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Thread: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

  1. #51
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Congratulations Jack.

    Enjoy your camera in good health and good light.
    koffee & kamera
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    Senior Member KeithL's Avatar
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    I'm now committed to this system having bought two Z7 bodies and the 14-30, 35, 50 and 85 lenses, all excellent.

    I chose the Z7 over the Z6 for a number of reasons including having the extra resolution rather than not, the lack of an AA filter and the option of ISO 50.

    Very positive feelings towards the system so far although I would like to have the option to use the 40mm compact sooner rather than later and hope it will be f/2 rather than f/2.8. I'll be using the system more intensively over the next few months including face/eye detect and will report back further.
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  3. #53
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Well my "kit" arrived. Totally DOA. Nothing, nada, zip. Charger won't light up, cam won't activate. Even with cam on USB, nada. Screw this, I am done. And of course B&H is now closed until Sunday. Frigging fark! It's all packaged up ready for total return. Screw this. I know it sounds stupid, but it seems almost as if the powers that be don't want me to go this route. Time for me to start looking more seriously for a Fuji...
    Last edited by Jack; 10th January 2020 at 15:19.
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Well my "kit" arrived. Totally DOA. Nothing, nada, zip. Charger won't light up, cam won't activate. Even with cam on USB, nada. Screw this, I am done. And of course B&H is now closed until Sunday. Frigging fark! It's all packaged up ready for total return. Screw this, back to my iPhone.
    Have you tried with another battery?

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Have you tried with another battery?
    Stellar idea, but I only got 1 battery with the cam and don't have any others. Nor do I know anybody nearby who would have one. I suspect that is the issue, but then why ship a camera with a totally DOA battery in the first place? The whole experience is irritating to say the least, and has had the effect of totally turning me off to a Z cam solution...
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Stellar idea, but I only got 1 battery with the cam and don't have any others. Nor do I know anybody nearby who would have one. I suspect that is the issue, but then why ship a camera with a totally DOA battery in the first place? The whole experience is irritating to say the least, and has had the effect of totally turning me off to a Z cam solution...
    He he... I know that feeling. Maybe it wasn't meant to be... but I live in Asia where people believe in things like that

  7. #57
    Senior Member Darin Marcus's Avatar
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    ... I only got 1 battery with the cam and don't have any others. Nor do I know anybody nearby who would have one...
    Have you already sold the D810?

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    Sr. Administrator Jack's Avatar
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Darin Marcus View Post
    Have you already sold the D810?
    Yes.
    Jack
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Can you get an RMA even if B&H is closed? Seems like it might be an automated process if I remember correctly

  10. #60
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Sh*t and double sh*t.
    Don’t blame you Jack...awful feeling.

    Wish you get a camera u like n works for
    You.

    Best.

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Well my "kit" arrived. Totally DOA. Nothing, nada, zip. Charger won't light up, cam won't activate. Even with cam on USB, nada. Screw this, I am done. And of course B&H is now closed until Sunday. Frigging fark! It's all packaged up ready for total return. Screw this. I know it sounds stupid, but it seems almost as if the powers that be don't want me to go this route. Time for me to start looking more seriously for a Fuji...
    Sorry to hear that. You need to have a battery in the camera when connecting the camera to power via USB, otherwise, it does not power on. Z cameras use more battery than Nikon's DSLRs. It would have been wise to order at least one spare battery with the camera.

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Stellar idea, but I only got 1 battery with the cam and don't have any others. Nor do I know anybody nearby who would have one. I suspect that is the issue, but then why ship a camera with a totally DOA battery in the first place? The whole experience is irritating to say the least, and has had the effect of totally turning me off to a Z cam solution...
    All three Nikon Z 7 that I bought (had to return one because of broken IBIS) came with slightly charged batteries. Are you turned off from the brand or from the seller?

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Well my "kit" arrived. Totally DOA. Nothing, nada, zip. Charger won't light up, cam won't activate. Even with cam on USB, nada. Screw this, I am done. And of course B&H is now closed until Sunday. Frigging fark! It's all packaged up ready for total return. Screw this. I know it sounds stupid, but it seems almost as if the powers that be don't want me to go this route. Time for me to start looking more seriously for a Fuji...
    Jack,

    may the power be with you

    Seriously, this is really s... - but I would not blame it on Nikon.

    But on the opposite you cannot be wrong with Fuji either

    Peter

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    As they say "$h.t happens", even though the probability is low it $.cks when it happens.

    Given the low probability of these problems happening I would just try again and not write it off based on one isolated incident, but that's probably just me.

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    That sucks!

    I certainly understand your frustration, but I'd vent at the vendor rather than the manufacturer.

    Anyway, here's good luck to you.

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Stellar idea, but I only got 1 battery with the cam and don't have any others. Nor do I know anybody nearby who would have one. I suspect that is the issue, but then why ship a camera with a totally DOA battery in the first place? The whole experience is irritating to say the least, and has had the effect of totally turning me off to a Z cam solution...
    give it another chance Jack, and you won't regret...

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Understand the frustration, but like its said above, give it another chance.

    I bought one Z6 last year, loved the files so much bought another one.
    Once of the best I have ver used.
    Sahota R
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    First off, if I had to pick an ideal one body that could tackle most imaging jobs, it would be hands-down the D850, and then whatever lenses to suit whatever project.

    However, my needs are pretty specific. Moreover, they require the ability to adapt a wide variety of artistic lenses in a variety of mounts -- hence I am restricted to mirrorless. Which is why the whole decision matrix between Z6/7 and Fuji GFX...

    I do hope to look at a used GFX kit here in the next day or two. Stay tuned
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Update. I looked at a GFX kit. Was very impressed, but overall it is just too large for my liking. So I am now at sort of an impasse -- which is okay, I'm just going to sit without anything and keep my powder dry until I absolutely have to have a camera. At that time, I suspect I will probably go with a Z7 and the lenses I wanted.
    Jack
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Update. I looked at a GFX kit. Was very impressed, but overall it is just too large for my liking. So I am now at sort of an impasse -- which is okay, I'm just going to sit without anything and keep my powder dry until I absolutely have to have a camera. At that time, I suspect I will probably go with a Z7 and the lenses I wanted.
    Sounds like a wise decision. Be aware though that while the Z bodies are more compact and a bit lighter than their DSLR counterparts, the lenses are mostly heavier. They are better, but heavier, so the weight savings mostly turn to dust once you start to add lenses. Battery life is obviously shorter too, but that might not be as important with your kind of photography.

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Well, I wouldn’t call the 50 1.8 or the 24-70 f4 heavier. Those are the two I have. Now anything heavier than either of those, I want no part of because for me the whole point of this exercise was to lose the weight of the F system.

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    Senior Member DougDolde's Avatar
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    If I wouldn't lose a lot trading the D850, which I would, I would consider the Sony A7R IV and a few Batis primes.

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by JohnBrew View Post
    Well, I wouldn’t call the 50 1.8 or the 24-70 f4 heavier. Those are the two I have. Now anything heavier than either of those, I want no part of because for me the whole point of this exercise was to lose the weight of the F system.
    Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 AF-S, 185g, $220
    Nikkor 50mm f/1.4 AF-S, 280g, $450
    Nikkor 50mm f/1.8 S, 415g, $600

    Nikkor 85mm f/1.8 AF-S, 350g, $480
    Nikkor 85mm f/1.4 AF-S, 600g, $1,600
    Nikkor 85mm f/1.8 S, 470g, $800


    The 24-70mm f/4 doesn't have an F-mount equivalent, but it's 500g vs. the much longer reaching 24-120mm f/4 at 710g. They both cost around a thousand dollars.

    I don't doubt for a second that the Z-mount lenses are better than the F-mount equivalents, but who will see the difference other than photographers? What will make a difference is that additional, lightweight F-mount lens that I can afford to buy because I didn't spend my money on expensive mirrorless lenses.

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    Workshop Member ptomsu's Avatar
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Sounds like a wise decision. Be aware though that while the Z bodies are more compact and a bit lighter than their DSLR counterparts, the lenses are mostly heavier. They are better, but heavier, so the weight savings mostly turn to dust once you start to add lenses. Battery life is obviously shorter too, but that might not be as important with your kind of photography.
    Depends on the lenses - for example the S 2.8/24-70 is definitely smaller and lighter than all the F mount counterparts. As is the S 2.8/70-200 although the difference is not as huge with that lens.

    Battery life while shorter is still mostly a non issue.

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Update. I looked at a GFX kit. Was very impressed, but overall it is just too large for my liking. So I am now at sort of an impasse -- which is okay, I'm just going to sit without anything and keep my powder dry until I absolutely have to have a camera. At that time, I suspect I will probably go with a Z7 and the lenses I wanted.
    Interesting that you came to this conclusion. Is pretty much the same for me as well, any GFX kit while tempting and great quality is just to limiting for me when it comes to size and weight and speed.

    The Z7 is IMO currently one of the sweet spots in mirrorless FF (especially if one hesitates to go down the Sony route, or also Panasonic or Canon). If I would get into FF mirrorless now the Z7 would be my choice. I was almost pulling the trigger on a Z7 kit with all the cash backs here in Europe, what kept me off was the situation with XQD and CFExpress at least here in Europe and not all CFExpress cards are supported yet by Nikon.

    XQD prices are artificially kept high by Sony, so the logical choice of cards would be CFExpress (much more future proof) but the price for one 128G CFExpress card is currently around €280.- that is €560.- for 2 cards I would need and that is still too cheap. So I am waiting till prices come down, a newer Z model (Z8) gets announced that supports CFExpress from the start and also has a faster processor to speed up all things especially AF and Eye AF.

    Good to be in a position where I can wait
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by ptomsu View Post
    Depends on the lenses - for example the S 2.8/24-70 is definitely smaller and lighter than all the F mount counterparts. As is the S 2.8/70-200 although the difference is not as huge with that lens.

    Battery life while shorter is still mostly a non issue.
    Some F-mount lenses are lighter, some Z-mount lenses are lighter. See my comparison at the D780 thread.

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    Some F-mount lenses are lighter, some Z-mount lenses are lighter. See my comparison at the D780 thread.
    Agree, but you should not draw any general conclusions for that matter. I agree that the 1.8 S lenses are unusually large and heavy, but especially the Nikkor 2.8 S lenses so far show what is possible. Maybe not as much as we expected.

    But then - Canon RF 2.8/70-200 got significantly smaller and also much lighter - actually a reason (for me) to consider Canon as soon as the new R replacement camera is launched later this year.

    As I said great time now for me as I am open to go any mirrorless system (Sony, Nikon, Canon, Fuji) since I am no longer invested in anything like m43. Maybe it finally paid off that I did not buy anything photogear over the last 3 years

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    $2,500 for Z7 with lens? Just do it:

    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...mera_body.html

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jorgen Udvang View Post
    $2,500 for Z7 with lens? Just do it:

    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...mera_body.html
    Unfortunately I don't live in the US but here in Europe (Austria) the price is still € 3100.-

    F--- these companies like Nikon for these pricing strategies

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    $2500 for the refurb Z7 with 24-70 seems like a really good deal -- and I am considering it, at least mildly...

    But I suspect the recent "fire sale" pricing is in advance of the Z8 announcement -- historically all the refurbs get unloaded first, then the "new" bodies go on sale. But if the Z8 fixes a few of the Z6/7 UI warts, it may well be worth the extra $1500 or so to have that body. If it has a 3:4 capture aspect option and fixes the VF lag, those alone would be worth the extra $$$$ to me LOL.
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    $2500 for the refurb Z7 with 24-70 seems like a really good deal -- and I am considering it, at least mildly...

    But I suspect the recent "fire sale" pricing is in advance of the Z8 announcement -- historically all the refurbs get unloaded first, then the "new" bodies go on sale. But if the Z8 fixes a few of the Z6/7 UI warts, it may well be worth the extra $1500 or so to have that body. If it has a 3:4 capture aspect option and fixes the VF lag, those alone would be worth the extra $$$$ to me LOL.
    Could not agree more! And I think the Z8 will arrive sooner than later

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Thats a great price for the Z7 and 24-70. Is that the F2.8 24-70 or F4? Just curious.

    The next pro models seems to be the Z9, as there have been "distant" rumors about the Z9 coming, with the 60MP chip that Sony has now in their Latest AR7 camera.
    The last I read about it was about 1 month ago, as folks were thinking Nikon would mention it at Vegas CES, but apparently did not.

    Only rumor is development starts in 2nd 2020, which would odds are mean shipping in 2021?

    The EVF on the Z7 for me is still pretty impressive, in regards to lag, I rarely notice it even in panning shots for (mainly trains). I will see it in bird work, with smaller birds, but I have yet to see any EVF that can handle the movements of birds. The GFX lag, for me is much more noticeable. Especially on the GFX100, that I have used a couple of times.

    Paul C

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Paul, it is the f4 lens in the refurb "kit" ---
    Jack
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    I've owned/used the D850,D800,D810,Z6 and Z7. I simply love the Z7 best. It has many more useful features imo, and is a rugged camera in general...so far. The EVF magnification is an amazing tool that lets you shoot without having to look at images on an LCD in bright ambient conditions. The dynamic range is impressive! The ability to crop is incredibly useful too. For adapting other lenses nothing beats the Z7, again, my opinion. Try shooting a Nikon 50mm 1.2 on a DSLR at 1.2. I've used the Z7 for many professional shoots and find it's the most intuitive Nikon I've used to date. I do, keeping hitting the exposure comp. button when going for the ISO, but that's user error. As for lenses, the S 50mm 1.8S is the best general purpose lens I've ever used...period. For some reason, I don't bond with the S 85mm 1.8S. It's good, but lacks character, and for me that's more important than resolution. Using the FTZ with a 105mm f2.5 AI-s, 105mm 1.4, and a Z6 with a Nikkor 50mm 1.2, have been flawless. If you have a lot of other brand lenses, especially M, LTM or F mount, nothing comes close to the Z series for usability. Yes, I would like two cards, but the XQD is a robust, stable media that's lighting fast on read/write speeds at full RAW. I do shoot using both RAW and JPG and only use one card for one camera and always format "in camera". I would have gone for the Z50 as a b/u camera, but the different batteries made me consider the Z6 instead. I'm primarily a stills shooter, but wouldn't hesitate to use the Z series for professional video.
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by jdphoto View Post
    I've owned/used the D850,D800,D810,Z6 and Z7. I simply love the Z7 best. It has many more useful features imo, and is a rugged camera in general...so far. The EVF magnification is an amazing tool that lets you shoot without having to look at images on an LCD in bright ambient conditions. The dynamic range is impressive! The ability to crop is incredibly useful too. For adapting other lenses nothing beats the Z7, again, my opinion. Try shooting a Nikon 50mm 1.2 on a DSLR at 1.2. I've used the Z7 for many professional shoots and find it's the most intuitive Nikon I've used to date. I do, keeping hitting the exposure comp. button when going for the ISO, but that's user error. As for lenses, the S 50mm 1.8S is the best general purpose lens I've ever used...period. For some reason, I don't bond with the S 85mm 1.8S. It's good, but lacks character, and for me that's more important than resolution. Using the FTZ with a 105mm f2.5 AI-s, 105mm 1.4, and a Z6 with a Nikkor 50mm 1.2, have been flawless. If you have a lot of other brand lenses, especially M, LTM or F mount, nothing comes close to the Z series for usability. Yes, I would like two cards, but the XQD is a robust, stable media that's lighting fast on read/write speeds at full RAW. I do shoot using both RAW and JPG and only use one card for one camera and always format "in camera". I would have gone for the Z50 as a b/u camera, but the different batteries made me consider the Z6 instead. I'm primarily a stills shooter, but wouldn't hesitate to use the Z series for professional video.
    I second your view, JD

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Currently agonizing over if 24MP cropped is enough for what I do
    If you are talking about a print output, then the crop does not matter. If you are printing to the full width of your paper with the short dimension of your 3:2 file, then cropping the file to 4:3 or 1:1 does not change anything in terms of image size/quality. Those will not be perceived as different in quality as the final DPI stays the same--if that makes sense.

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Shashin View Post
    If you are talking about a print output, then the crop does not matter. If you are printing to the full width of your paper with the short dimension of your 3:2 file, then cropping the file to 4:3 or 1:1 does not change anything in terms of image size/quality. Those will not be perceived as different in quality as the final DPI stays the same--if that makes sense.
    Totally understand. It is more for me that a few of the lenses I'll be using for a lot of this work likely won't resolve past 24MP anyway --actually may not resolve 24 to begin with-- so the extra pixels become mostly irrelevant for them. However they seem to be highly relevant for the line of Z lenses, and I will own a few of those. Ultimately I will want 2 bodies, so the real question is do I want 2 of the same, or 2 different? Then in fact, a Z8 (assuming it fixes current Z7/6 warts) and Z7 would be more inline with my ultimate goal. Hope that clarifies.
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    I only order film and small accessories from B&H after they delivered a few camera/lenses with minimal packaging. Unique Photo has a used Z6 for less than $1500. They have a great reputation too.

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Totally understand. It is more for me that a few of the lenses I'll be using for a lot of this work likely won't resolve past 24MP anyway --actually may not resolve 24 to begin with-- so the extra pixels become mostly irrelevant for them. However they seem to be highly relevant for the line of Z lenses, and I will own a few of those. Ultimately I will want 2 bodies, so the real question is do I want 2 of the same, or 2 different? Then in fact, a Z8 (assuming it fixes current Z7/6 warts) and Z7 would be more inline with my ultimate goal. Hope that clarifies.
    Since it is not my money...

    I am sure I am not going to say anything you have not considered, but I would go with two of that same as I usually work with portfolios/series of images. That way I can be sure of consistency among shots and I don't have to worry about having the "right" lens on the "right" body. Personally speaking, the lower resolution camera might go unused unless it had some clear advantage in certain situations. But having said that, I found my RX-1 a perfect companion to my Pentax 645D, so you should never believe anything I say...

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    $2500 for the refurb Z7 and zoom really is tempting. I could probably get that for my D850 and three primes. mpb.com offered $1680 for the D850 body alone. I'd have a bit less coverage than with my 20mm, 28mm, and 85mm primes so maybe not such a good idea. I do love primes over zooms. Just talked myself out of it
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Plus your primes are about 2-½ stops faster than the basic zoom and 1-½ faster than the primo zoom. But those primes will also work just fine on the Z7 with FTZ adaptor
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    I mostly find it more satisying shooting with primes. The flexibility I lose not being able to zoom in or out I re-gain by having more apertures to choose from and not least knowing that I have the sharpest knife in the drawer with the most beautiful bokeh. If I'm going to kill someone, I'll choose the dagger not the Swiss Army Knife.

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack View Post
    Plus your primes are about 2-½ stops faster than the basic zoom and 1-½ faster than the primo zoom. But those primes will also work just fine on the Z7 with FTZ adaptor
    t would seem that best results on the Z7 would be obtained using dedicated Z glass and not older F series lenses as many cannot resolve past 36mp....refer to https://photographylife.com/nikon-dslr-resolution

    Curious what the experience of other is.

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    I was of the opinion that my long f-glass needed focus adjustment, but now not so sure...
    I did try the focus adjustment in-camera ala D810, but it was all over the map. Perhaps some of us are experiencing adapter sample variation? I mean, hell I don’t know, but I don’t understand it either.

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by Swissblad View Post
    t would seem that best results on the Z7 would be obtained using dedicated Z glass and not older F series lenses as many cannot resolve past 36mp....refer to https://photographylife.com/nikon-dslr-resolution

    Curious what the experience of other is.
    I'm not a specialist but I'm reading conflicting information on a "hard limit" of the resolving power of lenses vs. sensor resolution.

    The article linked above is talking about a real hard limit for a lens, like hitting a brick wall above which the resolution doesn't increase with increased MP count.

    While there is also information around that claims (unless your lens is made from a coke bottle bottom) that higher MP sensors will always show more detail as lower MP sensors (both of the same size) although the gain in resolution might be less than the ratio of the theoretical linear resolution of the two sensors.

    Is there anybody who can shed some light on these two conflicting theories (or statements)?

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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    @John Brew: As I understand it, since the Z cams focus off the sensor, your AF-S/G/P/E should all focus pretty darn well out of the gate. Screw drive AF-D not so much.

    Re lens limit. Once the sensor resolves better than the lens you technically gain nothing re pure resolution. However, at that same time you do gain over-sampling from the extra pixels, and that can effectively add back resolution through interpolation. While not exactly real detail, given the nature of how it's achieved, that interpolation is going to be very, very close to what was actually there in reality. At worst, it can give the impression of more detail...

    I would add that very few lenses are going to resolve 50MP on a FF sensor, including the best Zeiss or Leica or even Nikon glass. But the added freedom of lens design from the shorter flange focal of the Z mount, should at least theoretically allow Nikon to design better lenses than we had in the past, especially at the 50mm and wider end; and I think that's already been shown to us with the 50 and 35 Z primes...
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    I'm not a specialist but I'm reading conflicting information on a "hard limit" of the resolving power of lenses vs. sensor resolution.

    The article linked above is talking about a real hard limit for a lens, like hitting a brick wall above which the resolution doesn't increase with increased MP count.

    While there is also information around that claims (unless your lens is made from a coke bottle bottom) that higher MP sensors will always show more detail as lower MP sensors (both of the same size) although the gain in resolution might be less than the ratio of the theoretical linear resolution of the two sensors.

    Is there anybody who can shed some light on these two conflicting theories (or statements)?
    My understanding, and I'll remove the math:

    The lens blurs "reality" some amount.

    Sensor sampling blurs the lens image some amount.

    The final image is the combination of those two blurrings. Making either one smaller improves the resolution of the final image. But if the lens blurs 1000 times as much as sensor A, then the possible improvement by going to higher resolution sensors is limited to 0.1%. It will ALWAYS get better, but it may be imperceptible.

    So for each lens, there is an ideal resolution which can be approached, but never matched or exceeded by going to higher MP counts. Nevertheless, increasing the MP count always gets you closer to that limit.

    Disclaimer: I'm a mathematician, not an optical systems designer or tester. My answer is theoretical, but I believe it is sound.

    Matt

    (The Nyquist theorem doesn't apply because finite pixel size still convolves the point measurements with the pixel shape. If someone wants to hit me with the fact that a pixel width of the Planck length will cause new particles to spring out of the vacuum, I'll qualify my statements above to sensors of less than a quadrillion pixels. A one micron pitch FF sensor would have just under a billion pixels, so we're good up to there. )
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    I did a little test with my "worst" lens, a very old Meyer Görlitz Trioplan 50/2.8 and used it wide open. Given the age and quality of this lens I suspect it falls in the category that doesn't even resolve 24 MP so I wanted to see the difference at the same output size from two sensors.

    Then I shot a test card from about 2 meter with the A7ii (24 MP) and the A7Rii (42 MP), Sorry I don't have the Z6 and Z7 but I think the results will look very similar.

    Imported both shots in Lightroom, started pixel peeping, enlarged the 24 MP shot 4 times and the 42 MP shot 3 times so the output size is almost equal.
    Sharpening and both noise reduction sliders at 0

    Here's the result:



    My conclusion is that the higher MP sensor seems to be able to draw more detail from this "near coke bottle bottom" lens which is in line with the theoretical story by MGrayson above. I'd be open to differing opinions or doing the test differently
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    Re: Z6 or Z7 -- or both ???

    Quote Originally Posted by pegelli View Post
    I did a little test with my "worst" lens, a very old Meyer Görlitz Trioplan 50/2.8 and used it wide open. Given the age and quality of this lens I suspect it falls in the category that doesn't even resolve 24 MP so I wanted to see the difference at the same output size from two sensors.

    Then I shot a test card from about 2 meter with the A7ii (24 MP) and the A7Rii (42 MP), Sorry I don't have the Z6 and Z7 but I think the results will look very similar.

    Imported both shots in Lightroom, started pixel peeping, enlarged the 24 MP shot 4 times and the 42 MP shot 3 times so the output size is almost equal.
    Sharpening and both noise reduction sliders at 0

    Here's the result:



    My conclusion is that the higher MP sensor seems to be able to draw more detail from this "near coke bottle bottom" lens which is in line with the theoretical story by MGrayson above. I'd be open to differing opinions or doing the test differently
    And that's due to the oversampling effect I was discussing above. Matt, I do not believe this is in direct conflict with your comments, but oversampling in digital has a tangible benefit if sampled at Nyquist (2x base resolution) or above. Without going into the math, we basically impart an interpolated artifact at the midpoint (½ Nyquist); and voila, more perceived resolution... In Pegelli's example, it was enough to clarify the data accurately on the 6 to 7 line pairs -- though note we have a hint of a false artifact about ¾ way up that line pair progression in a thicker or darker line. I would further guess that the 7-8 line pairs and above are below Nyquist for that sensor. Would a 200MP sensor generate realistic detail between the 7-8 pairs? I have no idea, but suspect they might, though probably not as accurately as they did for 6-7...
    Jack
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