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Fun with the Hasselblad 907x

spb

Well-known member
Actually, for reasons that have never really made sense to me, Hasselblad does not support auto ISO in manual mode. So this isn’t an option.
Oops I had not noticed that, so thank you for the correction!
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
It's a bug. The indication resets to M on the top panel, but the metering function is as it says in the selection panel. Just tested with my 907x SE, does the same thing.

PS: I sent an email to Hasselblad Support with a bug report. You should likely do that as well.
Hasselblad Support has confirmed that this bug is reproducible on their cameras too. It's been acknowledged as a confirmed bug and put on the fixit list. :D

G
 

Joe Colson

Well-known member
Actually, for reasons that have never really made sense to me, Hasselblad does not support auto ISO in manual mode. So this isn’t an option.

So, if one wants auto ISO and wants to shoot exclusively at f/4 the best choice is to put it in aperture priority, set it to f/4, and set the appropriate minimum shutter speed for your lens. You won’t use the button at all—the camera will pick shutter and ISO. Using the shift button one can force the camera to over/under expose as needed.

If you really want the main dial to control shutter speed, one can put the camera in shutter priority. But then you need to make sure you keep the shutter speed high enough that the camera doesn’t change the aperture off of f/4. Again, one can over or under expose using the shift button.
I asked support to add this into the next firmware.
Good luck. I've been requesting Auto ISO in manual mode since 2017. Hasselblad feels it would be confusing to the user. Go figure.

Joe
 
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spb

Well-known member
Good luck. I've been requesting Auto ISO in manual mode since 1997. Hasselblad feels it would be confusing to the user. Go figure.

Joe
Jeese since 1997! I hope I don't have to wait that long, I find it very useful. How come it is not confusing to the user in every other mode? I cannot figure that one out ;)
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Jeese since 1997! I hope I don't have to wait that long, I find it very useful. How come it is not confusing to the user in every other mode? I cannot figure that one out ;)
The usual explanation I've gotten in conversation with camera tech design folks is that many users expect "Manual" exposure mode to be explicit: set ISO, set aperture, set exposure time, nothing else. Set aperture, set exposure time, and let ISO vary is not really Manual mode to many users ... it's what Pentax dubbed "Time/Aperture Priority" or TA mode when the added it into the K10D model about a decade or so ago: lock time and aperture, let sensitivity vary. Many manufacturers have since incorporated it as a feature of Manual mode with AutoISO, that's all, but it's not a universally supported feature by all manufacturers.

AutoISO in exposure automation modes seems a fairly straightforward addition since AE modes have the implicit notion that the camera is taking control and varying at least one of the three mechanisms of exposure. Adding AutoISO to Manual mode makes it, semantically and functionally, not actually Manual operation: you're giving the camera leave to adjust at least one exposure parameter by itself. AutoISO behavior isn't always entirely easy to figure out either, which is why some (many) cameras have user controls for how the AutoISO function operates. It's a big stretch to consider it as essential to Manual operation.

I'm not entirely sure I disagree with Hasselblad: When I switch my camera to Manual exposure mode, I expect it to do exactly and ONLY what I set explicitly. It took me a while to get my ideas around the addition of AutoISO to Manual mode when I first encountered it, and I still find I don't use it all that often as it can be confusing and has some limitations that can sneak up on you, IMO. It's kind of like adding EV Compensation to Manual mode ... why use that instead of just setting the exposure value that you need in the first place? :)

G
 

spb

Well-known member
As I wrote to support, I don't consider it essential, just asked for it to be an option. Just like it is available in any other mode as an additional ISO choice to ISO 100-25600 (I think that is the top value). It is not essential, but could be useful for some people and certainly I would use it on occasion too.

"It's a big stretch to consider it as essential to Manual operation."
 

bythewei

Active member
As I go into my third day of owning the 45P, I can't decide which is worse - the fact that the lens autofocus is useless, or the fact that the CFVii50C's focus peaking is hopelessly inaccurate.

I encountered numerous times where the peaking shows up in out-of-focus areas during live view. Anybody encountered and/or agree with my frustrations?
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
As I go into my third day of owning the 45P, I can't decide which is worse - the fact that the lens autofocus is useless, or the fact that the CFVii50C's focus peaking is hopelessly inaccurate.

I encountered numerous times where the peaking shows up in out-of-focus areas during live view. Anybody encountered and/or agree with my frustrations?
Hmm. I don't think the AF is "useless", only a bit slow. Doesn't bother me because I don't use AF all that much anyway ... It's so easy to focus manually, I just don't see the point most of the time. AF is just a convenience to use when it works well. One thing that made the AF work better for me was to reduce the AF area to its minimum size (Settings -> Camera -> Focus :: AF Point Size: SMALL).

The focus peaking with both the 21 and 45 mm lenses is too coarse* to be useful, and its display occludes the screen too much. I turned it off and haven't turned it back on. Using the AutoZoom feature (Settings->Camera->Focus :: Focus Assist: AUTO-ZOOM), or just zooming in when needed by double-tapping the screen, is a much, much more effective manual focusing aid.

* Coarse meaning that it is too liable to show any high contrast edge as sharp, as if the gain is too high on the algorithm. It needs a way to be scaled down to a lower sensitivity so that it only picks the highest contrast edges, and the display needs to be much lighter on those edges, not the current 3-5 pixel wide line blasting most of the screen real estate and occluding any decent view of what you're looking at. I haven't tried it with longer focal lengths; it might work better with a 65 or 90 mm lens than with the 21 and 45mm.

G
 

bythewei

Active member
Exactly my point! The focus peaking is too coarse to be useful. How does the focus peaking work out for your non XCD glass though?

I'm trying to get my hands on the Novoflex Minolta MD-X1D adaptor and use my Rokkor 55mm f/1.7 which is tested and proven to work well on GFX.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Exactly my point! The focus peaking is too coarse to be useful. How does the focus peaking work out for your non XCD glass though?

I'm trying to get my hands on the Novoflex Minolta MD-X1D adaptor and use my Rokkor 55mm f/1.7 which is tested and proven to work well on GFX.
I just tried it with the Summicron-R 90mm. It works better at f/2 with this lens, modulo the 'too heavy' peaking indication lines that obliterate everything. The sensitivity is just too high at smaller apertures ... too much is considered "in focus" ... and the thickness of the peaking indication is so heavy that you can barely see the subject through the peaking lines. The fact that it only works in full view and not in magnified view makes it doubly useless... and of course in magnified view, you can turn it off and see the focus point critically and precisely.

I'm going to post a bug report/feature request on it to Hasselblad. They should either give the peaking a lower sensitivity setting or a scale of user selectable sensitivities. In either case, they should lighten up the indication to be much much finer lined. Then it will become useful.

Focus magnification is much more useful and works fine with both native and adapted lenses (although you don't get the auto function with adapted lenses).

off the subject: If you already have the 45P, I don't see why you would bother with an adapted 55mm lens. The FoV is too close to bother, for me anyway. The small crop on a 45mm lens's FoV to produce 55mm FoV is fairly trivial. The diagonal field of view is only different by about 9-10 degrees. I haven't bothered with any of my 40-60 mm lenses since I got the 45P, other than the Macro-Elmarit-R 60mm f/2.8 for its close up capability. In fact, the major reason I'm playing with adapted 90 and 135 mm lenses is to determine what focal length I really want for my third XCD focal length. I know the 90mm works for me now, I know 120 works toofrom the adapted V system 120mm; the 135 is my next experiment. :)

G
 
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bythewei

Active member
I have the Minolta 55mm f/1.7 and 100mm f/2.5 from my GFX days. Even though I had the GF 50mm f/3.5 (closest thing to 45P), I find myself using the 55mm most of the time.

I reckon it will be the same for the 907X, and if things work out, I’ll sell the 45P.

Interestingly, the Minolta X1D adaptor is really hard to find in the market! Only the Novoflex version exists and that’s an expensive one.
 

Godfrey

Well-known member
Whatever suits you. Personally, I'd sell the Minolta and keep the 45P, but that reflects my predilections ... LOL!
I have scads of other lenses in the 50mm range, some of which do cover the format well enough; I'd rather use the 45P as it performs better and gives me all the functionality of the 907x - all exposure modes, automated focus bracketing, no eshutter limitations, etc. :)

This weeks adapted lens entertainment is going to be my Leitz Elmarit-R 135mm f/2.8. A couple of quick checks seem to indicate that it covers the format beautifully even wide open, no fall off or vignetting. So I'll give it a whirl. Most of why I'm playing with these lenses is because I have them already and I'm looking to see exactly what focal length to choose for my third (and likely final) XCD lens. So far, I know that the 80-90 mm range is very appealing to me, I already know that 120 works well (using the V system Makro-Planar 120 T* as a model) and want to see what the longer focal length feels like on a walkabout.

Fun fun fun... :)

G
 

scho

Well-known member
Just received a used CF 100/3.5 Planar and since it was already dark outside my first test shot was a houseplant. Mounted the lens in the XV adapter and XH tripod ring adapter on my tripod. Shot was 25 sec at f/11 ISO 100 with the 907x/50CII. I'll see how it does in daylight later this week. Focusing was a little stiff, but otherwise lens looks good.

 

jng

Well-known member
Just received a used CF 100/3.5 Planar and since it was already dark outside my first test shot was a houseplant. Mounted the lens in the XV adapter and XH tripod ring adapter on my tripod. Shot was 25 sec at f/11 ISO 100 with the 907x/50CII. I'll see how it does in daylight later this week. Focusing was a little stiff, but otherwise lens looks good.

Looks nice! If focusing seems stiff the lubrication has probably dried out - may be time for a CLA...

John
 

djonesii

Workshop Member
As I recall Fuji solves this exact issue by allowing a menu choice in ISO settings of a range with a minimum/maximum. One of the few places a menu dive is required. Elegant way around the below issue

Dave

The usual explanation I've gotten in conversation camera tech design folks is that many users expect "Manual" exposure mode to be explicit: set ISO, set aperture, set exposure time, nothing else. Set aperture, set exposure time, and let ISO vary is not really Manual mode to many users ... it's what Pentax dubbed "Time/Aperture Priority" or TA mode when the added it into the K10D model about a decade or so ago: lock time and aperture, let sensitivity vary. Many manufacturers have since incorporated it as a feature of Manual mode with AutoISO, that's all, but it's not a universally supported feature by all manufacturers.

AutoISO in exposure automation modes seems a fairly straightforward addition since AE modes have the implicit notion that the camera is taking control and varying at least one of the three mechanisms of exposure. Adding AutoISO to Manual mode makes it, semantically and functionally, not actually Manual operation: you're giving the camera leave to adjust at least one exposure parameter by itself. AutoISO behavior isn't always entirely easy to figure out either, which is why some (many) cameras have user controls for how the AutoISO function operates. It's a big stretch to consider it as essential to Manual operation.

I'm not entirely sure I disagree with Hasselblad: When I switch my camera to Manual exposure mode, I expect it to do exactly and ONLY what I set explicitly. It took me a while to get my ideas around the addition of AutoISO to Manual mode when I first encountered it, and I still find I don't use it all that often as it can be confusing and has some limitations that can sneak up on you, IMO. It's kind of like adding EV Compensation to Manual mode ... why use that instead of just setting the exposure value that you need in the first place? :)

G
 
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