.

    Paul C

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by Frederic View Post
    So why are you showing the gfx100 with a canon ts24 + a cambo adapter ? The GF23 would be shorter...
    All such comparisons are fraught. But your wish is my command .



    XT is still smaller on all three dimensions and weight. Shorter, Svelter, Shallower, Lighter.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul2660 View Post
    Can anyone confirm if a new firmware was releases for the IQ4 and if so what new features or fixes are?

    Phase ones site is still showing feature update 4 from 2017 sept.

    Paul C
    You can read about the new firmware here:
    https://www.dtcommercialphoto.com/new-iq-firmware/

    NOTE: As of 10am ET September 10, 2019 the new firmware has not yet been posted. We are waiting to hear if it was officially delayed or is still forthcoming immediately.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Spinnler View Post
    My understanding is it is still required, but a lot less dramatic with the new sensor to the point that even Schneider wide-angles such as the 43 can be used again.

    On XT my understanding is that it is now solved via software and tech cam communicating the shift positions.

    But not sure this is the case? Besides the shutter this would be a significant differentiator.
    Today: The XT encodes the movement in metadata and C1 suggests the closest matching LCC from your library of presets.

    Future: I fully expect the LCC to just be handled automagically in the same way the dark frame is handled automatically on the IQ4.

    Always: The amount of color cast, even without LCC, is darn low on the IQ4 sensor, to the point of being irrelevant for many lens/movement/user combinations.
    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    Shorter, Svelter, Shallower, Lighter.
    And perhaps more important, better balanced!

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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDude View Post
    And perhaps more important, better balanced!
    I also really dig the integrated rotating dovetail since I shoot vertically so often.

    Doug Peterson , Digital Transitions | Email
    Dealer for: Phase One, Mamiya Leaf, Arca-Swiss, Cambo, Eizo, Profoto
    Office: 877.367.8537. Cell: 740.707.2183
    Thanks 1 Member(s) thanked for this post
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    Re: Phase One XT: The First Modern Field Camera (and X-Shutter and new firmware)

    Quote Originally Posted by dougpeterson View Post
    You can read about the new firmware here:
    https://www.dtcommercialphoto.com/new-iq-firmware/

    NOTE: As of 10am ET September 10, 2019 the new firmware has not yet been posted. We are waiting to hear if it was officially delayed or is still forthcoming immediately.
    Doug,
    Link doesn't work.

    Dave
    How glorious a greeting the sun gives the mountains! - John Muir

    davechewphotography.com

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